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#124855 - 10/06/17 11:31 AM Re: Relax time [Re: Michael Bono]
Michael Bono Offline

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Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3157
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
Julie, I do not understand your notations about current levels:

.1/10 RF with 20/.2 (DC?)"

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#124856 - 10/06/17 11:40 AM Re: Relax time [Re: Michael Bono]
dfahey Offline

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Dectro also gave us the option to shorten or lengthen the relaxation time between each impulse by enabling another function. If you use 2/1 value the relaxation time is shorter. If you choose to enable 5/4 value the relaxation time is longer. I like 5/4 with a big Laurier IBP. My observation is the client seems more comfortable. Probably because the shorter the thermal relaxtion time between the pulses, the more sensation the client will feel. It's amazing how fast things happen. If the hair had a brain, it wouldn't know what hit it.


Edited by dfahey (10/06/17 11:43 AM)
Edit Reason: added a thought
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#124857 - 10/06/17 01:38 PM Re: Relax time [Re: Michael Bono]
Michael Bono Offline

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Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3157
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
Amazing ... I like the 'brain' thing too.

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#124859 - 10/06/17 08:55 PM Re: Relax time [Re: Michael Bono]
fenix Offline
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Registered: 03/17/12
Posts: 451
Michael I kinda do the "live probing" with DC current as well and love the fact that it definitely assists in smooth insertions especially with #5 size needles. The needle slides in like hot knife through butter as the lye dissolves the tissue and maybe acts as a lubricant as well?
I don't have much knowledge of Dectro's machines or how they're designed. Electrolysis texts in general are very vague on themolysis currents and treatment patterns since there is no universal standards of measurements on HF.

I'd speculate that Dectro's machines produce such tiny/narrow heating patterns that they can get away with multiple releases with short "relax times." 90 bee stings vs. 1 alligator bite.

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#124860 - 10/06/17 10:55 PM Re: Relax time [Re: Michael Bono]
Michael Bono Offline

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Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
"90 bee stings vs. 1 alligator bite."

GREAT analogy and I promise I will be stealing the phrase!

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#124866 - 10/07/17 06:47 PM Re: Relax time [Re: Michael Bono]
Iluv2zap Offline
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Registered: 11/19/14
Posts: 1060
Dee could you tell me what the name of the setting is for that, or where to find it?
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#124874 - 10/09/17 02:53 PM Re: Relax time [Re: Michael Bono]
Julie Jacob Offline
Contributor

Registered: 02/16/17
Posts: 24
Originally Posted By Michael Bono
Julie, I do not understand your notations about current levels:

.1/10 RF with 20/.2 (DC?)"


Michael,

On an Instantron Elite Spectrum it's blend with .1 seconds at 10 ma thermolysis and 20 seconds 0.20 ma galvanic (direct current). Sorry for the shorthand, just my personal way of writing down the settings I'm using.

Further questions for anyone to answer if you don't mind me please smile

Isn't the theory that RF desiccates the follicle? If that's the case on your 1.0 ma DC method, wouldn't you reverse the distribution to deliver the dc and the ac?

Why use this method for body work only, risk of pitting?

For the Live Probing with the DC unit on, is that body work only, for just self treatment or are you having clients that are able to tolerate this?

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#124876 - 10/09/17 07:56 PM Re: Relax time [Re: Michael Bono]
Michael Bono Offline

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Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3157
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
Oh, 1/10th of a second for the thermolysis? (That is "0.1 seccond?)

The point is that it's completely worthless to discuss settings and contemplating what any technique would, or would not, do.

Just like a menu in a restaurant ... the proof is in the eating. In this discussion, the proof is in what results are achieved from the treatment.

Again, theory attempts to explain what is "in the flesh" happening; not "theory first."

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#124895 - 10/10/17 05:16 PM Re: Relax time [Re: Michael Bono]
beate_r Offline

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Registered: 07/25/05
Posts: 887
Loc: Hattersheim, Germany
Originally Posted By Michael Bono

Obviously what Dee is doing works beautifully, but my question is this: if you are delivering 90 pulses of HF in 1/10th of a second, there does not seem to be any possibility of "relax time." As the skin heats up there would be no "cool off" time for the next pulse and the ability to maintain a constant temperature? Maybe that's the goal? Maybe the pulses gradually increase in temperature?
...
Questions is about "relax time."


Indeed, that's what happens. And that's why it cannot be simulated through the "pulse repeating function" of older machines. Interestingly, the intensity is mostly the same as the one needed for a continuous pulse of the same total time, so it actually appears to allow to release a hair with less energy than in normal flash thermo mode.

BTW: the signal of that modality is 100 pulses per 0.1 sec duration. Every pulse is 3 wiggles of a 27 MHz sinusoid followed by a short gap (on the older 27MHz machines like mine).
And it would be interesting to see how the impedance of the target are varies through that time (it should), because the output stage of the Apilus seems to be a simple voltage source, and the actual current depends on the impedance of the skin.


Edited by beate_r (10/10/17 05:25 PM)
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