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#100867 - 08/27/12 01:18 AM vellus hair treatment
redearthling Offline
Contributor

Registered: 06/29/12
Posts: 23
I have been to 3 1hr appointments to remove my long facial vellus hair. The lady I see has 20+ years experience but she often misses hairs I think are really noticeable. This worries me as I want to make sure she gets the hairs that re-grow as well as the ones that embarrass me. I understand that often I see hairs from an angle she is not looking at me at under the magnifier, or with the same sort of light. Can anyone make any suggestions I might be able to give her to make sure she sees the hairs I want removed? I know with some re-grown hairs, they grow from a spot where I had the pinpoint scab, so it is obvious to me. I have tried marking them with mascara, but that isn't as easy as you would think, without marking other hairs around them. Thanks.

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#100868 - 08/27/12 03:16 AM Re: vellus hair treatment [Re: redearthling]
Hairadicator Offline
Top 20 Contributor

Registered: 06/07/12
Posts: 205
I have been an electrologist for over 32 years and no longer treat clients concerned about vellus hair. Vellus hair does NOT constitute a hair problem, especially if the hairs are so small your electrologist is having trouble seeing them. Chances are you have a 10x magnifier at home and worry over every little hair that is "too long." Concern over vellus hair viewed through 10x magnification is not being realistic. Peach-fuzz will look like tree trunks! Yes, you will find electrologists that will treat you, but they will not be able to satisfy or help you. Conviction and worry that the world sees you as you see yourself through 10x magnification is a problem better served through psychiatry, not permanent hair removal.


Edited by Hairadicator (08/27/12 03:16 AM)
_________________________
David Hardee, R.E.
Registered Electrologist since 1980
251-447-9500

hairzap@gmail.com

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#100869 - 08/27/12 04:20 AM Re: vellus hair treatment [Re: Hairadicator]
Barbara_CPE Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 10/19/05
Posts: 1102
Loc: Kansas
Those vellus hairs can be more difficult to see and the angle you are seeing versus the angle your electrologist sees them will be a factor on which ones are treated. With appropriate magnification and lighting your electrologist will work on as many hairs as can be treated in the length of time allotted.

You must remember that there are many many hairs in every square centimeter of your skin. It is impossible to clear vellus growth in the beginning. It takes time to get them all. One of my "tricks" to finding the one hair that bothers a client is to have additional low lighting coming from another angle. Even then, I miss that one bad hair....
_________________________
Barbara Greathouse, CPE
Kansas Licensed since 1980
Live by the 4 Agreements: Be impeccable with your word. Don't take anything personally. Don't make assumptions. Always do your best.



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#100870 - 08/27/12 05:26 AM Re: vellus hair treatment [Re: Barbara_CPE]
redearthling Offline
Contributor

Registered: 06/29/12
Posts: 23
Thanks Barbara. I might suggest the extra light. Hairadicator, these hairs are often at least a centimetre long, and are a problem to me. I am looking in a normal mirror, no magnification. As I said, looking down at my face you may not see them, but looking straight at me you most certainly can. I don't want every tiny hair removed, just the long (and they can be as long as half an inch) ones. The smaller ones I refer to are the regrowth.

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#100871 - 08/27/12 01:47 PM Re: vellus hair treatment [Re: redearthling]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3490
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
“Just get the long ones.” Oye Vey! … My Kryptonite (well, one of them).

Here’s what you must understand. These “long ones,” within the forest of noticeable “vellus hairs,” are only those hairs that have achieved their maximum growth … they are in telogen phase and are getting ready to fall out and then regrow again. So, here’s the “rub.”

ALL of those “vellus hairs” that you think look just fine will also, eventually, go into telogen phase and be one of your “just get the long ones.” The task you have set for your electrologist is near impossible … unless you are willing to have her remove all the “vellus” hairs from the area. And, this is going to take a LOT of treatment hours.

Problem is, clients with this problem are typically not willing to put in the time, because they see the problem as being an easy one. It’s NOT! Typically clients with your problem will only come in a couple times per year and bitterly complain about the lack of progress. You must understand that you are giving your electrologist an impossible task.

I refuse to treat clients with this type of problem. I can’t “take it any more.” For what it’s worth, I have NEVER had a client with this problem actually believe my “story.” They only believe they have “longer ones,” and that zapping those (at the time) will solve the problem. They want the impossible! Nicely, there ARE plenty of wonderful electrologists that are happy to do such work (Dee loves this stuff). For me … I’ve had it! ha ha ha

Seriously, I can complete a man’s fully covered back and chest in less time than those with “only the long ones.” These miserable cases go on and on for 10 years or more (the patient will not do what’s required). It’s usually 5 minutes of treatment (every 6 months) followed by 30 minutes of complaints! I explain the situation, and they walk away … and I know they didn’t hear ONE word of it!

Hairtell, thanks for letting this old curmudgeon “vent.” He he

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#100874 - 08/27/12 04:55 PM Re: vellus hair treatment [Re: Michael Bono]
Deedra Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 08/02/18
Posts: 9709
Loc: United States
As Michael said, I do love treating vellus hair. These women just say, "Get the long ones", but once you stake out a "hair neighborhood" between your fingers and get all the long ones, some want to go further to get the next level of hairs. So, when I get requests for vellus hair removal, I make my honest speech about the process and underscore that honest speech with loving firmness. I tell the client, that this will be a demanding process for both of us. It will take many sessions, scheduled close together, that are over an hour or two in length for about 12 to 18 months. After an ambitious schedule for the first 12 to 18 months, things calm down, but we will still have not reached the end, as there will pockets of hair growth that we need to refine.

Continuing on with the honest, lovingingly firm talk, I tell them that it will NOT be very unpleasant sensation-wise. Many fall asleep as we listen to audio books or music. I tell them it will be costly and to not get discouraged, as they will turn the corner at some point where they see that there is progress is being made. Cost is dependent on time and we spent a lot if hours together.

The electrologist needs to work for hours at a time. If they're not willing to do that, then it will take much more time (years) and no dout, the client will give up.

Lighting is the key to seeing. Right next to that are positioning and shadowing with an index finger above the area. Most important is her desire to work doggedly, with you, toward getting those numerous, difficult hairs. If her back and neck hurt, she may only do appointments that are less than hour to protect her health. You can't blame her. If she doesnt agree with your goal to get hairs that nobody can see, then a half a team approach will fizzle soon enough.


_________________________
Dee Fahey RN CT LLC

Licensed by the State Medical Board of Ohio for Cosmetic Therapy/Electrolysis and the State Nursing Board of Ohio

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#100876 - 08/27/12 09:01 PM Re: vellus hair treatment [Re: Hairadicator]
Johnson Offline
Top 20 Contributor

Registered: 06/29/08
Posts: 233
Originally Posted By: Hairadicator
I have been an electrologist for over 32 years and no longer treat clients concerned about vellus hair. Vellus hair does NOT constitute a hair problem, especially if the hairs are so small your electrologist is having trouble seeing them. Chances are you have a 10x magnifier at home and worry over every little hair that is "too long." Concern over vellus hair viewed through 10x magnification is not being realistic. Peach-fuzz will look like tree trunks! Yes, you will find electrologists that will treat you, but they will not be able to satisfy or help you. Conviction and worry that the world sees you as you see yourself through 10x magnification is a problem better served through psychiatry, not permanent hair removal.


Well the reason I'm gonna ask for this is because I know for a fact that these current vellus hairs in particular are going to become long, coarse dark hairs when I become older. As a young man I can just look at my brother and father and see the same growth pattern developing, so I happen to know for sure that these vellus hairs will become a problem later so I'm hoping to fix them all at once.

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#100877 - 08/28/12 12:08 AM Re: vellus hair treatment [Re: Johnson]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3490
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
Don't do it. Especially if those "vellus hairs" are body hairs. You have no bona fide idea how many "vellus" are going to become fat terminal hairs.

I don't believe in preemptive hair removal. Also, permanently removing big fat hair is easier, and causes potentially less skin damage than removing tiny hairs. Yeah, really!

(The target area in big hairs lies well below the "scar zone." Tiny hairs are usually rooted right in the "zone." Best treatment for these tiny hairs: "auto-timed" thermolysis with insulated needle ... not blend!)

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#100878 - 08/28/12 12:08 AM Re: vellus hair treatment [Re: Johnson]
redearthling Offline
Contributor

Registered: 06/29/12
Posts: 23
I appreciate everyone's comments and opinions, but please do not profess to know me or my problem without seeing me. I have vellus hairs on my cheeks, sideburns and jawline that can be half an inch or longer and they are not light blonde but more golden and VERY noticeable. In fact all the hairs on my face are noticeable because of their length and darker colour, and I think I am being quite reasonable to try and remove only the long ones. If I don't, I will soon look like I have a beard. The hairs at the corners of my mouth and down further are also darker and about a centimetre long. I feel this constitutes a problem for me. I am more than willing to put in the time and money it takes to do this and am prepared for 2 years or so of treatments. My electrologist is doing hour long appointments and I am going along with what she can manage to do. My original query was about the lighting issue of seeing hairs and when the short regrowth comes back. I don't want to wait until these re-grown hairs are long again to be treated subsequent times. I am a scientific researcher, and not stupid, I have previously seen "longer" hairs on my face I know are shedding and have actually removed some of these by brushing my fingers across my face (as will naturally happen when they are shedding), so know the difference between a shedding hair that is 5mm or so and a half inch or longer hair sticking out of my cheek.

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#100879 - 08/28/12 01:29 AM Re: vellus hair treatment [Re: redearthling]
Laurier Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 03/05/11
Posts: 504
Loc: Upstate New York
I've been watching this discussion with great interest. With some prodding from Kelly Stump up outside Chicago, we've been working on a new size/shape Probe to target these hairs. The first prototypes just went out today to Kelly and Josefa. A .0025" tip with a fast taper to make them fairly rigid and a reduced tip length for shallow insertions. Hopefully they will get the job done well. We shall see what the ladies have to say about them in the near future.
_________________________
Makers of the Laurier Insulated Bulbous Probe.

www.laurierinstruments.com

"The perfect violin is worthless unless in the hands of one who can play it well"

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#100887 - 08/28/12 10:14 AM Re: vellus hair treatment [Re: redearthling]
ekade Offline
Top 20 Contributor

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 306
Originally Posted By: redearthling
My original query was about the lighting issue of seeing hairs and when the short regrowth comes back.

I can assume that you need someone who use high quality surgical loupes of 4x and higher to see these hairs. Did you try to dye these hairs?

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#100888 - 08/28/12 10:45 AM Re: vellus hair treatment [Re: Laurier]
stoppit&tidyup Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 05/04/08
Posts: 1822
Loc: London, UK
Originally Posted By: Laurier
I've been watching this discussion with great interest. With some prodding from Kelly Stump up outside Chicago, we've been working on a new size/shape Probe to target these hairs. The first prototypes just went out today to Kelly and Josefa. A .0025" tip with a fast taper to make them fairly rigid and a reduced tip length for shallow insertions. Hopefully they will get the job done well. We shall see what the ladies have to say about them in the near future.

Hi Mike,

I am excited to read this. As you may know, this is exactly the kind of facial hair I have and that Josefa is treating for me. I am seeing her again soon. This time I really want to blitz the area... I don't know what Josefa has planned but I'm hoping it involves a test of this probe!
_________________________
34/F/UK
Laser for reduction on Underarms, Bikini, Full Legs & 3/4 Arms. Skin type IV
Electrolysis - Further details in: My sister's electrolysis diary
[27hrs of Blend, April 2008-Dec 2010 in UK, for coarse hair on lower sideburns, coarse chin hair, completed upper lip, shaped eyebrows]
[Sept 2011 to Nov 2013, once yearly sessions with Josefa. Completed reduction of facial/neck fuzz in approx 27 hrs TTT]

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#100940 - 08/30/12 11:12 PM Re: vellus hair treatment [Re: stoppit&tidyup]
depilacionelectr
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: stoppit&tidyup
Originally Posted By: Laurier
I've been watching this discussion with great interest. With some prodding from Kelly Stump up outside Chicago, we've been working on a new size/shape Probe to target these hairs. The first prototypes just went out today to Kelly and Josefa. A .0025" tip with a fast taper to make them fairly rigid and a reduced tip length for shallow insertions. Hopefully they will get the job done well. We shall see what the ladies have to say about them in the near future.

Hi Mike,

I don't know what Josefa has planned but I'm hoping it involves a test of this probe!


Count on it!

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#101299 - 09/21/12 05:18 AM Re: vellus hair treatment [Re: ]
redearthling Offline
Contributor

Registered: 06/29/12
Posts: 23
Hi all,

While I am happy with my progress so far, I noticed my electrologist uses 25G hypodermic needles rather than specific electrolysis probes. I don't have any scarring etc. so assume they are just as efficient. Could this be a cost consideration for her or could it be because of the design of the old machine? It seems odd to me. She has been doing this for 20+ years, and I would assume if she wasn't efficient/needle didn't work, her clients wouldn't keep coming back.

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#101300 - 09/21/12 05:20 AM Re: vellus hair treatment [Re: ekade]
redearthling Offline
Contributor

Registered: 06/29/12
Posts: 23
Ekade: I put mascara on the hairs before I go in (the long ones that she misses). The shorter ones are a little harder to coat with mascara without colouring every hair in the area smile


Edited by redearthling (09/21/12 05:21 AM)

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#101301 - 09/21/12 12:28 PM Re: vellus hair treatment [Re: redearthling]
Deedra Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 08/02/18
Posts: 9709
Loc: United States
Originally Posted By: redearthling
Hi all,

While I am happy with my progress so far, I noticed my electrologist uses 25G hypodermic needles rather than specific electrolysis probes. I don't have any scarring etc. so assume they are just as efficient. Could this be a cost consideration for her or could it be because of the design of the old machine? It seems odd to me. She has been doing this for 20+ years, and I would assume if she wasn't efficient/needle didn't work, her clients wouldn't keep coming back.


REALLY!!!!!? Are the needles sterile? Were the needles once attached to a syringe?! This isn't good for many reasons. Are you located in the United States?
_________________________
Dee Fahey RN CT LLC

Licensed by the State Medical Board of Ohio for Cosmetic Therapy/Electrolysis and the State Nursing Board of Ohio

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#101302 - 09/21/12 12:51 PM Re: vellus hair treatment [Re: ]
Laurier Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 03/05/11
Posts: 504
Loc: Upstate New York
I looked it up and a 25 G hypodermic needle is .020" in diameter.

That's over three times the diameter of the largest electrolysis needle or probe on the market today


Edited by Laurier (09/21/12 12:54 PM)
_________________________
Makers of the Laurier Insulated Bulbous Probe.

www.laurierinstruments.com

"The perfect violin is worthless unless in the hands of one who can play it well"

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#101304 - 09/21/12 01:03 PM Re: vellus hair treatment [Re: Laurier]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3490
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
Actually, there is no way that a 25G needle would fit in ANY hair follicle on any human. Maybe on "elephant hairs" or "dinosaur feathers," but that's about it. (Even a 30G is still a monster and won't fit any follicle!)

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#101305 - 09/21/12 01:42 PM Re: vellus hair treatment [Re: Michael Bono]
Laurier Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 03/05/11
Posts: 504
Loc: Upstate New York
Drilling for a core sample maybe ?

Now there's a visual I didn't need...
_________________________
Makers of the Laurier Insulated Bulbous Probe.

www.laurierinstruments.com

"The perfect violin is worthless unless in the hands of one who can play it well"

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#101306 - 09/21/12 02:57 PM Re: vellus hair treatment [Re: Laurier]
Danika Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/06/12
Posts: 476
HUGE NEEDLES??? WE must live in the same town!! wink
_________________________
Female- Light skin, brown/blonde hair.
LASER- over 1+yr. Pleasantly surprised with results. No future sessions. Need to live with/in sun.
ELECTROLYSIS- Scammed by the one in my town. Whenever possible, while traveling out of town,I try to get electrolysis on face. Very Challenging overall due to lack of professionals available .Many treatments done on only a tiny area of my face yet there still seems to be alot of hair growing there. Seems an impossible dream at this point frown




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#101315 - 09/22/12 02:00 AM Re: vellus hair treatment [Re: Danika]
Deedra Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 08/02/18
Posts: 9709
Loc: United States
Maybe her electrologist is a diabetic and uses her insulin syringe needles for electrolysis, too. Is it possible that you misunderstood what she is using on you? With that gauge of needle, I would think you would be bleeding and bruised after a treatment, if that is what she is really using.
_________________________
Dee Fahey RN CT LLC

Licensed by the State Medical Board of Ohio for Cosmetic Therapy/Electrolysis and the State Nursing Board of Ohio

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#101400 - 09/27/12 03:44 PM Re: vellus hair treatment [Re: ]
harrykarry Offline
Contributor

Registered: 10/28/11
Posts: 15
OP, I am in a similar situation as you. I have long vellus hairs all over and I am having my face treated currently. If I look into a mirror at a certain angle I can see long darker hairs. I am a brunette so I my hairs are darker but not thick like terminal hairs. My arm hair is about 1 inch in length but thin, not peach fuzzy thin though. It's difficult to explain and pics would not do it any justice.

My electrolysis needs to turn her light in all sorts of ways to get the shadow just right and when she does she goes to town on the hairs. She has also used some kind of dye stuff that she spreads all over my face to find the finer hairs.
_________________________
started electrolysis 11/15/11 on sides of face and upper lip

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#101403 - 09/27/12 08:04 PM Re: vellus hair treatment [Re: harrykarry]
Hairadicator Offline
Top 20 Contributor

Registered: 06/07/12
Posts: 205
I no longer work with vellus hair cases and question electrologists that do. Unless the hair has accelerated to the point of becoming terminal hair, vellus hair "problems" have more to do with obsessive compulsive disorder fueled by high magnification mirrors than hair per se. Michael Bono brought up an interesting point. Clients will often say "just get the long ones" and do not comprehend (even when told) that eventually all of them grow long at different times. It becomes an uphill battle since there will always be "long ones." Additional difficulties arise when hormonal changes and the natural aging process stimulate more vellus hair to grow. It is simply not cost effective. Repeated treatments with follicles so close together in the same area over a period of many years even with the best electrologist and equipment has the potential to inflict skin damage. Electrologists and clients are free to make their own decisions, but it is my personal opinion that electrology is not the route of choice to alleviate vellus hair distress.


Edited by Hairadicator (09/27/12 09:17 PM)
_________________________
David Hardee, R.E.
Registered Electrologist since 1980
251-447-9500

hairzap@gmail.com

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#101404 - 09/27/12 09:14 PM Re: vellus hair treatment [Re: Hairadicator]
depilacionelectr
Unregistered


I absolutely disagree with you. I have worked on hundreds of cases and once the healing process is complete, the skin always looks better than before. Nobody can guarantee that some peach fuzz does not become terminal hairs, but at least these people can live with a certain level of confidence, if for them the vellus was a real problem. I am working very hard on people from South Asia due to emigration must adapt to the demands of the West. This must not be easy growing among children who tell you that you are the missing link between man and ape, or you look like a werewolf only because the hair is more evident in you than in humans around you. While I have strength, and they want to get rid of these hairs covering most of their bodies, I will contribute to make their lives easier in society.

Oh I forgot the most important: For better or worse, Electrology is the ONLY answer!

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#101406 - 09/27/12 09:46 PM Re: vellus hair treatment [Re: ]
Deedra Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 08/02/18
Posts: 9709
Loc: United States
I most whole-heartedly agree with Josefa! Everything you said should be magnified and repeated, Josefa, because you are totally correct. We both have lived it with our clients and we know what is possible, even though it is not easy. i say, let the consumer decide what they want and then serve them well accordingly.

There is no skin damage with such a strategy. Apilus Platinum technology, Laurier probes and........SKILL see's to that. This is old, stale white bread thinking in regard to what a modern electrologist can do in 2012 and beyond. It is not easy and it is not cheap, but peach fuzz can be refined to a point where a woman feels better about her appearance. Many cases I treat, I don't agree with them that they need treatment, but if they understand the high hurdles involved with the process, they should decide what is best for them, not me.
_________________________
Dee Fahey RN CT LLC

Licensed by the State Medical Board of Ohio for Cosmetic Therapy/Electrolysis and the State Nursing Board of Ohio

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#101411 - 09/27/12 10:40 PM Re: vellus hair treatment [Re: ]
Hairadicator Offline
Top 20 Contributor

Registered: 06/07/12
Posts: 205
The potential for skin damage will always exist anytime the skin is disrupted (by any means) and can NEVER be 100% negated by any machine, instrument or individual. Machine sales jargon and enthusiasm over probes will not change this fact. Even hair salon clients risk skin damage from hair products, but it seldom occurs. As electrologists we work to minimize permanent side effects and today problems are rare, but this does not mean the potential for it to happen has been eliminated.


Edited by Hairadicator (09/27/12 11:04 PM)
_________________________
David Hardee, R.E.
Registered Electrologist since 1980
251-447-9500

hairzap@gmail.com

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#101413 - 09/28/12 12:35 AM Re: vellus hair treatment [Re: Hairadicator]
depilacionelectr
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Hairadicator
The potential for skin damage will always exist anytime the skin is disrupted (by any means) and can NEVER be 100% negated by any machine, instrument or individual.


ein? I thought our goal was "to disrupt" the follicle, and once removed, is closed forever, giving an appearance of homogeneity absolutely perfect to their host, ie the skin.

I don't know how you dealt with this type of follicles (before deciding that it is not worthwhile), but in my case, and those of many of the colleagues who have been able to cross impressions, the lesion is very precise, just one or two millimeters deep. Basically almost the same depth that has the epidermis. As you no doubt know, most of these hairs is in telogen phase, so the goal is reduced by more than half to any terminal follicle which has most of the hairs in the anagen phase. You, me, or one has to be very beast to scar these mini-follicles.

On the other hand, I do not know if you are aware of the new procedures to minimize dilated pores or holes in old acne scars. It consists of coagulate the objective follicle edges, so that the new wound edges and close the hole forever. I've tried to do this, and I have seen positive results.

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#101414 - 09/28/12 03:00 AM Re: vellus hair treatment [Re: Hairadicator]
Deedra Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 08/02/18
Posts: 9709
Loc: United States
Originally Posted By: Hairadicator
.........As electrologists we work to minimize permanent side effects and today problems are rare, but this does not mean the potential for it to happen has been eliminated.


I am not seeing or hearing complaints about skin damage with my vellus hair cases, and i do a lot of vellus hair, so I guess the "potential part " of your statement has not been realized. Another keyword: RARE
_________________________
Dee Fahey RN CT LLC

Licensed by the State Medical Board of Ohio for Cosmetic Therapy/Electrolysis and the State Nursing Board of Ohio

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#101416 - 09/28/12 06:05 AM Re: vellus hair treatment [Re: ]
ekade Offline
Top 20 Contributor

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 306
Originally Posted By: dfahey
There is no skin damage with such a strategy. Apilus Platinum technology, Laurier probes and........SKILL see's to that.

And very good magnification I dare to add.

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#101419 - 09/28/12 01:23 PM Re: vellus hair treatment [Re: ekade]
Deedra Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 08/02/18
Posts: 9709
Loc: United States
Oh, you are absolutely right ! Magnification is probably the most overlooked in vellus hair strategy.
_________________________
Dee Fahey RN CT LLC

Licensed by the State Medical Board of Ohio for Cosmetic Therapy/Electrolysis and the State Nursing Board of Ohio

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#101421 - 09/28/12 01:39 PM Re: vellus hair treatment [Re: ]
stoppit&tidyup Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 05/04/08
Posts: 1822
Loc: London, UK
I have a lot to write but it will have to wait until I return home.

I would say lighting is the key and magnification depends on the electrologist's needs. I hope Josefa will not mind me mentioning that she uses basic magnification for these hairs.
_________________________
34/F/UK
Laser for reduction on Underarms, Bikini, Full Legs & 3/4 Arms. Skin type IV
Electrolysis - Further details in: My sister's electrolysis diary
[27hrs of Blend, April 2008-Dec 2010 in UK, for coarse hair on lower sideburns, coarse chin hair, completed upper lip, shaped eyebrows]
[Sept 2011 to Nov 2013, once yearly sessions with Josefa. Completed reduction of facial/neck fuzz in approx 27 hrs TTT]

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#101422 - 09/28/12 07:52 PM Re: vellus hair treatment [Re: stoppit&tidyup]
Deedra Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 08/02/18
Posts: 9709
Loc: United States
With over 7,600 posts, I sometimes get lazy and don't repeat all the details that need constant emphasis. I responded to the three points that hairadicator made, leaving out magnification and lighting. Of course, those are as important as skill, equipment and knowledge and I have reiterated that magnification and lighting play a part in the successful outcome of permanent hair removal, via electrolysis. Perhaps I need to write a statement and have it available for copying and pasting, so I don't die of boredom repeating this topic over and over again.

A big part of the reason professional electrologists use surgical magnification is to adequately see all hair structures so we can serve all needs, but there are other reasons. Proper visual aids help with good body mechanics/ ergonomics so we can stay healthy and happy in our pursuit of serving the hairy for many years. Our distance vision improves so we can not only see the hair, but we can sit up straight with our back and neck in good alignment with our feet flat on the floor, while we work away. We can work longer on difficult cases, something many consumers want, but cannot get.. Many electrologists will only work an hour at a time because they need to be in a hunched position 7" away from the client.

So, I will add another important supplement to the electrologists' work station. I recently purchased a 24 hour task chair that has aided in my comfortable pursuit of removing hair and protects my physical well being, where my back is supported well. When my work day has ended, I'm ready for other pursuits. Those who do fine with their particular set ups, I revere them!



_________________________
Dee Fahey RN CT LLC

Licensed by the State Medical Board of Ohio for Cosmetic Therapy/Electrolysis and the State Nursing Board of Ohio

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#102048 - 10/26/12 12:49 AM Re: vellus hair treatment [Re: ]
redearthling Offline
Contributor

Registered: 06/29/12
Posts: 23
Oh my God!!! I am mortified. I have been away from work with a couple of bouts of flu and just returned and logged in to find the post about surgical needles!!! I must have left myself logged in on a work computer and someone (I have a good idea who) has decided to make a mockery of me. I apologise to anyone who took that seriously. I do, however, appreciate the other posts re vellus hair treatment. I consider most of the regular posters professionals and so like to hear your opinions re treatment.

Just to put minds at ease, my electrologist uses F2 sized probes. I don't know if that means anything to anyone in the US (I am in Australia), but another practitioner here said that is what she would use for vellus hair.

I would like some feedback re my work done so far but will have to write more after work.

Once again, apologies smile

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#102053 - 10/26/12 12:32 PM Re: vellus hair treatment [Re: redearthling]
S.Tehfe Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 10/30/10
Posts: 142
Loc: sydney NSW Australia
Like Dee and Josefa i love working on vellus hairs they are my favourite . Vellus hairs are superficial hairs therefore a probe with the shortest exposed tip must be used.F2 is perfect i also use laurier 003 with no problem.


Edited by S.Tehfe (10/26/12 12:55 PM)
_________________________
St George Electrolysis Clinic Sydney
www.stgeorgeelectrolysis.com.au

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#102057 - 10/26/12 07:51 PM Re: vellus hair treatment [Re: S.Tehfe]
depilacionelectr
Unregistered


Oh yes Sahar, working on this type of hair "vellus" is really satisfying. Whatever the strategy, the selection of the longest hair, or to clean anything that the eye can catch, the customer be always happy.

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#102065 - 10/27/12 12:02 AM Re: vellus hair treatment [Re: ]
beate_r Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 07/25/05
Posts: 900
Loc: Hattersheim, Germany
Indeed. As long as pain is not an issue. My preferred modality is multiplex, and usually a short flash pulse of just 1/1000 s with an intensity of 75-90% is needed to release those hairs reliably (in the 100 EL range).

It should, however, be informed consent with the client, that the density of the hairs may reach or even exceed the density of a fully developed male beard - with the obvious consequences on the time needed for a really full treatment.

BTW: many of my vellus/fine hair clients have at least two different kinds of hairs: some "accelerated" vellus or maybe better very fine terminal hairs on a background of real vellus hairs. Clearly distinguishable since both are present predominantly in telogen stage (initially...).
_________________________
Beate Ritzert

Elektroepilation Dr. Beate Ritzert
http://epi.ritzert.net/en/

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#102177 - 10/31/12 11:53 AM Re: vellus hair treatment [Re: beate_r]
redearthling Offline
Contributor

Registered: 06/29/12
Posts: 23
beate_r, that is the type of problem I have... I see all the tiny, blonde "normal" vellus all over my face, but then I have accelerated vellus (1cm or longer) down the sides of my face and across my cheeks/jaw and under the chin area, that have more pigment in the end of them. This is what I am aiming to remove. I have days when I am extremely happy with the result, and then, when i get the re-growth, it is a bit depressing, as I think it looks just as bad, as the shorter growth is still darker hair. I have now had 13 hrs of work done at a cost exceeding $1200 (electrolysis is not cheap here) and there are many of the dark, long hairs that haven't even been touched once yet. The lady I go to says she prefers to undertreat to prevent skin damage, but I had hoped it would be moving along a little faster. I also hate that I can see the re-growth and she always misses most of what I see, and that is when she should be treating it. Finally, I want to ask if the hairs around the mouth and chin are tougher to treat generally, as I get fast re-growth in these areas. The hairs are still fine, not terminal.

Thanks.

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#102178 - 10/31/12 12:54 PM Re: vellus hair treatment [Re: redearthling]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3490
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
Indeed a case like yours seems “easy” but could be called the “Olympics of hair removal." Such a case like yours is perfect for the insulated needle and the automated thermolysis units. It’s a challenge because these hairs are shallow and, consequently, the potential for skin damage must be considered. (Your 13 hours so far is not a-typical.)

I’ve just come to the end of a massive “beard case” on a very wonderful woman (she was plucking … then shaving … and now nothing). Now that the shaving has ceased, the “undergrowth” has appeared.

Explanation: since tiny (vellus-type) hairs grow slower than large terminal hairs, the on-going (daily) shaving “hides” the tiny hairs: the patient does not realize these hairs even exist! Once the large terminal hairs are removed, and shaving stops, these “vellus” hairs appear. They were always there; the electrolysis did not convert the terminal hairs into vellus hairs.

I know this is not your case, but thought it might be helpful to point this out to other patients that are experiencing this very common phenomenon. To be honest … I’m PRAYING that is terrific client does not notice these nearly microscopic hairs. So far, she is not focusing on them. (I did point them out and explained what happened.) My forte is not “vellus hair” so I will recommend my favorite colleague in the area that loves this work and is better at it that I. (This little town is great: all of us in the field work together and are not competitive. It's ONLY what the client needs!)

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#125478 - 12/20/17 04:02 PM Re: vellus hair treatment [Re: redearthling]
ingeileen1991 Offline
Contributor

Registered: 05/13/15
Posts: 16
Hello

I would like you to clarify to me what they refer to with vellus (peach fuzz??). Because for example I have fine hair but clearly visible without glasses in my stomach. I have been dealing with electrolysis and I have found an improvement although in some hairs I have seen that they have become a little thicker and more visible. Do you consider that the treatment for these hairs is effective with electrolysis?

Thanks for your help

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#125481 - 12/20/17 07:31 PM Re: vellus hair treatment [Re: ingeileen1991]
Josefa M. Reina Offline

Major Contributor

Registered: 05/15/17
Posts: 74
Originally Posted By ingeileen1991
Hello

I would like you to clarify to me what they refer to with vellus (peach fuzz??). Because for example I have fine hair but clearly visible without glasses in my stomach. I have been dealing with electrolysis and I have found an improvement although in some hairs I have seen that they have become a little thicker and more visible. Do you consider that the treatment for these hairs is effective with electrolysis?

Thanks for your help



Sure, if you can see the hairs, electrolysis can eliminate them, whatever their size, color, and phase.

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