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#108855 - 09/07/13 05:46 PM Reutilizing needles?
lyrical Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 08/28/13
Posts: 77
Loc: Portugal
Hi everyone. Today I went for an informative appointment in one of the few places I found that does electrolysis around here. The electrologyst was a rather nice lady and very honest. I really appreciated her honesty. I told her I am waiting to have my hormones tested and she said I should wait for the results in case I needed to start on any meds. Since these meds would affect my current hair growth, that could save me some money.

In the meantime, she explained some things. Some left me more puzzled than others.

For instance, she said that the hair stimulation that occured on the area of my face treated by laser was not due to laser but to the shaving they did prior to the procedure. Well, regardless of what thing did what, the results are here to show. Now, regarding electrolysis, she said that it takes time also because there needs be more than one insertion per hair follicle. I would like to know the opinion of more professionals here. Is one insertion usually not enough to kill the hair? She said that this is due to the shaving of the area that occurred in the laser treatment. She told me that shaving breaks down the hair under the skin into several parts, like a tree with many branches. This confused me a bit. While I certainly am not planning on shaving the area anytime soon (I rather disguise things with some trimming close to the skin and bleaching), her explanation puzzled me a bit because I've read several times that what makes a hair "branch out" is if you tweeze it. Because shaving gets rid of the area above skin surface, therefore it should not affect the root? Which brings me to the next question:

She said I could wax the area while I still don't get it treated by electrolysis. I am concerned of it growing back stronger, though, hence why I rather trim. There is no problem with trimming and bleaching, right?

And finally, the thing that confused me the most was the part about the needles. It seems each client pays for their own needles - she said they do this because it will be cheaper that way (the rates are still a bit high, mind). Apparently each needle can be used several times and she said people can bring them home with them (I see no sense in that) or leave them at the clinic and that they hardly need sterilizing because they're individual for each person. Can this actually be done with no risk of infection? Even if it's individual needles they are still being reutilized. I am not sure about this.

I asked her experience and she says she has 25 years of experience. While I hate doubting such a nice lady (seriously, she was the best), some of these things really make me wonder.

Well, that's it for now. Next week if I am lucky of getting an appointment I am meeting the only member of EAE in the country and see her take on things. In the meantime I'll trim and bleach these nasties.

Thanks for the help!
_________________________
Female, 1987, PT. Fitzpatrick Scale: II. Mediterranean descendency.

Diagnosed with Hashimoto thyroiditis in October 2013.
Taking 50 mg of Levothyroxine daily. Birth control pill Denille.

Victim of paradoxical hair stimulation by laser on chin area.

LHR (GentleLase):

8 sessions on upper lip. Fine dark hairs still visible.

1 session on underarms, bikini line, lower legs. Ongoing.

Electrolysis: started on November 30 2013. [Thermolysis] Chin area (black hair), cheeks (lighter hair slowly going terminal). Most hairs removed have white roots.

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#108859 - 09/07/13 06:52 PM Re: Reutilizing needles? [Re: lyrical]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3064
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
Dear Lyrical in Portugal,

I know I'm supposed to be nice and diplomatic, but if what you said is actually what the electrologist said to you ... well, this is total BS and shows ZERO understanding of hair and skin biology.

Shaving does NOTHING to a DEAD hair, except cut it off. Causing “trees to sprout?” This is pure delusional insanity. How can anyone … well, never mind!

Folks, our work is NOT over yet!

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#108861 - 09/07/13 07:28 PM Re: Reutilizing needles? [Re: Michael Bono]
lyrical Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 08/28/13
Posts: 77
Loc: Portugal
Dear Mr. Bono,

Yes I was confused because she said that shaving breaks the hair into several parts and that is why there needed be more than one insertion into each follicle to successfully kill it. I have only started researching hair removal methods and she has 25 years of experience on her sleeve but...it really made no sense to me. Her explanation would have made sense had it been about constant tweezing, not shaving, since shaving does not affect the root. (I did like the tree anology, mind, despite it making not much sense in this case).

Thank you for your input.
_________________________
Female, 1987, PT. Fitzpatrick Scale: II. Mediterranean descendency.

Diagnosed with Hashimoto thyroiditis in October 2013.
Taking 50 mg of Levothyroxine daily. Birth control pill Denille.

Victim of paradoxical hair stimulation by laser on chin area.

LHR (GentleLase):

8 sessions on upper lip. Fine dark hairs still visible.

1 session on underarms, bikini line, lower legs. Ongoing.

Electrolysis: started on November 30 2013. [Thermolysis] Chin area (black hair), cheeks (lighter hair slowly going terminal). Most hairs removed have white roots.

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#108862 - 09/07/13 07:31 PM Re: Reutilizing needles? [Re: Michael Bono]
SeanaTG Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 08/13/13
Posts: 988
Loc: The Great White North eh
I have to agree with Michael in that most of what she has said doesnt make sense.

First: hormone levels. If you are male or MTF Tg then YES it makes sense to get the blood work done first but you can still have electrolysis while this is being done or even before. Testosterone creates new growth, and can slow the process of removal as a result.However the rate of regrowth isnt likely to exceed the removal rate from electrolysis. You can still start electrolysis now and see postive results. Will you see total clearance right away? Heck no, but you will be making progress which is the goal.Your endocrinologist will probably prescribe spiroactone or androcur as an antiandrogen to reduce testosterone levels, but there is absolutely no reason to not start now anyway.

Shaving does NOT split hairs into pieces in the folicle. It's no different htan trimming them with scissors. However laser can affect hair growth and cause vellus hairs to become terminal hairs because it does affect right down to the root. Depending on the type of laser, your initial assumption is alot more likely.

You SHOULD NOT wax on facial hair! Not only is the hair not horribly well suited to being removed by waxing, which can cause you to pull out hunks of skin along with the hair and cause scarring, but such would be excruciatingly painful. Also should you wax, you are making those hairs unavailable to electrolysis tretment, for MONTHS.Just...No.

Needles...My advise here..is RUN! It's not just communicable disease you are trying to avoid by not reusing needles, but comtamination and infection from surface dirt and a million other things. by reusing a needle, without any sterilization, you are providing a surface for bacterial contaminants to fester on then injecting it into your face. REALLY bad idea. Honestly, probes arent that expensive. A box of 50 ballet gold from texas electrolysis supply costs $46 ( I just bought some this week) and are argueably some of the more expensive you can buy. Why would you risk your wellbeing over something tht costs less than half the price of coffee att he cheapest of places? It's not worth it.Reuseable probes, that are designed to be sterilized in an autoclave and NEVER used without being sterilized, are used so rarely TES doesnt even have them in stock. I know i tried to order them.While it is possible to get a probe to be reused , they should always be sterilized if you are doing so, no exceptions. Gangrene isnt worth the cost of less than $1.

My advice , given the advice you were given by this electrolysist would be to NEVER seek treatment from her.

Seana

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#108863 - 09/07/13 07:36 PM Re: Reutilizing needles? [Re: SeanaTG]
SeanaTG Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 08/13/13
Posts: 988
Loc: The Great White North eh
additionally, yes it is often necessary to treat twice on male ot MTF facial hair. It has nothing to do with shaving however, it has more to do with the thickness and stength of terminal hairs. In any event treating more than twice in a single folicle in a session isnt recommended , as it's more likely to cause scarring.


Seana

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#108865 - 09/07/13 08:14 PM Re: Reutilizing needles? [Re: SeanaTG]
lyrical Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 08/28/13
Posts: 77
Loc: Portugal
I am female. The only reason I'm checking my hormones is because I was on the pill (Diane 35) for eight years and I discontinued it 4 years ago. Last year I had some light fuzzy hair appear on my cheeks (that I have left untouched). My current problem and the reason I am seeking electrology poses with hair stimulation on the area under my chin post laser treatment. I most likely to not suffer from PCOS as I lack the more telling symptoms. We were discussing shaving because in the laser clinic they shave the areas before they use the laser on them.

Yes, about waxing, I told her I would not do it because of electrolysis. I think she was just trying to make me feel better with that advice as I was a bit upset (I haven't been able to exactly speak to many people offline about this problem.)

Yes, I was worried about the needles part. Not only am I paying extra for them (no matter what they claim) but "there hardly need be any sterilization...we'll leave them in a bag/envelope"? Hm...

Thank you for your input, Seana.

I hope I can find someone qualified for this. It's such a rare job, I was only able to find half a dozen places here and I don't even know if half of them still have this service. However, I do not want to risk my wellbeing any further.
_________________________
Female, 1987, PT. Fitzpatrick Scale: II. Mediterranean descendency.

Diagnosed with Hashimoto thyroiditis in October 2013.
Taking 50 mg of Levothyroxine daily. Birth control pill Denille.

Victim of paradoxical hair stimulation by laser on chin area.

LHR (GentleLase):

8 sessions on upper lip. Fine dark hairs still visible.

1 session on underarms, bikini line, lower legs. Ongoing.

Electrolysis: started on November 30 2013. [Thermolysis] Chin area (black hair), cheeks (lighter hair slowly going terminal). Most hairs removed have white roots.

Top
#108866 - 09/07/13 08:15 PM Re: Reutilizing needles? [Re: SeanaTG]
lyrical Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 08/28/13
Posts: 77
Loc: Portugal
Oh and the laser used on my face was the alexandrite type. I'm unsure what settings they used. It stimulated the area under my chin for three sessions.
_________________________
Female, 1987, PT. Fitzpatrick Scale: II. Mediterranean descendency.

Diagnosed with Hashimoto thyroiditis in October 2013.
Taking 50 mg of Levothyroxine daily. Birth control pill Denille.

Victim of paradoxical hair stimulation by laser on chin area.

LHR (GentleLase):

8 sessions on upper lip. Fine dark hairs still visible.

1 session on underarms, bikini line, lower legs. Ongoing.

Electrolysis: started on November 30 2013. [Thermolysis] Chin area (black hair), cheeks (lighter hair slowly going terminal). Most hairs removed have white roots.

Top
#108868 - 09/07/13 09:10 PM Re: Reutilizing needles? [Re: lyrical]
SeanaTG Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 08/13/13
Posts: 988
Loc: The Great White North eh
for a genetic female with no PCOS, its rare to have to treat the hair twice I think. As you are going along the hair either releases or it doesnt,If it doesnt you can treat a second time, but not a third.
I appreciate it's hard to find places. It sounds like she was trying to avoid sterilization because she may not have an autoclave. Having to buy your own needles ISNT common.

Seana

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#108871 - 09/07/13 09:27 PM Re: Reutilizing needles? [Re: SeanaTG]
lyrical Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 08/28/13
Posts: 77
Loc: Portugal
I was so bemused by what she'd told me it didn't even cross my mind to ask about the type of equipment they had. Well, that place just landed on the bottom of my list. They do sound profissional in the site and they do all kinds of treatments, from laser to even plastic surgeries!

But, for some reason, looking back now, it seems to me she was trying to discourage me from having the treatment. Not only she suggested more than once I wait for the blood test results, she also mentioned that there are other things to spend money on (since, if I wanted to have merely a test, I would have to buy the needle and to pay the time of the sample test). Seriously, she was quite honest and it's such a change from the usual places where they try to shove things on you.
_________________________
Female, 1987, PT. Fitzpatrick Scale: II. Mediterranean descendency.

Diagnosed with Hashimoto thyroiditis in October 2013.
Taking 50 mg of Levothyroxine daily. Birth control pill Denille.

Victim of paradoxical hair stimulation by laser on chin area.

LHR (GentleLase):

8 sessions on upper lip. Fine dark hairs still visible.

1 session on underarms, bikini line, lower legs. Ongoing.

Electrolysis: started on November 30 2013. [Thermolysis] Chin area (black hair), cheeks (lighter hair slowly going terminal). Most hairs removed have white roots.

Top
#108873 - 09/07/13 10:38 PM Re: Reutilizing needles? [Re: lyrical]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3064
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
Actually, I only glanced over the "buy ‘your needle’ and take it home with you" story. I just read it …

This electrologist REALLY is the bottom of the barrel and “cheap" doesn't even start to explain the rage I feel toward this idiot.

Yeah, let’s risk INFECTION because I’m too damned cheap to supply STERILE needles for my treatments. This person is in the “dark ages” of electrolysis.

I feel like buying a ticket to Portugal and visiting the clinic. This gave me a headache. I cannot believe this crap. Please tell me she really didn’t tell you this? You were just joking around to drive us all crazy? Right?

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