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#83677 - 03/01/11 04:02 PM Re: IPL works, and at home [Re: ]
deadfollicle Offline

Registered: 02/23/11
Posts: 13
I never knocked laser as you knock IPL. The time table of clearing a particular area has many variables but again you are still comparing apples to oranges. Your unrealistic high expensive expectations are much different than mine. One popular home IPL that uses replacement bulbs at 50.00 a pop and must be changed at 500-750 pulses only administers 5jules per pulse with a max 5 pulses at one time, per manufacturer specs. My unit is 30jules per pulse with a max of 7 pulses at one time and believe me you do not need 7 pulses with this unit. It's total effectiveness I will update you as time goes by. It is the type of unit that is also simple and fun to use especially comparing to the nightmare of waxing.

I would like to clear the air here and say your first reply got me started and we were off. I without a doubt respect your knowledge and experience and actually am going to look into the laser treatments for IF there is problem areas or areas my IPL ends up not being effective with. I never close my mind and one can't especially with technology and hair removal(I know laser has been around). Consider I am alone in this venture, also one of my reasons for joining Hairtell. I never paid 12,000.00 for hair removal but Hair Today Gone Tommorrow pricing is $10,000.00 for one full year of full body treatments no matter how many after "touch-up" treatments are 30% of the initial first year fee per year. I only had the beard done not the whole body, I don't have that kind of money nor would I spend it if I did with them.. My experience is with this company only so far and mostly because I heard horror stories with laser and was comfortable with the IPL method. Are all salons created equal? NO. Your experience with yours is good for you and I am glad you found the results you expected. You have my word that if my IPL unit works with the results meeting my expectations I will let you know either way. I sincerely do appreciate the debate and info you have shared with me and really hope you can understand my side, after all, we are on the same team fighting the evil Hair Follicle.

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#83682 - 03/01/11 05:12 PM Re: IPL works, and at home [Re: deadfollicle]
LAgirl Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 12/22/04
Posts: 9994
Loc: New York, NY
You only need to learn how lasers and IPLs work in order to understand why IPLs don't work as well for hair removal purposes as true lasers. Please read our FAQs at the link below or from another UNBIASED source online or at the library. This has to do with specs on the devices and has been proven by studies. No need for guessing as you seem to be doing.

As edokid mentioned, your assumptions on costs and time it takes to achieve results with LHR or on permanency are wrong. It takes 6-8 treatments spaced 8-12 weeks apart - this is because hair grows in cycles and this spacing and number of treatments is necessary with ANY permanent hair removal method.

Also, I don't need anyone else to tell me laser is permanent - I have had permanent results for 5+ years and counting from both laser and electrolysis on numerous areas.

I can't tell you what will happen in the future, but CURRENTLY there are no home laser or IPL machines that have the specs necessary to produce enough heat to destroy the follicle for good and prevent it from producing hair permanently. The currently available home machines have the ability to heat up the follicle enough to make the hair shed, but they're not powerful enough to heat it up enough to disable it permanently. That's what you're missing.

Even professional machines that are not set at good aggressive settings won't produce permanent results, which is why we have this forum with FAQs and lots of other helpful information on finding good clinics that will use good lasers at aggressive settings.

Also, full body treatments are rarely a good deal for anyone out there. Laser or IPL ONLY works on coarse dense hair. Everything else can only be removed permanently with electrolysis. Of course, unscrupulous clinics will tell you anything you want to hear to sell you their packages. If you listen to the clinics, they all have the best devices and everyone will get permanent removal on all types of skin and hair.

#83686 - 03/01/11 07:19 PM Re: IPL works, and at home [Re: LAgirl]
deadfollicle Offline

Registered: 02/23/11
Posts: 13
Thank you for the info. I know, I know, I understand the hair growth cycle and the basic science of energy transfer down into the follicle and resulting cellular damage caused from heat or electricity. However as a client "progresses" through their 6 to 8 treatments it is nothing to underestimate with laser treatments or IPL for that matter. The manufacturer specs of any device or unit is all one can go off no matter what you buy and the efficacy of a unit can be measured how? and by who? and with what device? Surely not by us visiting a salon or even the tech using the unit. Well I would say the results. After 6-8 treatments with my unit I will be interested to see the results. My feelings looking at the specs and what I see so far I beleive they will be excellent. As far as permanent we will wait and see. I am starting with this unit I also am aware there is other units including laser that can be obtained by a person (not just on ebay),that may or may not even be needed ,but with more of a range of settings and pulses. I will wait and see. In the end it is quite simple when were talking about superfulous (may not have spelled that right)hairs and treating with energy. My unit is heating up the follicle and damaging cells of the follicle. The hair has shed after one treatment so far and I have NO complications such as capillary bruising or burnt hairs within the follicle. Remember there is such as a thing as too much heat also to consider that can cause injury. With my black hair and light skin color this unit will work. Because of your experience I definately am going to investigate the entire laser concept for hair removal and try to see why you feel it is superior to IPL. My understanding is that specific lasers are applicable for a specific type of use and are definately NOT idiot proof so an experienced tech or training will be required. I will also be comping the costs for treatments. Beleive me it would be quite a luxury for me to just lay down and relax to receive a treatment by others but it is a luxury I cannot afford. My original post was to make folks aware of a home alternative that cannot be compared to those other 2 costly popular greatly greatly underpowered units with ridiculously priced low pulse life lamps. Five (5) jules per pulse? come on! In that context I would agree with you LaGirl on your home unit theory but my unit provides much more than enough energy (30 jules per pulse)to very effectively heat any follicle or overheat if one is not careful when using it. What I have is NOT a toy so I have been very careful in treating areas. This is what I researched prior to buying a unit. My risk was that it is administering the spec energy amounts and the lamp life claims. We will see and if it works people need to know about it and I will tell them either way.

When HTGT says whole body they mean whole body, and I do question there marketing ethics and tactics BUT that is the nature of business in this country and we all have to be careful with our money. HTGT did explain that the treatment is not effective on fine hairs or peach fuzz(for me I am ok with fuzz).

#83687 - 03/01/11 07:42 PM Re: IPL works, and at home [Re: deadfollicle]

Joules don't really mean anything though that's the problem. For example, 30 joules on GentleLASE 15mm spot size is around the same as 20 joules on the 18mm spot size. Looking at joules alone you would think that the 30 is better when it's not. With IPL it's even harder because spot sizes are meaningless with too many variables. The reason lasers are better is because they have 1 wavelength that is designed to kill hair. An IPL has every wavelength and needs a filter applied to it to filter out all the bad light and only use the hair removal light/wavelength which is not as effective.

Your problem is that you're judging the effectiveness by it making the hair shed which means nothing. Even the Silk'n which I'm pretty sure is the "home IPL" device you refer to, will cause the hair to shed. It doesn't mean you've killed the hair. You can hit the hair with very weak energy and it will still fall out because it's only stunned, that's what home IPL devices do. They don't deliver enough energy to permanently kill the hair, they only stun and disable it.

Hopefully your machine does work. Our only issue with your statements is that you can't say home IPL works when you haven't proven it yet. Even a professional laser can only be judged effective if a person stops treatments for 6+ months and no hair comes back. Until you've done 6-8 treatments with your home IPL and then stopped all treaments for more than 6 months (which will be close to 2 years from now) we won't know how effective it is. There's nothing you or anyone can say to prove otherwise!

And just to add, the only reason we are going hard on threads like yours is because it happens very frequently that someone signs up for the site here, and their very first post is "OMG I just bought the TRIA and I LOVE IT" or the Silk'n or whatever, and they go on to say they've used it for a few days and it's the best device they've ever used etc etc and it turns out they work for the company. Since 99% of the time most people don't just join a site like this simply to boast about a machine they bought. They usually join because they have questions, so we're trying to look out for the consumer here is all.

#85236 - 03/29/11 07:43 PM Re: IPL works, and at home [Re: ]
LAgirl Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 12/22/04
Posts: 9994
Loc: New York, NY
There is nothing wrong with you trying out the device and you can believe it's the best thing since sliced bread. Your original post, however, suggests that you are sure that this will provide permanent results when all science says otherwise (settings needed to deliver enough heat to disable the follicle permanently have been tested in order to create machines that actually provide permanent results - like the one I used).

Your post title should be "I'm going to try a home IPL device and see if it works. Wish me luck. I will report back 6 months after I've stopped a series of 6-8 treatments spaced 2 months apart". Right now, you make it sound like you got results, which you haven't.

#91738 - 09/12/11 06:14 AM Re: IPL works, and at home [Re: deadfollicle]
Ian Davies Offline

Registered: 12/08/10
Posts: 5
No the machine will not work, we had one in a tested it out for strength.
When we get these home IPL machines in for repair or they have not worked at all,we had one that you were talking about.
The best it would do is hair management,when we tested it for flash strength it was so weak,it would not have had the strength to send the pulse down the root of the hair.
It takes more than one visit to get rid of hair,the trouble is that people who are not engineers get ripped of by companies that make claims that are just lies about home IPL.
I do not want people to get ripped of,i am a IPL engineer.
Some of the wife's friend come up and ask me about these machines,that you can use at home.
I explain to them its hair management,some will listen to me, others do not.
This is were we had these machine to test, and yes we did put a new lamp in.
They have all failed,sometimes i phone up and ask question to these reps, and when i ask about repetition rates, energy reading and how the hell can you get so much joules from that machine.
And when i ask for reading to be verified by a test station, they put the phone down.
They put the phone down because they know the game is up.
Its all a load of hot air.
I can get you a 500cc car that has the same energy and results has a Ferrari and for 100,000.00 less.
Would you believe a statement like that, no you would not.

Edited by Ian Davies (09/12/11 06:16 AM)

#115475 - 09/22/14 02:59 PM Re: IPL works, and at home [Re: LAgirl]
MayBelle Offline

Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 21
I bought the silkn and it did reduce the hair on my thighs but not as much as I wanted. The hair still comes out but lighter. I've been using it for three months. I hope it will work better in the future.

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