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#103021 - 12/04/12 10:24 AM Modalities
venusdaystar Offline
Member

Registered: 10/20/12
Posts: 9
Hi guys,
so I guess I'm trying to make as much of an informed decision as possible on where to go next with my electrolysis treatments as I am treating a number of large areas and it will (no matter what modality I go for) end up being a large expense.

I am looking into getting my treatments done with a lovely lady who uses the Apilus Platinum Pure. I have been treated previously using the galvanic method and I have had good results, however, I have found this to be expensive and time consuming and unbearably painful, especially as I am treating some finer hair on the ribcage area.

In doing some reading there does not seem to be much consensus on which is the better method of the three; Galvanic, Thermolysis or Blend. I guess I'm interested in hearing what electrologists in particular feel is their preferred method and which they find offers the best results.

Also, I did some research on the Apilus Platinum Pure and I saw that it offered a number of settings. I'm not sure if I have understood everything properly, as a lot of the technical information kind of went over my head. Could someone please correct me if I am wrong, but does this machine also offer a "blend" modality setting as well as thermolysis? Something that could be used on me to treat tougher, dark, hormonal hairs like on the chin, breast, underarms etc.

I watched a video on Josefa's blog that showed before and after photos but if anyone has any other photos with permanent results of more than a year or two using this machine, I'd love to see them. I'm going to have a look around the forums in the meantime, I'm sure there's probably something already posted.

Cheers

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#103022 - 12/04/12 10:28 AM Re: Modalities [Re: venusdaystar]
venusdaystar Offline
Member

Registered: 10/20/12
Posts: 9
Also, I came across this on the following website:

http://www.transgendercare.com/electrolysis/methods/overview_methods.htm

"Thermolysis is ideally suited for thin, shallowly rooted hairs. It is a straightforward approach, and requires a minimum of operator training. However, its usefulness greatly degrades with the larger, course and deeply rooted hairs that generally comprise the typical male beard. We find the incidence of treatment complications to be somewhat higher with thermolysis as compared to multiple needle galvanic or the blend (described next). Additionally, treatment complications greatly increase with the use of flash (high intensity, short duration) thermolysis. We feel the adverse result of pitted scarring to be greatest with flash thermolysis.

The flash method is intended for treating small follicles, but has been adopted for treatment of large follicles. The flash method dispenses a high intensity blast of high frequency energy within less than one second’s duration. When this intensity is proportionate to the size of small follicle, it is an acceptable method. But when this intensity is increased enough to treat larger follicles, serious permanent side effects may occur. This intense heat can cause pitted scarring. For details on how this side effect occurs, please see High Frequency Blowout. Thermolysis typically provides a 5 to 15 percent kill rate for follicles treated."



The idea of scarring worries me a bit...

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#103023 - 12/04/12 12:10 PM Re: Modalities [Re: venusdaystar]
stoppit&tidyup Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 05/04/08
Posts: 1806
Loc: London, UK
All methods can provide permanent hair removal. All methods can be used without causing skin damage if the electrologist is properly skilled and experienced in their chosen modality.

The thermolysis modes on the higher end Apilus machines are very different to basic thermolysis. An electrologist using such a machine and modes has (I would say) virtually no need to use Blend.

You don't need to wait a year or two to establish permanency. But nevertheless, my sister started her sideburn treatment with Josefa in May 2011, for the first clearance. You can see photos from then until recently in the diary linked in my signature. Particularly photos of before treatment in May 2011, and 8 months after 2 clearances, in May 2012. We've had all sorts of body hairs treated - facial hair, arm hair, underarm hair, tummy hair, leg hair, bikini hair. Josefa kills every follicle she treats. End of. I'm pretty sure Josefa and others using Apilus machines for their work would not be so successful if their work was not permanent.

I would recommend reading through the Laurier II thread for more general knowledge on what it is electrologists using thermolysis and the Laurier probes are doing.
_________________________
31/F/UK
Laser for reduction on Underarms, Bikini, Full Legs & 3/4 Arms. Skin type IV
Electrolysis - Further details in: My sister's electrolysis diary
[27hrs of Blend, April 2008-Dec 2010 in UK, for coarse hair on lower sideburns, coarse chin hair, completed upper lip, shaped eyebrows]
[Sept 2011 to date, once yearly sessions with Josefa. Completed reduction of facial/neck fuzz in approx 27 hrs TTT]

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#103024 - 12/04/12 12:18 PM Re: Modalities [Re: stoppit&tidyup]
stoppit&tidyup Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 05/04/08
Posts: 1806
Loc: London, UK
Follizap's treatment of his son's leg, using an Apilus I believe:
http://www.hairtell.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/102462/follizap.html#Post102462

Geeza's electrolysis diary (work done by Follizap and Josefa): http://www.hairtell.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/96854/1.html

Boy's diary:
http://www.hairtell.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/102582/1.html

There are more but I can't find them right now. There is Diary of A European guy.

And another thing... if you read the first post of my sister's diary, the work was dissatisfied with in London was with Blend. Blend was not to blame.
_________________________
31/F/UK
Laser for reduction on Underarms, Bikini, Full Legs & 3/4 Arms. Skin type IV
Electrolysis - Further details in: My sister's electrolysis diary
[27hrs of Blend, April 2008-Dec 2010 in UK, for coarse hair on lower sideburns, coarse chin hair, completed upper lip, shaped eyebrows]
[Sept 2011 to date, once yearly sessions with Josefa. Completed reduction of facial/neck fuzz in approx 27 hrs TTT]

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#103026 - 12/04/12 01:34 PM Re: Modalities [Re: stoppit&tidyup]
Chris74 Offline
Contributor

Registered: 12/01/12
Posts: 21
I would agree that it's the proficiency of the electrologist that matters, not the method used. I started out with someone using Blend who, as it turns out, didn't know what the hell she was doing. I'm just thankful that all it ended up being was money down the tubes. Now, for the past 4 months I've been working with someone who uses thermolysis (not sure what machine) and I'm actually seeing genuine results. Oh, I'm a man having work done on my face.

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#103027 - 12/04/12 01:50 PM Re: Modalities [Re: stoppit&tidyup]
beate_r Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 07/25/05
Posts: 894
Loc: Hattersheim, Germany
Originally Posted By: stoppit&tidyup
...
The thermolysis modes on the higher end Apilus machines are very different to basic thermolysis. An electrologist using such a machine and modes has (I would say) virtually no need to use Blend...


Indeed, at least i do not see a necessity to use any of the blend modes of the Platinum family. In contrast to the quotation from transgendercare, my own experience tells me quite the opposite: efficency in these modalities per insertion (!!!) is larger, pain is lower, and side effects are reduced. Mostly, progress is way faster. Everything compared to my Apilus Junior which i usually use in pulsed blend mode, and everything tested on my own body.

IMO the statement on transgendercare is outdated.

Most of all: most of the job is the skill of the operator. Technology comes second.


Edited by beate_r (12/04/12 01:51 PM)
_________________________
Beate Ritzert

Elektroepilation Dr. Beate Ritzert
http://epi.ritzert.net/en/

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#103028 - 12/04/12 03:38 PM Re: Modalities [Re: beate_r]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3184
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
I think the most important aspect of hair removal is understanding the biological structure of the follicle and realizing what needs to be accomplished. Performing successful treatments can be done with any modality.

Each one of us prefers the modality we are using, and the one that gave us results. (No big surprise there!) I prefer full manual Blend (no controls other than a footswitch, and tapered needle with no insulation). After decades of using this modality I know precisely what I’m doing, and pretty much guarantee my final results. (A few nice test cases are coming soon, with photos. The kid from GA will be here in a few weeks for his final, 3rd clearing.)

(I have discovered that many who say they are doing “the blend” actually are not! Just using two currents is not the blend “method.” But I digress.)

Is one modality better than another? Actually, probably so, but there are no independent tests showing these results.* I suppose it could be done, but never will be done. Who would benefit?

A skilled operator can get superior results with any modality (gosh, aren’t we all sick of hearing this?). Again, I don’t want to sound like “Khrushchev” (as I have been accused), but potential clients always need to do their “homework” and ask “the right questions.” (These “right questions” will be part of my next free “offering.”)

Modality, scabs, pimples and after care ... OYE VEY!

*Some day I will explain the Peereboom electrolysis test in Rotterdam (NL) … now that was totally SILLY!

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#103031 - 12/04/12 07:34 PM Re: Modalities [Re: Michael Bono]
venusdaystar Offline
Member

Registered: 10/20/12
Posts: 9
Hi everyone, thank you so much for your posts. I did some reading on Hair Facts last night as well and I had a look at some of the citations and will try to look for those published works.

I think I will most likely go ahead with getting treatments done with this lady, she's very experienced so I am confident in her abilities and what's more, she seems to have a very kind nature.

My questions about modality also stem in part from trying to figure out what my cousin has done. She lives in Sweden and I live in Australia. She is like me, with a combination of fine and thick male like hair, very dark hair and pale skin. She has been successful with whatever it was she did which prompted me to look into electrolysis in the first place. She describes the procedure as "one needle, the lady delivers the current and uses a foot pedal." Her English is a bit limited when describing technical matters, so I'm not sure if she's talking about blend or thermolysis. I've asked her to take a picture of the machine the next time she visits.

I've been looking for a blend operator in Sydney and as yet I haven't happened across any yet. I'd be interested in the option as I'm starting to realise it's not just about what the practioneer prefers to use but what is a good fit for you as well.

The reason I also asked about the "blend" settings on the Apilus Platinum Pure, is because in their brochure they describe the following:

"Blend Modes
Blend modes, namely PicoBlendTM, OmniBlendTM and MultiBlendTM, are strongly recommended for deeply rooted, stubborn or distorted hairs in the anagen pha- se. While PicoBlendTM combines a galvanic current with a precise number of 27 MHz pulses, OmniBlendTM and MultiBlendTM combine the galvanic current with a conti- nuous 27 MHz current. The MultiBlendTM technique also adds a split-second 27 MHz PicoFlashTM pulse at the end of the Blend sequence. This intensifies the destructive effect of lye inside the hair follicle, from the bulge to the bulb."

As I said, being completely new to this, I struggle with the technical information and I wasn't sure if this was "true" blend or advertising.

Anyhow, it is a relief to know with the Apilus, there shouldn't be any scarring for the larger coarser hairs treated.

Thanks for links as well, I'm getting ready for work now but I will be sure to check them out when I get home. I read parts of the "success stories" threads last night and I found it super encouraging. Sometimes it feels like there is no real, practical solution for someone like me but when I see the pictures and hear the stories, it helps me stay positive! =)

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#103032 - 12/04/12 07:53 PM Re: Modalities [Re: venusdaystar]
stoppit&tidyup Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 05/04/08
Posts: 1806
Loc: London, UK
Venus - It is great that you want to be a well informed client. This is exactly how I started my process as well. But there are things which are personal to the electrologist. It doesn't really matter how they go about killing a follicle, just that they do kill it and without causing more damage than necessary.

I can only use Josefa as an example but as far as I know, she doesn't use Dectro's guidelines for settings, having figured out what works for her through experience. Using the thermolysis modes offered, she can kill all kinds of follicles.

Since you are in Sydney, you have two great options in Christine or Sahar. If I was in your position when I first thought about electrolysis, I would have had a much easier time!
http://www.hairtell.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/102045/Upper_Lip_Hair_Please_Help.html

Michael has made the most important point in his post:
"I think the most important aspect of hair removal is understanding the biological structure of the follicle and realizing what needs to be accomplished. Performing successful treatments can be done with any modality."
_________________________
31/F/UK
Laser for reduction on Underarms, Bikini, Full Legs & 3/4 Arms. Skin type IV
Electrolysis - Further details in: My sister's electrolysis diary
[27hrs of Blend, April 2008-Dec 2010 in UK, for coarse hair on lower sideburns, coarse chin hair, completed upper lip, shaped eyebrows]
[Sept 2011 to date, once yearly sessions with Josefa. Completed reduction of facial/neck fuzz in approx 27 hrs TTT]

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#103033 - 12/04/12 07:59 PM Re: Modalities [Re: stoppit&tidyup]
stoppit&tidyup Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 05/04/08
Posts: 1806
Loc: London, UK
This post shows my sister's hands before treatment (clearance of nearly all the hairs, some missed the cull though because they were hard to see and we were rushed) and then an update 8 months after this clearance. No treatment in between.
http://www.hairtell.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/98600/stoppit_tidyup.html#Post98600
You can click the photos to see full size.
_________________________
31/F/UK
Laser for reduction on Underarms, Bikini, Full Legs & 3/4 Arms. Skin type IV
Electrolysis - Further details in: My sister's electrolysis diary
[27hrs of Blend, April 2008-Dec 2010 in UK, for coarse hair on lower sideburns, coarse chin hair, completed upper lip, shaped eyebrows]
[Sept 2011 to date, once yearly sessions with Josefa. Completed reduction of facial/neck fuzz in approx 27 hrs TTT]

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