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#103769 - 01/03/13 01:47 PM Is the rod held during electro supposed to be wet?
austingirl Offline
Contributor

Registered: 12/31/11
Posts: 19
I have read several threads here and i believe it was mentioned that the rod held
during electrolysis is supposed to have a wet paper wrapped around it.

I had a test session done in another town, and the rod I held was just a metal rod, no wet paper towel wrapped around it. Another electrologist I spoke with recently also uses a 'dry' rod meaning no wet paper on it.

I contacted Apilus myself and the response was that it should be wet. So, I am
very confused about what is proper treatment.

Also, does anyone know of the safety of holding that rod. I just want to make sure it is safe. The person I used before used a foot pedal only.

Thank you.

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#103772 - 01/03/13 02:30 PM Re: Is the rod held during electro supposed to be wet? [Re: austingirl]
Cherrytree Offline

Major Contributor

Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 117
Loc: Edinburgh.Scotland/UK
austingirl,
The rod is called the 'indifferent bar' and is used in two ways -both of which require a damp contact pad around it and both of which are completely safe.

The first is for galvanic current circuit completion - so it is required in order to complete the circuit for galvanic aka direct current.
The reason the rod needs to be covered is that a good contact has to be established for the current to be complete and a damp, absorbent, flexible medium like a spontex pad or thickish wad of paper does that.

The second use of the rod involves the electrolysist's use of an auto mode on the epilator. This time, the rod is used for detection of current as opposed to completion of current circuit. In this case minimal contact of the skin with the rod is enough to do the job.

There are rules governing use of this bar and it is completely safe.
The rules are about establishing whether there are any 'obstacles' in the path of the current and removing or avoiding them if possible. These could be as simple as jewellery or they could be slightly more of a challenge like a metal hip replacement or they could be a contraindication to galvanic treatment altogether eg a cardiac pacemaker.

The more I think about your 2 practitioners not wrapping the bar for you, the more I think that they were not following best practice.

Other professionals will hopefully help me out here. Maybe there's a tip i've missed about the indifferent bar.

Hope this answers your question at least partly.

June x

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#103780 - 01/03/13 03:36 PM Re: Is the rod held during electro supposed to be wet? [Re: Cherrytree]
austingirl Offline
Contributor

Registered: 12/31/11
Posts: 19
Cherrytree-thanks for your response.

The rod in my case would be because the auto mode was used. So you are saying
that wrapping a wet paper would not be necessary if the rod was solely used for
the auto sensor mode?

But then you state that the 2 practicioners were not following best practice. Why is this? Germs on the rod?

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#103783 - 01/03/13 04:44 PM Re: Is the rod held during electro supposed to be wet? [Re: austingirl]
Willie Sedlar Offline
Member

Registered: 06/11/12
Posts: 8
Loc: Knoxville, TN
The "rod" I call it the "electrode" must make contact with the skin to comlete the circuit. I have used machines that you can test the conductivity. I have used the test mode and have never had my machine say it didn't make good contact. Maybe I am just lucky. Some people have dry skin and need someting extra moisture to make good contact. I just took the electrode off of my machine and did some insertions holding onto the banana clip (no electrode) at all. It worked just fine in flash as well as Blend modalities. So to say it is wrong not to wrap the electrode with a wet towel or sponge I would have to disagree. It depends on the persons skin. I have used the electrode under my knee and i have done electrolysis while sitting on it. I have never added any moisture to it. I have sprayed electrode solution on the electrode for clients. So right or wrong it works either way for me and even with no electrode on the end of the wire. I am a professional so don't try this at home. hahaha.


Edited by Willie Sedlar (01/03/13 04:54 PM)

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#103786 - 01/03/13 07:45 PM Re: Is the rod held during electro supposed to be wet? [Re: Willie Sedlar]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3361
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
This is a GREAT comment coming, as it does, in relationship to the thread on "hydration." YES indeed, your machine will automatically BOOST the voltage to maintain the selected current level (measured in mA).

If the supposition that "higher voltage causes more pain" is true (and I DO think there is some truth to this), then your machine is showing correct current levels (and good contact), but you might be experiencing more pain from the increased voltage (automatically boosted). It’s at least conceivable.

My suggestion: Even though all modern machines maintain constant current, STILL use a wet electrode and even salt water if possible. (In my book, I recommended using “baby wipes,” but I have gone back to a wet sponge electrode and use salt water to soak the thing.)

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#103787 - 01/03/13 08:43 PM Re: Is the rod held during electro supposed to be wet? [Re: Michael Bono]
austingirl Offline
Contributor

Registered: 12/31/11
Posts: 19
Michael, I have a question for you. What exactly do you mean by the machine maintaining "constant current"? I thought the the electricity only went to the follicle when the probe made contact with the skin. Are you saying if I choose to use an electrologist who uses a sensor vs one who uses a foot pedal, I am getting more
electricity shooting through my body because it is maintaining a constant current so I would have an electrical current going through my body for the entirety of the session vs using a foot pedal in which tiny bursts of electricity are released only when the electrologist presses the foot pedal? I'm getting a little paranoid here, so I apologize.

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#103790 - 01/03/13 11:04 PM Re: Is the rod held during electro supposed to be wet? [Re: austingirl]
Michael Bono Offline

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Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3361
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
He he he … well you did make me laugh a little austingirl. Whether the unit has “auto sense” (i.e., the machine goes “on” when the needle is inserted) … or, if they use a foot switch to turn on the current, there is no difference. It’s like this:

Suppose the therapist sets the DC at 0.5mA. She starts the machine (either by foot, or by auto-sense) the current goes “on” and the amount you get is the pre-selected 0.5mA. And, that’s it.

“Current” usually refers to actual electrons moving through a conductor (in this case your body). “Voltage” is like the pressure needed to push those electrons through the body, (there is always resistance to current flow ... unless, I think, you get to absolute zero?). The setting on the meter is a selection of current (or electrons, if you will), that travel in the body.

“Constant Current” means that if you select, say, 0.5mA … the voltage (pressure) will automatically go up or down to maintain that “constant current” flow of electrons.

Gosh, I hope I’m right on this. Maybe Brenton can help me on this. I think I basically got this right. The important thing? NO WORRIES, if it’s auto or foot switch … same thing.

I think the auto-start works by having an infinitesimal amount of current at the needle all the time. When the machine senses a change in conductivity/resistance (as from “no connection” to “wet body tissue”), the unit switches the current “on.” It’s a nice feature. Again, I might not have this entirely correct.

(Amazingly, there was an unending discussion about whether current goes from + to -, or from - to + Old literature said that there was a "buildup of electrons" at the “plus” pole and then went to the “negative” or electron-deficient pole. Today, it’s just the opposite. And, don’t even read this last paragraph, it’s BS for sure. True, but BS nevertheless.)

This electrical stuff is NOT my area of "knowing" at all, so wait for a much better explanation. Please ... help here folks!

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#103793 - 01/04/13 12:03 AM Re: Is the rod held during electro supposed to be wet? [Re: Michael Bono]
Mantaray Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 711
Loc: San Diego, California
Quote:
This electrical stuff is NOT my area of "knowing" at all, so wait for a much better explanation. Please ... help here folks!


You know Mike, the electricity illustrations you had in your book to explain currents just made me laugh, a good laugh. I thought, this guy is truly a product of those 1950's - 1960's elementary school health and science films. You know, where the little tooth is jumping around with the toothbrush? smile The wizard/ magician picture I thought was the one that made me wonder smile

btw: Austin's the place. I miss all that good trailer food. I miss the big Peter Pan too. You have to love Maria's Gospel Brunch.
_________________________
Mantaray

Electrolysis, since 1875

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#103794 - 01/04/13 12:08 AM Re: Is the rod held during electro supposed to be wet? [Re: Willie Sedlar]
beate_r Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 07/25/05
Posts: 898
Loc: Hattersheim, Germany
Originally Posted By: Willie Sedlar
... It worked just fine in flash as well as Blend modalities. So to say it is wrong not to wrap the electrode with a wet towel or sponge I would have to disagree. ...


Of course, blend also works with a blank electrode... BUT:

Apparently You seem to enjoy the feeling of the hydrochloric acid on Your skin which develops at the "rod" in blend and galvanic modes.


*breitmaulfroschartiges Grinsen über alle vier Backen*

(you might try to look that up in dict.leo.org smile )

(using wet paper or sponge to cover the rod will cause the chemical reaction occur between sponge an metal instead of skin and metal)
_________________________
Beate Ritzert

Elektroepilation Dr. Beate Ritzert
http://epi.ritzert.net/en/

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#103796 - 01/04/13 12:53 AM Re: Is the rod held during electro supposed to be wet? [Re: beate_r]
Cherrytree Offline

Major Contributor

Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 117
Loc: Edinburgh.Scotland/UK
austin girl,
I tried to think through the context of your treatments.You said that the 2 were testers, didn't you?
In the context of a test treatment, I think that it would be less than best practice (maybe that's a bit harsh) to use auto mode as we don't know until we've performed a few epilations, how the skin and hair of a new client are going to respond.

And for the reasons mentioned by others, above, the bar is always damp-covered in my world. (i never mentioned the HCL in my post as I didn't want to freak you out! smile HCl is sometimes a scary word for clients and as it is hardly ever a problem and never a serious one, I don't mention it!)
June

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#103797 - 01/04/13 01:10 AM Re: Is the rod held during electro supposed to be wet? [Re: Cherrytree]
Brenton Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 06/09/11
Posts: 721
Loc: SoCal
Originally Posted By: Michael Bono
Maybe Brenton can help me on this.


You basically have it right. Constant current means that the amount of charge that flows per second is constant, and since the electrolysis machine (is there an actual word for that?) can't change your body's resistance, it needs to adjust the voltage (my guess is that it ultimately affects "power" instead of voltage, but power is just = voltage * current, so everything is all related).

In reality, current can be the flow of either positive or negative charges. It's really a matter of convention on what gets defined what way.

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#103806 - 01/04/13 03:49 AM Re: Is the rod held during electro supposed to be wet? [Re: Cherrytree]
austingirl Offline
Contributor

Registered: 12/31/11
Posts: 19
Thanks everyone for the explanations.

Beate_r and Cherrytree--since I held the rod only for thermolysis and was used
as an autosensor, I guess the formation of Hydrocloric Acid wouldn't apply?

I don't recall feeling any strange sensations on my hand.

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#103807 - 01/04/13 04:20 AM Re: Is the rod held during electro supposed to be wet? [Re: austingirl]
dfahey Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 9670
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
There is a little bit of hydrochloride acid that results and can feel prickly to your skin in auto sensor mode if the solid metal rod is not covered with a a wet sponge or baby wipe. I always cover mine.

If the sponge or wipe dries out, then the auto sensor mode won't work until it is dampened again.
_________________________
Dee Fahey, R.N., C.T.
Licensed by the State Medical Board of Ohio for Nursing license and Cosmetic Therapy/Electrolysis license
_____________________
ELECTROLYSIS FAQ'S:

British Institute & Association of Electrolysis

http://www.electrolysis.co.uk/?page_id=16

Do not give up, the beginning is always the hardest.

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#103814 - 01/04/13 06:11 AM Re: Is the rod held during electro supposed to be wet? [Re: dfahey]
austingirl Offline
Contributor

Registered: 12/31/11
Posts: 19
Thank you for the clarification dfahey. Now I feel like I was poisoned. I wonder
if there are ramifications for those patients of hers who have been getting long term treatment.

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#103816 - 01/04/13 08:41 AM Re: Is the rod held during electro supposed to be wet? [Re: austingirl]
beate_r Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 07/25/05
Posts: 898
Loc: Hattersheim, Germany
In autosensor mode the electric conductivity is measured. This envolves the flow of a tiny electric current, but it should be so small that chemical reactions or any other harm to the body should be excluded.

This is very different to blend or galvanic where the currents are necessarily significant and not all clients can be treated that way. When it became clear that one of my clients gets convulsions from them i more or less gave up using blend at all.

Anyway most people should not get any ramifications from long term blend treatments. But it has its reason why we check for the health of our clients.
_________________________
Beate Ritzert

Elektroepilation Dr. Beate Ritzert
http://epi.ritzert.net/en/

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#103821 - 01/04/13 02:13 PM Re: Is the rod held during electro supposed to be wet? [Re: beate_r]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3361
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
Beate: “When it became clear that one of my clients gets convulsions from them I more or less gave up using blend at all.”

Austin: “I wonder if there are ramifications for those patients of hers who have been getting long term treatment.”

Austin: “I'm getting a little paranoid here, so I apologize.”

Austin: “Now I feel like I was poisoned.”



Well, you certainly can get yourself “worked up in a lather” if you want to. I am stunned however, to see people having ONE experience and then making general conclusions. This is not very scientific at all. I’m in shock! (Science does not go from ONE observation to a GENERAL conclusion!)

If you really want to get “paranoid,” why not now consider that the High Frequency (Thermolysis) is a form of “electro-magnetic radiation.” Yes, “radio frequency,” like a tiny radio transmitter. Yes, there are people that swear that common power lines (EMR) can give you cancer.

Year ago, we had an electrologist that stated that since LYE is produced in the skin (DC), that this lye will travel in the blood and eventually destroy the kidneys and liver. By contrast, a few electrologists (using multiple needle of course) stated that using thermolysis for eyebrows would “cook” the lens of the eyes and cause cataracts … leading to blindness. They also said that the thermolysis would eventually cause brain tumors (you know like a cell phone?).

I suppose I can somewhat understand the paranoia of a panicky/nervous client. But having Beate state that the “Blend causes CONVULSIONS,” is not acceptable and not something any reasonable scientific mind can see as anything other than total foolishness. Shame on you!

You cannot have ONE experience and then conclude that an entire modality is dangerous. Indeed, “professionals” themselves have initiated a lot of the client hysteria, over the years! (We have a local electrologist that states that electrolysis — DC — causes ACID in the blood and will cause all sorts of health issues.)

All modalities of electrolysis are absolutely safe and have been proven safe for over a hundred years. Come on folks, get with it! This is REALLY sad! No actually pathetic!

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#103946 - 01/09/13 02:32 AM Re: Is the rod held during electro supposed to be wet? [Re: Michael Bono]
beate_r Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 07/25/05
Posts: 898
Loc: Hattersheim, Germany
A short clarification: please keep in mind, that i am not a native speaker.

Originally Posted By: Michael Bono
Beate: “When it became clear that one of my clients gets convulsions from them I more or less gave up using blend at all.”


After looking up the word in my dictionary again i noticed that the term "convulsions" is probably too strong, but the German word "Krämpfe" with its apparently much broader meaning still applies - that client - actually quite tolerant to the pain - did indeed react quite strongly on the galvanic current. In a reproducable manner. We had plenty of time to test it.

And of course "giving up" means for me not dropping immediately but looking for alternatives to my at that time standard approach which was more comfortable for the client. Which i usually find. As mentioned repeatedly, usually does not mean always - there are still a few situations where i actually prefer the blend.
_________________________
Beate Ritzert

Elektroepilation Dr. Beate Ritzert
http://epi.ritzert.net/en/

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#103954 - 01/09/13 10:18 AM Re: Is the rod held during electro supposed to be wet? [Re: beate_r]
beate_r Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 07/25/05
Posts: 898
Loc: Hattersheim, Germany
Just one other clarification: i never wanted to express blend being dangerous.
_________________________
Beate Ritzert

Elektroepilation Dr. Beate Ritzert
http://epi.ritzert.net/en/

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#126586 - 05/12/18 06:44 PM Re: Is the rod held during electro supposed to be wet? [Re: austingirl]
Ton Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 07/02/16
Posts: 53
I am reading some electrology literature right now that says the Chlorine atoms from the NaCl evaporate out of the follicle opening, just as the hydrogen gas bubbles do. Yet the same literature says that the Chlorine travels towards the cathode handheld bar and becomes hydrochloric acid! Where does the HCL on your fingers get it's hydrogen frim?

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#126587 - 05/12/18 06:48 PM Re: Is the rod held during electro supposed to be wet? [Re: austingirl]
Ton Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 07/02/16
Posts: 53
I meant to write "from", but I was having trouble navigating the text box. I'm using a smartphone right now (my laptop is not working). Do the hydrogen atoms, after splitting from the water molecules in the follicle, travel through the body and out your fingertips, where they join with Chlorine and make HCl?Or do the chlorine atoms get their hydrogen from the air?

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