Subscribe & Support This Site!
consumer hair removal forum
Page 1 of 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
Hop To:
#117433 - 02/27/15 02:59 PM Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning!
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3361
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
I ordered and I'm now reviewing a book called "Electrolysis Exam Secrets" a study guide and test review for the Certified Professional Electrologist (CPE) exam (Mometrix, Inc.).

I have only looked at the thing here and there. However, there are horrible errors in nearly every paragraph! Honestly were a person to buy this thing; they would probably do WORSE on the CPE exam.

Clearly the person that put this together knows zero about our field. They have gotten hold of a couple (out dated) books and misinterpreted the out-dated material.

Here are three statements in only three paragraphs:

1) High frequencies should not be used on the facial area. (Page 74)

2) " [with the blend, DC] can cause tissue fragments back upwards resulting in skin lesions, trapping of gasses in the follicle ... where galvanic is performed first." (Page 75 ... no sense to this statement at all")

3) Pre-shaving ... is the desired effect since it is impossible to prevent re-growth during the resting telogen stage. (Page 75)

They talk about "rheostats" controlling the HF. I don't think rheostats have been used since the 1980s?

THIS BOOK SHOULD COME WITH A WARNING! If the association wants me to, I will write a critique of this silly twaddle.

WARNING ... this book will screw you up and is of no value whatsoever.

Top
Thread Sponsors
#117434 - 02/27/15 04:18 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Michael Bono]
depilacionelectr
Unregistered


This means that thanks to this guide you will be a Certified Poor Electrologist? he he


Sorry, I could not help it.

Top
#117442 - 02/28/15 04:40 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: ]
depilacionelectr
Unregistered


Hi Michael, I remember that you said you had collaborated in the writing of texts for access to CPE? if so, where I can get it? I'm really not interested in the examination, or the certificate. Only in the text.

Top
#117443 - 02/28/15 04:49 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: ]
adrien_sanchiz Offline
Top 20 Contributor

Registered: 08/02/13
Posts: 308
Loc: France, Spain
I am interesting to the text too because I would like to study electrolysis. It will be great if I could get access to these texts.
_________________________
Licensed electrologist and esthetician.
http://adrien-sanchiz-electrolysis.blogspot.fr/

Top
#117444 - 02/28/15 08:04 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: adrien_sanchiz]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3361
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
You can purchase the CPE book from the AEA ... $65.00.

I have the newest copy and it's quite excellent. You will not, however, learn how to do electrolysis from the book.

The CPE book will also guide you to some other useful books. (However, they don't mention a few books that would be very useful ... if you actually want to learn this practice.)

Top
#117445 - 02/28/15 09:05 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Michael Bono]
depilacionelectr
Unregistered


I thought it was an "unpublished" text by you.

In this case, thanks, but I'm not interested in buying this guide.

Top
#117446 - 02/28/15 09:29 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: ]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3361
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
If I remember correctly, the CPE book did have an article or so that I wrote. However, since I no longer have the "CPE credential," my contributions were deleted (and my books not mentioned as "recommended").

If you are an electrologist, but not a CPE, you cannot speak or write for the group. It's the rule.

All of this is fine and I support their idea to some degree.

Still, none of my work is for anything except for the CLIENT (first and foremost) ... and also for the actual working electrologist. I'm only hopeful that something I have learned along the way, and written about, can be helpful to my fellow electrologists AND my fellow hairy "brothers and sisters."

The reason that I'm still (and only) here on Hairtell is that the owner has the correct idea: information for everyone ... all for free and in a totally open forum.

Censorship, or preferential treatment ... whatever the rationale ... never really works and is the basis of all authoritarian entities that eventually fail.

Top
#117448 - 03/01/15 03:11 AM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: adrien_sanchiz]
dfahey Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 9670
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
Here! Here! Hip! Hip! to your words, Michael.



Originally Posted By: Maiakochka
I am interesting to the text too because I would like to study electrolysis. It will be great if I could get access to these texts.


Maiakochka,

I see you are from France. Can you describe what electrolysis is like in France? Who can do electrolysis there? What are the training programs like? How long? Where do people go to get good electrolysis care? Anything you can tell me about it would be most helpful.
_________________________
Dee Fahey, R.N., C.T.
Licensed by the State Medical Board of Ohio for Nursing license and Cosmetic Therapy/Electrolysis license
_____________________
ELECTROLYSIS FAQ'S:

British Institute & Association of Electrolysis

http://www.electrolysis.co.uk/?page_id=16

Do not give up, the beginning is always the hardest.

Top
#117449 - 03/01/15 07:37 AM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: dfahey]
adrien_sanchiz Offline
Top 20 Contributor

Registered: 08/02/13
Posts: 308
Loc: France, Spain
Yes indeed, I am French. Actually in France a law from 1962 said that only physicians are allowed to remove hair with other methods wich are not wax and plucking. Namely only physicians (dermatologists) can perform electrolysis in France, according to the law.

However, as I know there is absolutely not electrolysis training program here. I don't have a clue where French dermatologists (only few because the big majority prefer performing laser...) are learning and practicing electrolysis because electrolysis training doesn't exist in medecin university.

Thus, that is the French paradox : only physicians can perform electrolysis here but if they do wrong, it is not a problem... (I am thinking about the clinic du Mantois near to Paris)

So I decided to register in the Institute of Malaga and I am going to practice electrolysis with Josefa. Moreover this Institute can give me a diploma wich is recognized in all European Union (except France as you understand).
_________________________
Licensed electrologist and esthetician.
http://adrien-sanchiz-electrolysis.blogspot.fr/

Top
#117450 - 03/01/15 10:27 AM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: adrien_sanchiz]
dfahey Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 9670
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
Good thing I was lying down when I read this. Incredible.

The short video I saw a while back of a person doing electrolysis in France made me cringe. The poor patient was being fried like an egg. Good thing I was sitting down then when I saw it. It was that bad.

Being that they tax the hell out of their citizens there, you would think they would want to create more taxpayers by allowing non-physicians to perform electrolysis. I heard the French are hairy people, so there would be a huge market to tap.

Maybe you could lobby the lawmakers to re-think this insanely stupid law. As it stands now, if you are hairy, you better be married to a dermatologist that performs electrolysis well. (I'm laughing when I say that because it sounds like there are none.)

I asked the question above because I have been contacted by a person from Paris asking me to remove gray hair that was left after laser in a couple of areas. This person visits their relatives in the United States, a place near me, so it would be a doable thing. Too bad they just can't go to someone in France.

Thank you for the information, Maia. I really appreciate it!
_________________________
Dee Fahey, R.N., C.T.
Licensed by the State Medical Board of Ohio for Nursing license and Cosmetic Therapy/Electrolysis license
_____________________
ELECTROLYSIS FAQ'S:

British Institute & Association of Electrolysis

http://www.electrolysis.co.uk/?page_id=16

Do not give up, the beginning is always the hardest.

Top
#117451 - 03/01/15 11:35 AM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Michael Bono]
Barbara_CPE Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 10/19/05
Posts: 1102
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: Michael Bono
If I remember correctly, the CPE book did have an article or so that I wrote. However, since I no longer have the "CPE credential," my contributions were deleted (and my books not mentioned as "recommended").

If you are an electrologist, but not a CPE, you cannot speak or write for the group. It's the rule.



I don't know how it is NOW, but when I was an officer for the AEA (2008-2013) we changed the "rule" about only allowing CPEs lecture (and surely contribute - but I don't recall your writings ever being deleted). There are many people without the certification who have much experience and knowledge to share with the profession and our decision was made out of respect for you and other professionals. Of course, that may have changed in the last 2 years.....
_________________________
Barbara Greathouse, CPE
Kansas Licensed since 1980
Live by the 4 Agreements: Be impeccable with your word. Don't take anything personally. Don't make assumptions. Always do your best.



Top
#117452 - 03/01/15 11:35 AM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: dfahey]
adrien_sanchiz Offline
Top 20 Contributor

Registered: 08/02/13
Posts: 308
Loc: France, Spain
Originally Posted By: dfahey
Good thing I was lying down when I read this. Incredible.

Being that they tax the hell out of their citizens there, you would think they would want to create more taxpayers by allowing non-physicians to perform electrolysis. I heard the French are hairy people, so there would be a huge market to tap.

Maybe you could lobby the lawmakers to re-think this insanely stupid law. As it stands now, if you are hairy, you better be married to a dermatologist that performs electrolysis well. (I'm laughing when I say that because it sounds like there are none.)


Yes I tkink too that this situation in France is unfair and this law is stupid.
However I can't lobby lawmakers only by myself. But I don't give up hope, maybe one day this law could change !
_________________________
Licensed electrologist and esthetician.
http://adrien-sanchiz-electrolysis.blogspot.fr/

Top
#117453 - 03/01/15 11:39 AM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: adrien_sanchiz]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3361
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
In the 1980s when I was doing a lot of work in the Netherlands, a young physician (25) from Paris attended one of my week-long classes in Alkmaar, Noord-Holland.

He gave me real insight about "electrolysis in France" ... because there was (at that time NO training). Physicians thought that doing electrolysis was EASY and they usually just put a fine needle on their "hyfrecator or Bovie" and then BURNED the hell out of patients.

Sadly, I have no contact with this physician (he would be about 55) and can't remember his name. I have real difficulty with pronouncing French! (My nephew is fluent in French ... German too ... and laughs at me struggling with French.)

But I CAN say, "Je Suis Charlie!"

Top
#117455 - 03/01/15 11:46 AM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Michael Bono]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3361
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
I don't remember too well either Barbara. (I know one chapter was included. But, "big deal.")

I DO remember that I put together the entire "first edition" of the "Guide" ... I scanned all the graphics, formatted the text and converted it to PDF (using Pagemaker). That graphic of the world and flags (with above writing) was one of my drawings ... still in the new version too!

I don't know why AEA pays anyone to do this ... I'd still do it for free! Nobody asks any more.

I may be "out" but not forgotten? he he he I suppose if I got my CPE, then I would be okay again?

Top
#117457 - 03/01/15 01:09 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Michael Bono]
adrien_sanchiz Offline
Top 20 Contributor

Registered: 08/02/13
Posts: 308
Loc: France, Spain
Originally Posted By: Michael Bono


He gave me real insight about "electrolysis in France" ... because there was (at that time NO training). Physicians thought that doing electrolysis was EASY and they usually just put a fine needle on their "hyfrecator or Bovie" and then BURNED the hell out of patients.


That is the point, some french physicians think that electrolysis is easy and perform it in the bad way, some other think that it doesn't work... in the end they give a bad picture of electrolysis. But I hope it will change !

Originally Posted By: Michael Bono

Sadly, I have no contact with this physician (he would be about 55) and can't remember his name. I have real difficulty with pronouncing French! (My nephew is fluent in French ... German too ... and laughs at me struggling with French.)

But I CAN say, "Je Suis Charlie!"


American accent is pretty difficult too for a stranger !


Edited by Maiakochka (03/01/15 01:10 PM)
_________________________
Licensed electrologist and esthetician.
http://adrien-sanchiz-electrolysis.blogspot.fr/

Top
#117458 - 03/01/15 01:35 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Michael Bono]
Barbara_CPE Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 10/19/05
Posts: 1102
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: Michael Bono
I don't remember too well either Barbara. (I know one chapter was included. But, "big deal.")


There have been some very weird versions of the publication. Leigh Henry did a great job on it, though.


Originally Posted By: Michael Bono

I don't know why AEA pays anyone to do this ... I'd still do it for free! Nobody asks any more.

I may be "out" but not forgotten? he he he I suppose if I got my CPE, then I would be okay again?


Someone gets paid to do this? I never got paid for any of my volunteer time. (I have heard that some think the AEA volunteers get rich off the AEA coffers but I am pretty sure that is not true.) Reimbursement for travel and related expenses, but none for the hours of research or lost work hours.

I thought you were quite okay as you are.
_________________________
Barbara Greathouse, CPE
Kansas Licensed since 1980
Live by the 4 Agreements: Be impeccable with your word. Don't take anything personally. Don't make assumptions. Always do your best.



Top
#117462 - 03/01/15 03:55 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Barbara_CPE]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3361
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
Submitting articles is not the same as preparing something for publication (by the way Barbara, YOUR articles are GREAT!) ...

I think that the person doing the websites also puts the publications together? If I remember correctly, that's what Patsy told me. The person would have to use such programs as "InDesign" ... not all that simple these days (requires a "near" expert in the field).

It would be super to have such material on-line in video form (and free).

Top
#117478 - 03/02/15 07:27 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Michael Bono]
EmancipatedElect Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 07/21/14
Posts: 150
A few months back, I had considered joining the AEA... reached out to all of the contact emails on the website and every one of them bounced. Tried to join their FB group and got nothing, fb messaged the head of membership and no reply.

I'm not overly thrilled with the AEA trying to lobby for licensing to begin with, as I believe it does nothing to help the profession, but only exists to keep new people from joining it... and I think the 320 requirement for the CPE is overkill (either you know the information or you don't).

Add in friends that belong to some of the state affiliates talking about how they're anything BUT professional and how some have paid clients to try to blackball other electrologists with the various government agencies and, yeah... I'm not sure the AEA is looking good at all right now and, given my talks with several people and my own experience trying to contact the AEA, I'm not sure I could see myself joining anymore. It's a shame, as they could be doing much good for the profession instead.
_________________________
Emancipated Electrolysis, LLC

Top
#117480 - 03/02/15 09:42 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: EmancipatedElect]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3361
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
I suppose I'm talking with a "forked tongue," because I'm not an AEA member and no longer have my CPE. ... HOWEVER ...

I do support licensing in all 50 States, and a big part of me will always be loyal to the AEA. Licensing has always been a major issue for the AEA. In New York, it's shocking to realize that such a modern State has NO licensing. I mean, you can just buy a machine and start working on people! Look, there are a few real "nasties" out there and without licensing a consumer is pretty much out of luck to get any relief.

Of course I don't support capricious rules either ... and that often happens with State boards. I would like every electrologist to look into what they do in Holland ... in their "ANBOS." If AEA took that position, the industry would be WAY ahead and the association would flourish.

I have talked about the "Dutch way" for YEARS ... until I'm blue, green and purple in the face. Association members just look at me with blank stares. At some point I will write this out ... maybe in another thread. Probably more blank stares?

Damn Americans, we always think we have to INVENT everything ourselves; we always think, "we know better." Well, we don't! Lots of times, other countries are doing things MUCH better, and we don't even bother to look (e.g., the medical system in Switzerland. And, the hydraulic system in Holland.)

Top
#117481 - 03/02/15 10:56 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Michael Bono]
dfahey Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 9670
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
I use to be an AEA member and that's all will say.

Emancipated,

Did you join Electrology International Facebook? I think I added you to the group? You can learn a lot there. Barbara Greathouse is the powerhouse force behind EI. We are so fortunate to have her contributions there.
_________________________
Dee Fahey, R.N., C.T.
Licensed by the State Medical Board of Ohio for Nursing license and Cosmetic Therapy/Electrolysis license
_____________________
ELECTROLYSIS FAQ'S:

British Institute & Association of Electrolysis

http://www.electrolysis.co.uk/?page_id=16

Do not give up, the beginning is always the hardest.

Top
#117482 - 03/02/15 11:37 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: dfahey]
EmancipatedElect Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 07/21/14
Posts: 150
Yeah, I'm in both the EI and Hairtell groups... I'm always looking for more information, insight, etc. I started reading posts here long before I considered electrolysis as a profession and went to school for it and continue to experiment with different probes and whatnot to find what I believe gives my best treatment.

I simply think the AEA fails massively as a "professional" organization (and I dare mention my thoughts on that with some trepidation given the experience a friend had regarding a state affiliate meeting where a member was bragging that she paid her clients to lodge complaints against a competitor, not knowing said competitor was in the audience listening to it).

Outside of the CPE, I don't see where the AEA is helping the profession much at all and even then, the CPE itself is pretty useless as a board certification as, due to the AEA backed state licensing laws, it doesn't even mean you can practice in all states. And, as far as the prestige of it goes, I've met some CPEs that don't know what they're talking about and have butchered people pretty badly... and I've dealt with people coming from licensed states where this happened as well.

It could be that I've just encountered all the downside, but given that every AEA email address bounces, it's not like they can even answer any of my concerns. I've gotten more from the people here and in places like EI/HS than I've gotten from the AEA.
_________________________
Emancipated Electrolysis, LLC

Top
#117484 - 03/03/15 09:19 AM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: EmancipatedElect]
dfahey Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 9670
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
I hear this kind of feedback frequently.

Yes, there is information and mentorship in other places and a CPE doesn't assure that you are better than the best, but it does tell the consumer that the electrologist went the extra tenth of a mile to pay their dues and take a test, in order to belong to the club. In the consumers eye, those extra initials behind the name may send a tingle up their leg, but for the astute consumer, they are more broad minded and know to check out a few electrologists, initialed with a CPE or not initialed with a CPE.

Some times there are shortcomings mixed with snobbery in some organizations. Unfortunately, the hardworking, dedicated, welcoming club members are the ones not remembered. It is those that have created a culture of exclusivity with poor communication skills, among other things, that will be remembered.
_________________________
Dee Fahey, R.N., C.T.
Licensed by the State Medical Board of Ohio for Nursing license and Cosmetic Therapy/Electrolysis license
_____________________
ELECTROLYSIS FAQ'S:

British Institute & Association of Electrolysis

http://www.electrolysis.co.uk/?page_id=16

Do not give up, the beginning is always the hardest.

Top
#117486 - 03/03/15 12:03 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: dfahey]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3361
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
Dee and "E" ...

I think the key concept is this: does the AEA want to be a "RESOURCE," or a "GUILD." One association correctly called themselves the "International GUILD of Professional Electrologists." And, they are a dead organization too. I mean REALLY dead! And, they should be dead.

You can look up the two terms yourself (study the meanings carefully), but these two conflicting themes have resonated in the AEA for decades. The terms are VERY different; in point of fact, contradictory.

"Guild" and "resource" are conflicting terms, just like the two notions that we so easily throw around like "Liberty and Justice" ... these are also opposite ideals. The US Constitution is a "balancing act" between these two epic (and opposite) principles.

The key is this: You cannot be a GUILD and a RESOURCE at the same time! Can a country be a democracy and a dictatorship at the same time? Yeah, it's like that.

So, what is the AEA? THAT'S the real question that has yet to be resolved.

With the advent of the internet the future, in my opinion, points ONLY to "resource." Indeed, guilds used to be the only system ... but that was in the medieval period. Today, guilds ... and trade unions ... are essentially "dead meat," and essentially corporate (benefiting primarily the leaders).

My suggestion to my EXCELLENT friends in the AEA has been not to formulate what they think the public and the profession wants ... but to spend a LOT of time finding out what people actually want! Bottom up ... not top down. You should fulfill the need ... not impose a "solution" (without knowing the need)! It's just that simple!

The frustration that "Emancipated" is so intelligently expressing is, as Dee says, ubiquitous. People don't know exactly why they dislike the AEA ... but the discrepancy between these two ideals is probably at the heart of the matter. I don't believe anyone on the ruling AEA committees understands this whatsoever ... not in the true implementation of the concept of RESOURCE!

And, that's what keeps me from joining and really working for the AEA ...

Resource YES! ... Guild NO!

Top
#117487 - 03/03/15 12:42 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Michael Bono]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3361
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
I just spoke to Patsy about the "CPE issue and people being authorized to speak (write?) for the AEA. Here is her answer:

" ... If the person lecturing is an electrologist they should/must be a CPE.

If the [lecturing] person is an RN, MD, etc., or holds a degree in the topic, they may lecture without being a CPE.

The topic of whether to allow an electrologist who holds a degree in the topic or is very well versed through education on the topic and not a CPE should AEA give CEUs? That's a debate. In the past it comes back to 'are they a CPE'!"

(huh?)

Top
#117492 - 03/03/15 10:47 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Michael Bono]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3361
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
Oh ... Patsy cleared this up a bit more

Okay, here's the deal ...

If you have 10 years experience as an electrologists, and practiced those 10 years, with no CPE, you may lecture on a topic pertaining to electrolysis. If you have a degree, and no CPE, you may lecture on the topic of in which you have a degree.

Top
#117537 - 03/07/15 09:07 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Michael Bono]
depilacionelectr
Unregistered


Michael, I just checked that indeed your books are not included as suggested study materials to pass the exam. This text was copied from the AEA website:

"The Study Guide was used extensively to formulate questions in the test development process. Ancillary texts such as Cosmetic and Medical Electrolysis & Temporary Hair Removal by Richards and Meharg,Electrolysis, Thermolysis And The Blend by Hinkel and Lund, and Milady's Hair Removal Techniques by Bickmore are also suggested study materials."


And this makes me suspicious about their true intentions. Could it be that your books divulge too much useful information for the consumer? or that your books talk about what should be the percentage of acceptable regrowth for a good professional? or that your books refute the stupidity of "only anagen"? or that your books are full of evidence and pictures showing the strategy of the three clearances? and finally, could it be that all this information (as useful as real) contradicts the assertions of some respectable ladies?

If this is the real motivation, I fear that they will fail miserably. They can remove you from their web and their conferences, but may not prevent you upload videos and posts on the Internet. It's hard to gate-keep in a world with no fences!


Because of things like this are what make me feel ashamed to be called electrologist.

Top
#117540 - 03/08/15 10:48 AM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: dfahey]
Barbara_CPE Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 10/19/05
Posts: 1102
Loc: Kansas
Some people might consider attaining the credentials as jumping through unnecessary and expensive hoops, I do wish to tell you that the public does look at the certification in a positive manner. The AEA has provided a consistent and well-thought-out exam for professionals. The AEA has focused on electrolysis/electroepilation rather than spread itself out with other hair removal methods.
_________________________
Barbara Greathouse, CPE
Kansas Licensed since 1980
Live by the 4 Agreements: Be impeccable with your word. Don't take anything personally. Don't make assumptions. Always do your best.



Top
#117543 - 03/08/15 12:05 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Barbara_CPE]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3361
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
I think what Jossie is alluding to is the "officialdom" of AEA offerings; a sort of "thought control" that has been pervasive for decades (although probably better today?) Rather than speak in generalities, here are a few episodes that I did not simply hear about ... I was physically THERE and experienced these first-hand. The following is not hearsay ... I was there!

Wally Roberts: Wally was a true "mega-star" in the profession; the second-generation school owner and the manufacturer of a wonderful thermolysis machine called "Proteus." (I really liked Wally.) During the "early days of laser" Wally, being of scientific mind, explored the new technology. At the same time, the AEA started a virtual "war against laser." (If you used laser, you were kicked out of the AEA. Is this still the case?)

Wally wanted to present his findings to the group, but was FORBIDDEN to attend the convention in New Orleans. He showed up anyway and was ejected from the meeting. Wally and I were talking in the hall, and "security" showed up and threw him off the premises with a warning that the local police would be called if he continued to stay around.

Larry "Lorenzo" Kunze: Larry was a certified "rock star" in our profession and started investigating laser and started a laser curriculum in his school. Larry showed up at the convention and the AEA president walked up to him, returned his convention-paid money and ejected him from the meeting. I sat with Larry for a good hour and was, like Larry, completely stunned. "Hurt feelings" doesn't even come close to describing his reaction.

Of course, my own experience dealt with the 20-year-long "official gag order" that I would also be thrown out were I to DARE speak about telangiectasia or local anesthetic ... even in casual conversations with members.

Patsy Kirby (and Pearl): Since Patsy is one of my best friends, I attended the AEA convention when it was in San Francisco ... mostly to visit with Pats and Keiko and Fumio (Japan). At the time, Patsy was the "director" and the titular head of AEA. When I got there, there was no Patsy. Patsy had gone home (fled), because she was FIRED (by the executive committee) right there on the spot ... at the meeting.

Then again, there was a big nasty "flap" with the new president ... lots of recrimination and threats of lawsuits.

I don't have a specific name for this behavior ... but others could probably find the right word. You cannot experience this kind of "thought control" and continue to have a trusting relationship with such a group. When anyone decides what "TRUTH" is ... that's the end of democracy and the start of authoritarianism.

I'm still an AEA supporter and like the people (individually); they are doing a lot of fine things. I'm not a member, only because there is no transparency or "laissez faire" foundation.

An organization is either "open" or it is not; there is no "middle ground."

Top
#117549 - 03/08/15 10:57 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Michael Bono]
Barbara_CPE Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 10/19/05
Posts: 1102
Loc: Kansas
I've never thought kicking people out of a convention, meeting or the organization was right. All of that was before I was an officer. What I'm saying is having an organization focused on educating electrologists about electrolysis IS important.
_________________________
Barbara Greathouse, CPE
Kansas Licensed since 1980
Live by the 4 Agreements: Be impeccable with your word. Don't take anything personally. Don't make assumptions. Always do your best.



Top
#117550 - 03/09/15 09:13 AM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Barbara_CPE]
EmancipatedElect Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 07/21/14
Posts: 150
I think an organization educating electrologists (and clients) is important as well. But the AEA seems to be run by amateurs. Like I said, in an effort to learn more about them first hand and to express some of my concerns prior to joining, I tried every email address on the website and every single one of them bounced.

Personally, I'd like to see the AEA be a body that I can believe in, but as Michael points out, I'm not sure the AEA even knows what it wants to be and, because there is no real direction, they're failing to accomplish some of the basics they should be up on while acting more like a church persecuting people for heresy if they aren't loyal to the clique.

I'd be glad to join an organization that IS educating electrologists and promoting the business... I just don't see that from the AEA right now (at best, I see the AEA trying to promote protectionism).
_________________________
Emancipated Electrolysis, LLC

Top
#117551 - 03/09/15 10:37 AM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: EmancipatedElect]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3361
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
How could anyone possible be "against education?" Well, I am!

As far as "education," I consider myself an anarchist. Those formulating/promoting "education" always (I mean ALWAYS) steer their curriculum into their own belief system and what "they know!" I have a lot to say on this subject; but at the moment ... let me criticize myself!

After all my years in this profession and doing a ton of things, I have only one regret: writing my book called "The Blend Method!" I wish I had never written it. Think about this a moment:

Let's say you want to learn a new language. You take lessons and you learn the GRAMMAR. You learn what verbs and nouns are, word-order ... the whole mess. However, once you know the language, do you still "do the grammar?" Of course not ... because you know the language. You just talk!

(Actually, language experts that construct "grammar" did not invent the language AT ALL. Instead, grammar is constructed to explain how people already speak the language! The language came first ... the grammar came AFTERWARD!

About a year ago Jane Leahy (Prestige) wrote a piece that stunned me. She said, "Can you imagine that we used to computed units of lye, and count seconds with each hair ... and so forth!" she was, of course, reciting "MY blend grammar." Her article made me physically ill. It was the most damaging thing I had ever read. WHY?

The problem with "the written word" is that the WORD becomes the TRUTH! And, it's NOT! The "grammar" in my book is not LAW ... it was Hinkel's attempt to describe what "blenders" were already doing! The technique came first .... THEN the grammar; but only as a guide!

When I do blend, I do NOT compute units of lye. I do NOT count seconds. And, frankly, I don't use "the blend" anywhere near what I outline in my book. Why? Because my book was just GRAMMAR! Once an electrologist gets a "feel" for the work, she just "speaks the language." She invents her own "way."

And, that's the innate flaw of so-called "education."

Educators wrap themselves up into the written word! They impose these writings on others ... but the specific writings are ALWAYS "what they think is the truth." As education advances, information becomes ever more selective, official, limited and controlled.

Indeed, many officials in the AEA "talk a good talk" about "education." However, I have seen them viciously (albeit covertly) "condemn" and scoff at others that dare challenge own beliefs or understanding. (And, for example, Josefa has been the brunt of this condemnation for a very long time.)

Those promoting "education" usually become "protectors of the truth." Real learning is messy, uncontrolled ... and, with no "official" restraints.

(I don't expect more than a few of you to appreciate the above. And yes, as far as "education" ... I'm an anarchist.)

Top
#117552 - 03/09/15 10:39 AM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Michael Bono]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3361
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
Specific to "Emancipated's" statement: Departments of education are ALWAYS protectionist!

Top
#117553 - 03/09/15 11:33 AM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Michael Bono]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3361
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
Here's another "quote" to think about (mine):

The greatest tyrants of all time call themselves "educators."

Top
#117559 - 03/10/15 01:20 AM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Michael Bono]
dfahey Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 9670
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
I'm with you, Michael on those quotes.

I do want to recognize Barbara as a steadfast, unpaid worker for the the electrolysis profession as a whole. She has put her heart and soul into the AEA in the past and frankly, her efforts to educate us is unsurpassed by ANYONE and I mean ANYONE! I never thought you were given enough recognition as one of the quality leaders in the AEA and I want to publicly thank you once again for all that you have done inside the AEA and for all you do to make our closed blog, outside of the AEA blog, a quality place for new and "old" electrologists to hang out.

I do think these discussions are important as everyone offers useful feedback to make the AEA a better organization. It would be so helpful if open minds would take the feedback with the intended good involved. If Michael didn't care about the viability of the AEA, he would just go surfing with his buddies.

Personally speaking, I'm still doing fine not being an AEA member. I get quality continuing education and the subject matter is more interesting and relevant to what I do. We have a great networking thing going on at our blogs - HairShoot, AEE and Electrology International and there is no sniping (for the most part :/).

October of 2013 did me in with the AEA attitude. My advice would be if you want to clean up the list in the future, think a little harder on how to go about this without P..... off the whole continent of Europe.

Now, it's time to sing, dance and laugh!

_________________________
Dee Fahey, R.N., C.T.
Licensed by the State Medical Board of Ohio for Nursing license and Cosmetic Therapy/Electrolysis license
_____________________
ELECTROLYSIS FAQ'S:

British Institute & Association of Electrolysis

http://www.electrolysis.co.uk/?page_id=16

Do not give up, the beginning is always the hardest.

Top
#117561 - 03/10/15 05:43 AM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Michael Bono]
depilacionelectr
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Michael Bono
I ordered and I'm now reviewing a book called "Electrolysis Exam Secrets" a study guide and test review for the Certified Professional Electrologist (CPE) exam (Mometrix, Inc.).

I have only looked at the thing here and there. However, there are horrible errors in nearly every paragraph! Honestly were a person to buy this thing; they would probably do WORSE on the CPE exam.

Clearly the person that put this together knows zero about our field. They have gotten hold of a couple (out dated) books and misinterpreted the out-dated material.

Here are three statements in only three paragraphs:

1) High frequencies should not be used on the facial area. (Page 74)

2) " [with the blend, DC] can cause tissue fragments back upwards resulting in skin lesions, trapping of gasses in the follicle ... where galvanic is performed first." (Page 75 ... no sense to this statement at all")

3) Pre-shaving ... is the desired effect since it is impossible to prevent re-growth during the resting telogen stage. (Page 75)

They talk about "rheostats" controlling the HF. I don't think rheostats have been used since the 1980s?

THIS BOOK SHOULD COME WITH A WARNING! If the association wants me to, I will write a critique of this silly twaddle. WARNING ... this book will screw you up and is of no value whatsoever.


Go, Michael, do it. Not as a favor to the present, past and future leaders (whom these serious errors seems not to matter at all), but for electrologists who are interested in overcoming this exam, and especially for potential customers who will choose a electrologist based on the possession of these valuable 3 letters, CPE."

Top
#117565 - 03/10/15 09:40 AM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: ]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3361
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
Ah ... my two ladies!

About my "caring about the profession?" It's probably because I don't know anything else. At this point, I'm basically "screwed!" Years ago, when I told my parents what I planned to do for an occupation ... my mother burst into tears! Not figuratively, she really did! I suppose she was hoping I'd pick a "higher ranking profession?" (Mom was right!)

Dee brings up a point. See, on an individual level there is probably not one person in the AEA bureaucracy that is not a super-wonderful, dedicated, lovely, fun, hard-working ... well, you get the idea. So, what is it then?

It's the structure of (nearly all) corporate organizations that creates "group think" and the toxic nature of the group. Individuals in the group? ... MAGNIFICENT! Put them together as a ruling class? ... dictatorial WITCHES!

Look, we would probably find every member of the US congress absolutely intelligent and charming ... and everybody in the executive and judicial branches too. However, its very structure renders the government lethal.

Furthermore, we are geo-politically designed for continued Democratic presidents and Republican congresses (especially the House). There is nothing in our foreseeable future but government instability and inaction: "gridlock." It's all about the structure. (BTW, Dee, seeing Sara Palin always makes me laugh ... but, probably not for the reasons you think!)

One structural change that could improve the AEA would be this: After the election of a new president, the entire "ruling committee" resigns. All new fresh blood comes in, with an agenda free of people that have established themselves as "know-it-alls" (in their own minds).

If you are a leader of an organization long enough, you feel like you own it! Remember: EVERYBODY can be replaced! You know "TERM LIMITS?"

For the old-timer ruling-elite AEA leaders that think, "How can the group survive without ME?" Well, trust me, it CAN. And, YOU are the problem! Yeah, you!

Thank you for all your work and tireless dedication; we love you ... here's your "Oscar" ... let me "kiss your ass" one more time ... now, "get lost!"

But then, my opinions are as worthless as a pile of "merda." And, I know it! Nothing has changed, or will change, in the AEA ... "not never, not no-how!" It's institutionalized. (Don't believe me? Read Thomas Jefferson!)

Top
#117567 - 03/10/15 10:48 AM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Michael Bono]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3361
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
Let me add another "shocking" anecdote to my missive.

Years ago, I spent at least 3-months copying 100% of ALL AEA documents. I put all this on a couple external drives: perfectly organized in "full-German order." My scanner and keyboard was working 5 - 6 hours per day.

I printed out all the materials ... everything ... and assembled all of it in a BIG binder (about 6-inches thick.) Now all AEA stuff was on computer! With each document, I included a full explanation as to how to use each documents ... everything. I even listed the type of paper to use, with samples, and the addresses of all suppliers.

(And, yes, I did this for free ... of course.)

I did this so that ANY NEW in-coming president (or anybody) could immediately figure things out ... easily, and get right to work. I mean, she could get an inquiry from a State about any issue and answer it immediately. It was all there: re-written (in proper English) ... all of it. But what happened?

There was a "toxic take-over" of sorts in the leadership. The outgoing "Ruler" (who had all my materials) despised the in-coming president. AND .... my entire work went missing. I mean the binder was gone, my hard-drives were (probably) destroyed and my months of work went straight to hell! I asked "former leader" what happened and she only said, "I'M not about to help HER!!!!"

So, let me put this in very blunt terms (like my Italian dad would say), "This kind of crap should not happen!" When leadership thinks they are "all that" and they become a dictator, they need to "get lost" ASAP!

Top
#117579 - 03/10/15 03:34 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Michael Bono]
Emendia Offline
Contributor

Registered: 11/16/14
Posts: 25
Michael, you wrote: "After all my years in this profession and doing a ton of things, I have only one regret: writing my book called "The Blend Method!"

That is hysterical! And like your anecdotes I am coming to appreciate statements like that as a "classic Michael Bono response!" I love it.

This did remind me of something I read in John Maxwell's 21 Laws of Leadership some time ago. If you replace the word "leader" with "decent electrologist," I think you get a fairly good representation of what you're describing. As a student I am squarely between phase one and two below, which makes me a sponge - which is not a bad place to be!

Here is a summary of Maxwell's points on Leadership (i.e., "becoming a decent electrologist"):

Successful leaders are life-long learners who apply self-discipline and perseverance. They get a little better each day.

The leadership growth process proceeds in five phases:

In the first phase, you don't know what you don't know.
You are not even aware that you could become a leader [decent electrologist.]

In the second phase, you know that you need to know.
You realize that you need to learn to lead. [and so you buy Michael's book on The Blend, among others.]

In the third phase, you know what you don't know. As you discover the gaps in your knowledge about leadership, you understand what you need to learn.

In the fourth phase, you know and grow, and it starts to show.
When you begin the daily discipline of personal growth, exciting things start to happen. [I hope to get here some day <sigh>]

In the fifth phase, you simply go because of what you know.
The ability to lead becomes automatic, and you develop great instincts that help you to lead effectively. [I think this is what you were talking about Michael, you simply "go with what you know." The grammar be damned.]

Anyway, as a student I want to know it all - blend, thermolysis, and even galvanic. This forum and the one's on Facebook have been a remarkable source of knowledge. Thanks to all you pro's.

And it's also strangely comforting to know that I am learning a trade that is populated by the same gaggle of miscreants and thugs as the one I come from - the medical field! smile

Top
#117580 - 03/10/15 09:57 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Emendia]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3361
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
I reserve the harshest criticism for myself. And, actually when I look at some of my "writing" I could just throw up! I think I'm going to write a follow-up chapter in that book that basically says: "Don't believe anything you just read!" (Would that work?)

I hope nobody in any "official position" is taking this personally? That's never my goal ... but actually, I don't particularly care either.

Nicely, I'm now an old GEEZER and I don't care what people think about me. I used to, but I learned that people will think whatever they want about you and, mostly, it has nothing to do with your trying to be polite, kind or politically correct.

I mean ... damn ... look what they did to Jesus!

So, my only suggestion to the new "Turks" (like you) is to not be afraid of asking question, ruffling feathers, being controversial and kicking some butt now and then. You are young and you are supposed to be a troublemaker! So, make trouble!

Just get to it ... I promise you, you will feel GREAT and remember: "Don't take NOTHING FROM NOBODY!"

And your take on the above is perfect ... 100%!

Top
#117581 - 03/11/15 10:23 AM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Michael Bono]
depilacionelectr
Unregistered


I do not think Helen Bono's tears were because of the status of the profession, she knew well the potential of her son, and although the profession has never enjoyed a deserved social recognition, she knew you would everything possible so that the whole profession could scale positions in the ranking. The reason for her sadness probably was because you were going to enter a world composed predominantly of women. Something like entering a cave full of snakes, where most are harmless and peaceful, while others can not wait to inoculate its deadly poison.

Yes, I agree with your mother. You picked the wrong profession, you should have been a 'snake charmer'!!.

Top
#117583 - 03/11/15 05:16 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: ]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3361
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
Holy herpetology Jossie!

I have to digest "that one" a bit. This time "I'm blow away." I'm usually good for a fast comeback ... not this time! Not that I didn't wickedly enjoy the comment, mind you.

Top
#117590 - 03/12/15 10:49 AM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Michael Bono]
depilacionelectr
Unregistered


So take it easy because I still have not finished. This was just a small appetizer compared to what comes next.

The next time someone from AEA asks you to do something for the group, tell them to ask it to Richards and Meharg, Hinkel and Lund, or Bickmore, since their writings seem to have more relevance in acquiring the necessary knowledge to become a super professional.
Although I know very well that you will not. You will return to sacrifice your free time in favor of an associaton that has never deserved a minute of your time, one of your thoughts, not one of your 'hurt feeling'. Meanwhile I will be mad at you for being too generous and too unconditional to them, and later, of course, I will forget.

And I hope everybody in 'official positions' are taking my words personally, because that's the intention. And for the rest of the group, I also have a little 'shake rattle'. To me those who are using the ridiculous excuse of the 'credentials' to remove the Michael's books in the list, are as responsible as those who have allowed without protest and / or strongly react.

(Please, before asking me to delete this post, let it be some time so everyone can read and digest it)

Top
#117591 - 03/12/15 12:51 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: ]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3361
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
To tell you the absolute truth, Jossie, my feelings are never really hurt (much) and when I'm asked to do pretty much anything, I just do it. I look at the "greater good" (my Christian/Socialist/Liberal ethic?) ... Furthermore, I do not focus on individual people (because they come and go). The idea and the HOPE lives on ...

One criticism of adding the Richards & Meharg book is that it has too much unrelated information (we used to call it the "telephone directory"). I mean why the hell do we have to learn "Kobyashi-Yamada" ... when it's never used here and never even seen. Why (covertly by recommendation) elevate all this twaddle to a learning requirement?

I will say that the book the AEA put together is very good and the CPE test should be based primarily on that ... ONLY!

Hinkel, of course, is my "big daddy," but tons of information is bloody out-of-date. For example the term "rheostat" ... is still in the material. Rheostats have not been used since, probably the 1970s? The term "sudoriferous" has been generally replaced (although not universally) by "eccrine" and "apocrine" gland. Dr. Hamilton, dermatologist once said, "Damn Bono, stop saying "sudoriferous!" He said that in 1985! Using and reading these terms invites confusion: just look at the "Electrolysis Exam Secrets" trying to make sense of it all.

Top
#117593 - 03/12/15 07:04 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Michael Bono]
depilacionelectr
Unregistered


Yup, I have seen a on-line sample of the questionnaire.

http://professionals.electrology.com/pdf/cpe_testbulletin.pdf

In question # 3, I had made a mistake because I could have sworn that the apocrine gland is an appendix that develops in the hair follicle. Of course being cold-blooded creatures, we do not need sweat glands that regulate our body temperature. Could this be the reason?

By the way, I have not been able to find the term "sudoriferous" in any English dictionary. Instead the word "odoriferous" does appear. A hybrid term perhaps? I say this because the main function of the apocrine gland is producing pheromones and thus ensure the continuity of the species. So I wonder, is or is not "sudoriferous gland" part of the hair follicle?

Ummm ... I think I'll get some shade (too much sun here today) or better, I'll hang from a tree branch ... figuratively, of course. wink

Top
#117607 - 03/14/15 07:33 AM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Michael Bono]
depilacionelectr
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Michael Bono
To tell you the absolute truth, Jossie, my feelings are never really hurt (much) and when I'm asked to do pretty much anything, I just do it. I look at the "greater good" (my Christian/Socialist/Liberal ethic?) ... Furthermore, I do not focus on individual people (because they come and go). The idea and the HOPE lives on ...



"The greater good" even if it sounds demagogic, is the final customer. However, AEA leaders seem more interested in preserving their old beliefs than in working for the interests and needs of the public, which after all is the one paying... ie, the BOSS.

The motto of enlightened despotism "Everything for the people but without the people" no longer works. What people today want is an Electrolysis that delivers useful benefits: predictable results, a guaranteed TTT, perfect skin at the end, a clean procedure, and with as little pain as possible.

The main challenge we face is the misinformation. How can we make sure that the garbage is out? Setting up the shredder!
The ills are known and the infuriating thing is that the medicine is known as well. AEA leaders should have the courage to prescribe the right measures and explain it to the people. That's what Michael has been advocating long before I knew him. And in parallel, that is exactly what I tried to convey, at first, my Spanish colleagues, and the rest of the world later.

I see in the new generation that it thinks in a real Electrology, it lives the profession on a daily basis and it has opportunities that the previous generation didn't have. But the AEA has no magnetism for them.


Top
#117608 - 03/14/15 09:56 AM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: ]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3361
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
Jossie, is it any wonder?

Here's a drawing I found today in a dermatology section on-line. Notice what they say about "anagen phase?" Of course, they might be talking about laser ... in which case only anagen hairs can be dispatched when in anagen phase with laser (for reason we already understand).

Of course, this is not the case with electrolysis that can eradicate a hair in any phase of growth: anagen, catagen and telogen (not when the hair is missing from the follicle, of course.)

Still, that "frustratingly idiotic myth" of anagen-only persists.


Top
#117609 - 03/14/15 10:39 AM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Michael Bono]
depilacionelectr
Unregistered


No, it's no wonder. And this is the most unfair and frustrating part. They give more credit to doctors who have not seen a follicle in their life that they give to a non-CPE electrologist who has devoted most of his life killing hairs and studying the dynamics of the cycle.

You have targeted a (conveniently deliberate) mistake, but there is another: Observes the position of the base of the follicle in the "return to anagen". They say: "Dermal papilla moves upward to meet hair follicle once again and hair matrix begins to form new hair".

Is it not reported that the dermal papilla moves down during new anagen?

Top
#117610 - 03/14/15 11:00 AM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: ]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3361
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
Amazing that there is still so much not fully understood about that "simple" hair and follicle! The complexity of life is stunning.

I remember saying that the papilla is a "moving target" and that's probably one of the more important things I've ever said ... whether it goes "upward" to meet up with the matrix and then "goes down," only confirms the movement of the papilla. Then again, some biologists postulate that the anagen follicle "finds" a new papilla.

There is interplay between these many structures for sure ... With your successful technique, Jossie, you are killing off all of the structures and it does not matter where they are in the grwoth cycle! And, that's the only truth that matters!

Top
#117611 - 03/14/15 12:29 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Michael Bono]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3361
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
Jossie,

Once I started doing hair transplant surgery (cutting follicles and re-planting them), was when I really started questioning drawings of follicles. Imagine a heart surgeon that has never seen an actual heart ... just drawings of a heart? Would that work?

Almost none of us have ever seen real hair follicles, and had the opportunity to tug on them (to see where they are held in), and insert a needle into them under magnification. If we had this opportunity ... all silly questions would be OVER!

But that's not what we have! Most drawings ... even new ones ... are RE-DRAWINGS of older drawings; and the myths continue on and on. I'm pretty sure that the drawing in Hinkel's book (1968) caused us to make the wrong conclusions about follicles, and consequently we adapted techniques based on the DRAWING! We assumed the papilla "stayed put." And then there was all this "dermal cord" business, and "can't kill a hair in telogen" shit. We examined a DRAWING not a REAL follicle.

Hinkel's book still contains the incorrect drawing and YES it is used as a key reference for the CPE exam: after all Hinkel's book is still the main reference; just wrong in a bunch of places. Yep, still confusing students after all these decades!

Anyway, I got fed up trying to understand the drawing that was in William Montagna's (and Hinkel's) book. Montagna was/is THE skin and hair authority.

NOT being afraid to look stupid ... I wrote to Dr. Montagna and said, "I don't get it!" The following is his actual letter to me (excerpt) ... I saved it!

25-years ago ... and we are sill making the same "friggin'" mistakes.

August 1990
Dear Mr. Bono

" ... In all of the stages of the cycle, the dermal papilla is never far from the field of action. In the diagram of the three main states, the catagen stage shown as not yet released the papilla. In the diagram on page 42 [Hinkel's book], the papilla was left out of the drawing. I must have been dozing when I checked the drawing for accuracy. All that remains of the bulb cells is the mass fat which forms the hair germ ... "

Top
#117612 - 03/14/15 01:52 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Michael Bono]
depilacionelectr
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Michael Bono


25-years ago ... and we are sill making the same "friggin'" mistakes.

August 1990
Dear Mr. Bono

" ... In all of the stages of the cycle, the dermal papilla is never far from the field of action. In the diagram of the three main states, the catagen stage shown as not yet released the papilla. In the diagram on page 42 [Hinkel's book], the papilla was left out of the drawing. I must have been dozing when I checked the drawing for accuracy. All that remains of the bulb cells is the mass fat which forms the hair germ ... "



oh, yes, I think they called it: "Ghost space" or something similar.

Michael, there are two things I would like to know.

The first is related to electrologists operating in California. If I am not mistaken, Hinkel's school was located in this state, what percentage of members who attended this school would you say are currently belonging to the AEA?


And second, what you think of this statement?: "Stem cells at rest in the bulge area are more heat-resistant than progenitor cells and are therefore harder to destroy."



Top
#117613 - 03/14/15 04:34 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: ]
beate_r Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 07/25/05
Posts: 898
Loc: Hattersheim, Germany
Should we really comment on the quoted statement?

But i think i have already read that statement some time ago.
_________________________
Beate Ritzert

Elektroepilation Dr. Beate Ritzert
http://epi.ritzert.net/en/

Top
#117614 - 03/14/15 05:04 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: beate_r]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3361
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
The stem cell statement is fascinating! I have no idea.

Top
#117615 - 03/14/15 05:05 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Michael Bono]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3361
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
Hey Jossie,

All members of the California Association are automatically members of the AEA: it's called affiliation. Here they are:

http://www.electrologycalifornia.org/

I was going to say some nice things about education in California and the high level of electrology ... until I watched a video by a stupid idiot! Take a look at the second video; her "interview."

Seriously, she had a 50% chance to get it right ... and she got it WRONG. She says, "DC electrolysis causes ACID in the follicle and 'hurts like hell'." I wonder where this "black widow" went to school, and how she managed to pass the State Board exam?

This woman exemplifies everything that is wrong with this profession.

http://hairfreeforever.net/video/

Top
#117616 - 03/14/15 05:57 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: beate_r]
depilacionelectr
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: beate_r
Should we really comment on the quoted statement?

But i think i have already read that statement some time ago.



Since the AEA bases its recommendations on such statements, yes, I think it is relevant and appropriate to comment on them.

Top
#117617 - 03/14/15 06:07 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Michael Bono]
depilacionelectr
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Michael Bono
The stem cell statement is fascinating! I have no idea.


Does this mean that you have not noticed any difference in heat resistance between stem cells and progenitor cells? the truth is that I have not noticed a difference either.
Too bad the author of this curious statement does not specify the causes of this hypothetical resistance.

Top
#117618 - 03/14/15 06:25 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Michael Bono]
depilacionelectr
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Michael Bono
Hey Jossie,

All members of the California Association are automatically members of the AEA: it's called affiliation. Here they are:

http://www.electrologycalifornia.org/

I was going to say some nice things about education in California and the high level of electrology ... until I watched a video by a stupid idiot! Take a look at the second video; her "interview."

Seriously, she had a 50% chance to get it right ... and she got it WRONG. She says, "DC electrolysis causes ACID in the follicle and 'hurts like hell'." I wonder where this "black widow" went to school, and how she managed to pass the State Board exam?

This woman exemplifies everything that is wrong with this profession.

http://hairfreeforever.net/video/


I think in this case continuing education should be replaced by basic education.

"As a member of the American Electrology Association and the Electrologist Association of California she finds continuing education an essential part of practicing Permanent Hair Removal as an Allied Health Field."

Top
#117619 - 03/14/15 06:38 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: ]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3361
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
Auch meine Waffe!

Top
#117621 - 03/15/15 05:40 AM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: ]
beate_r Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 07/25/05
Posts: 898
Loc: Hattersheim, Germany
_________________________
Beate Ritzert

Elektroepilation Dr. Beate Ritzert
http://epi.ritzert.net/en/

Top
#117622 - 03/15/15 08:38 AM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: beate_r]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3361
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
Genau! Ich hoffe Sie lachen. Ja, wir haben uns ein schoenes Geheimnis!

Top
#117623 - 03/15/15 02:53 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Michael Bono]
depilacionelectr
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Michael Bono
Amazing that there is still so much not fully understood about that "simple" hair and follicle! The complexity of life is stunning.

I remember saying that the papilla is a "moving target" and that's probably one of the more important things I've ever said ... whether it goes "upward" to meet up with the matrix and then "goes down," only confirms the movement of the papilla. Then again, some biologists postulate that the anagen follicle "finds" a new papilla.

There is interplay between these many structures for sure ... With your successful technique, Jossie, you are killing off all of the structures and it does not matter where they are in the grwoth cycle! And, that's the only truth that matters!


Yes, I agree, this is the only thing that matters, especially for the customer.

However, I'm looking for answers, and when someone says stem cells located in the bulge are more heat-resistant than progenitor cells, I need some scientific explanation to support this statement (even if who says such a thing is an authority as the Dr. Douillon).

Like you, Michael, I question everything, including my own conclusions, for that reason, a claim with no other purpose than to keep alive an old hypothesis in order to satisfy the ego of a large part of the group (the "only anagen" school) and which contradicts the results of the other half of the group (including you and me), represents nothing at all for me.

Top
#117628 - 03/15/15 07:06 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: ]
fenix Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 03/17/12
Posts: 514
Question for professionals: Let's say tomorrow the AEA rewrites all literature and starts promoting "Telogen hair ALSO." What will change in the way eletrologists treat hair? It's not like electrologists see the bulge and papila and where stem cells are when they do 20,000 insertions daily. How will their technique improve to achieve high kill rate with each clearance if electrology instructors no longer taught "Anagen Only"? In what ways can training change besides promoting the scientific side of hair follicle anatomy and teaching that Telogen hair can be killed?

Top
#117629 - 03/15/15 07:55 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: fenix]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3361
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
I suppose it's like this (to me at least). Certainly ancient mariners did very well sailing here-and-there in the "known world" ... and they were certain the world was flat. It's just that it's NOT flat ... facts should be facts as an end in themselves.

(BTW recognizing different growth stages DOES indicate where the target area is located.)

Those that follow a strict "anagen only protocol," instruct clients to shave between treatments (so telogen hairs are not visible). Overall, this could slow the process ... although a few use this practice as their "secret method." (I always thought it was a lame excuse for bad treatments.)

Still, I don't think that this is much of an issue.

The real issue is the intransigence of "official information." Facts should be without emotion or vested interests. All information and techniques should be subject to scientific review and evaluation. (That will never happen.) "Anagen only" is only a symptom of a much wider problem. You have NO IDEA of the shit I have heard over the years ... and most of it continues unabated.

For example, some genius in Holland just made a new RULE. See, she believes that if the needle produces some "DC froth" and it gets on the skin you will get a BURN and a SCAR. Never mind the 150 years of using DC this way ... oh no, this Noble Prize winner knows better. So now, students are taught to turn down the DC until they see no DC reaction.

And it's THIS sort of odd silliness that still sends me off in "blather-land." Wanna hear more official TRUTHS?

Top
#117630 - 03/15/15 10:34 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Michael Bono]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3361
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
More to your point, Fenix. When I'm treating all the stages of hairs, I am making constant adjustments as to depth of insertion (where the target is located), and time in the follicle (compensating for HF "current rise".) My "timing" is only within, say, 1.5 seconds (or less), but these minute fractions of time variation are critical and make a very big difference.

How do I recognize stages of hair growth? I'm judging multiple factors, but at this point I'm on "auto-pilot." I don't perform the procedure at a "conscious level."

Ask an experienced pianist if they think about "where their fingers are going." It's at another level of perception.


Edited by Michael Bono (03/15/15 10:36 PM)

Top
#117635 - 03/16/15 07:59 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: fenix]
depilacionelectr
Unregistered


Don't worry, Fenix, nothing will change.

There are more chances that you find an electrologist who does 20.000 insertions daily than the AEA admits their mistakes and rewrites the texts.

Top
#117636 - 03/17/15 09:17 AM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: ]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3361
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
Each one of the following "rules" was either part of a curriculum, in a book, or expressed by a teacher (at one of my seminars). Each idea caused me endless discussions/disagreements with the perpetrator; and not one of them changed their minds. I was wrong and they were right! ENJOY and lament:

1) HF (thermolysis) is a form of EMF (electro-magnetic field) and is therefore a cancer risk. Don't use thermolysis on the eyebrows because it will denature the eye lens and cause cataracts. Don't use HF on the face because it can cause brain cancer.

2) Electrologists using HF die early because of exposure to their own machines.

3) DC puts ACID in your skin and body. (This from a prominent AEA/EAC member: a "certified educator.")

4) DC puts lye (a BASE by the way) in your blood, and the lye goes to your liver, brain and kidneys and destroys them.

5) DC froth coming out of the follicle burns the skin and causes scars.

6) You don't need to sterilize needles. Just attach the needle, hold it in the air and put the HF on: that sterilizes the needle.

7) Only use a rough needle not a polished one. (A polished needle eliminates the benefits of DC.) (In a book.)

8) Always insert (blend) with the DC on first. If you don't, the HF will dry out the follicle and your DC will be rendered ineffective. (In a book.)

9) You have to drink lots of water or your skin gets dehydrated and the currents won't work properly.

10) DC (or HF) causes birth defects.

11) You cannot kill a hair in telogen (or catagen) stage.

12) If you epilate a hair and you see no root, that's because you broke off the hair and did a bad treatment.

13) Treating a hair in a mole causes cancer.

14) Thermolysis causes overtreatment and scars. Electrolysis causes overtreatment and scars. Blend causes overtreatment and scars. Take your pick?

15) (Voiced at several seminars): AIDS/HIV is God's punishment against gays.

16) Years of performing electrolysis causes lower I.Q. THIS ONE IT TRUE!

Top
#117642 - 03/17/15 08:45 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Michael Bono]
depilacionelectr
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Michael Bono

16) Years of performing electrolysis causes lower I.Q. THIS ONE IT TRUE!


HAHAHAHA

Yeah, maybe inhale too much froth from DC current adversely affects neurons.

Top
#117646 - 03/18/15 12:29 AM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Michael Bono]
SIGMA Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 05/03/14
Posts: 77
Originally Posted By: Michael Bono
9) You have to drink lots of water or your skin gets dehydrated and the currents won't work properly.

...The AEA is STILL pushing this one. It appears as a flashing "Electrolysis Tip" on their homepage.

Hydrate, hydrate, hydrate!
Drinking plenty of water helps unwanted hair slide right out.

Top
#117647 - 03/18/15 12:32 AM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: SIGMA]
Brenton Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 06/09/11
Posts: 721
Loc: SoCal
Originally Posted By: SIGMA
Originally Posted By: Michael Bono
9) You have to drink lots of water or your skin gets dehydrated and the currents won't work properly.

...The AEA is STILL pushing this one. It appears as a flashing "Electrolysis Tip" on their homepage.

Hydrate, hydrate, hydrate!
Drinking plenty of water helps unwanted hair slide right out.



I haven't heard any electrologist say that it helps the hair slide out, but I have heard a vast majority say it helps with the pain.

Top
#117648 - 03/18/15 12:57 AM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Brenton]
dfahey Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 9670
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
That number 9 had me thinking, as well. I always ask my clients to come to me hydrated for both reasons mentioned. We can lower the energy level if the skin is hydrated and that's can make the treatment more comfortable. So there is no truth to that?
_________________________
Dee Fahey, R.N., C.T.
Licensed by the State Medical Board of Ohio for Nursing license and Cosmetic Therapy/Electrolysis license
_____________________
ELECTROLYSIS FAQ'S:

British Institute & Association of Electrolysis

http://www.electrolysis.co.uk/?page_id=16

Do not give up, the beginning is always the hardest.

Top
#117649 - 03/18/15 01:10 AM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: dfahey]
SIGMA Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 05/03/14
Posts: 77
Dee, in your experience do you think that using topical moisturizers ahead of a treatment (say overnight) is more beneficial than drinking water? I have usually opted for this, instead of drinking a lot of water, just for the pragmatic concern of bathroom breaks during a long session.

Thanks!

Top
#117650 - 03/18/15 09:46 AM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: SIGMA]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3361
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
Dr. Chapple (plastic surgery), Charles Hamilton (dermatology) and James Tolin (physiologist) said that the requirement of drinking LOTS of water being necessary for HF to work properly ... is an overstatement ... a fairy tale.

In actual (real) dehydration, many events take place; but skin drying out or even applying oil doesn't do much (except to the epidermis ... which is of little importance to the electrolysis treatment. The zapper-reaction takes place in the dermis and "hypodermis," (AKA "subdermis," AKA "subcutaneous layer" ... lots of other AKAs).

Drinking good amounts of liquids, however, is a splendid idea (most of us do not drink enough), but largely to maintain a plethora of (mostly internal) advantages. Being well hydrated also makes you feel better and thus probably makes the treatment more tolerable? I think so ... based on my own fairy tales.

I don't think the dermis dries out if you don't drink 8-glasses of water before the treatment. I think drinking a lot of water before a treatment will mostly cause you to pee a lot and require many toilet breaks. You would (perhaps) have to cause an actual lowering of blood volume to have skin dehydration? My guess anyway.

I think that the idea of "being well hydrated" is good advice (for the skin, internal organs and blood chemistry): but take liquid throughout the day. I think the idea has been greatly overblown ... to the point of "the current will not work properly unless you drink copious amounts of water beforehand." Who started that?

Tiny excellent suggestions are, in our "People Magazine culture," often exaggerated and blown out of all reasonable proportion.

Vitamins are excellent. Does a normal healthy person need to take HANDFULS of vitamins? Do you have to take tons of vitamins "or your skin will not heal from electrolysis?" Exercise is wonderful. Do you need to spend hours in the gym every day or run 17-miles every day? (Actually, I have a female client that DOES run 17-miles every day!) Well-formed BOOBS are nice. Do women need to look like Dolly Parton? When you enter a room, do your boobs have to get there first?

We overdo EVERYTHING and exaggerate everything in "these United States of America!" And, you can stick that right up your Benghazi (or up your "no weapons of mass destruction" ... if you're a Democrat!)


Edited by Michael Bono (03/18/15 09:48 AM)

Top
#117651 - 03/18/15 10:03 AM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Michael Bono]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3361
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
True story:

A male client "Robby," read the AEA website about needing liquids/water for a proper treatment.

His answer was to drink SIX BEERS before treatment ... you know "beer/water?" ... Beer seemed like a nicer idea! And, beer is mostly WATER.

He felt less pain! Hey, a new AEA suggestion?

Top
#117652 - 03/18/15 10:30 AM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Michael Bono]
SIGMA Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 05/03/14
Posts: 77
Dana Carvey did a character on SNL who would use the expression "like June Allyson after a friggin' six-pack!"
smile

Top
#117654 - 03/18/15 12:11 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: SIGMA]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3361
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
Fear of bad nutrition.

Americans are obsessed with vitamins, exercise, good looks, and all-things-healthy ... not bad, mind you. BUT, being fearful that we don't have enough vitamins so our skin won't heal, or thinking we have to put every product even made on post-treatment skin ... or drink a gallon of water ...

Look, it's like this: ONE fat American has enough nutrients in his/her body to feed a small country in Africa ... for a YEAR!

Top
#117655 - 03/18/15 05:41 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Michael Bono]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3361
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
From an online source:

"Think of it like this: Because leather is dry, a leather chair needs to be conditioned with oil to prevent it from drying out. If you apply water to a leather chair, it only gets drier. Bottom line: Dehydrated skin still produces oil, but feels tight, whereas dry skin produces little to no oil and can be flakey. And, while drinking water is great for your overall health, no amount of gulping will truly hydrate your skin."

Full article:
http://www.refinery29.com/2013/12/58635/dry-dehydrated-skin-differences

All the articles I've read so far talk about dehydration/dryness as affecting the epidermis (upper layers/cornium). I will continue searching, but so far have found the issue not significant for the dermis (where electrolysis takes place).

Top
#117659 - 03/19/15 01:33 AM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Michael Bono]
SIGMA Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 05/03/14
Posts: 77
As an aside, there was that thread a couple of years ago -- "carbon dye for gray hair" -- I can't paste the link -- that offered insights on how the follicle differs from other parts of the skin in terms of absorption. Thanks Mike!

Top
#117661 - 03/19/15 09:22 AM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Michael Bono]
Barbara_CPE Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 10/19/05
Posts: 1102
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: Michael Bono


6) You don't need to sterilize needles. Just attach the needle, hold it in the air and put the HF on: that sterilizes the needle.



The woman who trained me believed in this one with one addition. Pinch the needle with a cotton wetted with antiseptic while stepping on the footswitch will sterilize the needle. Explains the fact she only bought a dozen needles every month or so.
_________________________
Barbara Greathouse, CPE
Kansas Licensed since 1980
Live by the 4 Agreements: Be impeccable with your word. Don't take anything personally. Don't make assumptions. Always do your best.



Top
#117668 - 03/19/15 12:31 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Barbara_CPE]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3361
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
I've been thinking about this: "Less current in moist skin ... more current in dry skin. Is higher current more painful than lower current?" Probably NOT.

The point is that it's not the HF CURRENT that kills follicles; it's the thermal REACTION to the current that kills the follicle. Consider this:

In order to destroy a follicle, you must achieve a specific temperature in the follicle; this would be your "minimum absolute."

I don't know the actual number, but let's say 100-degrees. If you only produce 80-degrees, you generate no "cooking." You must achieve, whatever the technique, the 100-degree absolute. Because you must!

If you have dry skin, you use more HF current to achieve the minimum 100-degrees. With moist skin, indeed you use less current, but you are still making the same 100-degrees (if properly executed).

Once you get to the minimum absolute temperature, the follicle is being "cooked." The reaction is the same in all cases, whatever the current strength ... and would feel the same too. A burn is a burn.

Top
#117685 - 03/20/15 11:54 AM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Michael Bono]
Emendia Offline
Contributor

Registered: 11/16/14
Posts: 25
According the Hinkle/Lind book coagulation starts at 127 degrees, while dessication starts at 212 degrees (F.)

Here's a thought experiment: Let's say I take a hot dog and stick it in the microwave oven, and let's say it is a bit dried out because I left it on the countertop all day. The microwave is set at 90% intensity. After 10 seconds, I pull out the hot dog, and it's still a bit under cooked... what do I do?

I could increase the intensity on the microwave to 100%, and I probably should even though it is already pretty dry... and/or I could give it a few more seconds, which is what I would probably do.

Then again, what I'd probably really do is say "screw it" and go to Pink's for a real hot dog.

Oh, and because the hot dog is more moist at the center, and therefore more conductive there, it would cook more in the center before it cooks the outer dryer parts smile

Top
#117687 - 03/20/15 12:24 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Emendia]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3361
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
Emendia, I don't understand your post ... but remember most DEARLY the 127 degrees!

I sort of avoid this actual number and remember "fondly" a 3-hour, no ALL DAY, discussion about this in Karlsruhe (Germany). The drive down from Bonn with Herr Herfs, in his lime-green Mercedes ... at 500 MPH, was "exciting" too! (It took me an hour to stop shaking.)

I was visiting Deutsche-Nemectron and talking with Frank Nippel und Herr Meier on a bunch of related issues. I mentioned the 127 degrees, and that launched the entire group into "sooooo, what is the precise temperature (gewesen sein)?"

In brilliant German fashion, we even went down to the "lab" and started conducting experiments.

I never got around to the main reason I was there! We never came up with the correct answer either. Herr Nippel sagt, "Coagulation in living tissue is different than in non-living tissue and different in specific tissues (?)" ... the basis of our all-day experimentation.

Top
#117689 - 03/20/15 05:31 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Michael Bono]
Emendia Offline
Contributor

Registered: 11/16/14
Posts: 25
Actually we just saw a video by Dr. Schuster, and indeed, there is not a precise temperature; rather it's a range, which you no doubt found in your day-long experimenting smile If I ever get to visit Europe, I really hope I spend it eating great food and not in a lab. I can't imagine how scary the autobahn would be!

Top
#117691 - 03/20/15 07:47 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Emendia]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3361
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
I lost two toupees on the Autobahn.

Top
#117693 - 03/20/15 08:11 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Michael Bono]
fenix Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 03/17/12
Posts: 514
Michael, toupees are 80s technology. The new thing in town is called a "hair system." It doesn't fly as easy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCJd0Wr9sm4


Edited by fenix (03/20/15 08:11 PM)

Top
#117706 - 03/20/15 09:44 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: fenix]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3361
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
I'm very familiar with this ... not a good option, unless you want to get fiddled with every week ... still a toupee ... just stuck on like crazy.

Top
#125661 - 01/19/18 01:56 AM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Michael Bono]
Ton Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 07/02/16
Posts: 53
Originally Posted By Michael Bono
I mean why the hell do we have to learn "Kobyashi-Yamada" ... when it's never used here and never even seen.


That's where you're probably wrong, Michael! Junko's Electrolysis at 102 Brahms Ave in North York, Ontario, Canada, M2H 1H6:

"Using Japanese Hi-Tec (Kobayashi-, Yamada Method), no Hair Regrowth-Zero Scarring, Completed In 10-15 Treatments; Using Japanese Hi-Tec (Kobayashi-Yamada Method) no Hair Regrowth-Zero Scarring Completed In 10-15 Treatments; Using Japanese Hi-Tec, no Hair Regrowth-Zero Scarring, Completed In 10-15 Treatment"

words taken verbatim from:

https://www.cylex.ca/company/junkos-electrolysis-12079884.html

Ha ha ha ha! So it IS being performed in North America! Actually, probably not:

Perhaps Junko just means that they use the same weird needles that the HR5000 uses, or uses the HR5000 machine at much lower settings (if that's even possible), because I don't think it would take 10-15 treatments if you're really doing Kobayashi-Yamada, because if it's being performed properly, it would only take four sessions at the most.


I just saw an opportunity for a joke. The unconventional grammar of Junko's write-up makes it unclear whether she's just using their needles and/or machine or actually using their technique, so perhaps she isn't lying.

Top
#125668 - 01/19/18 10:10 AM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Michael Bono]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3361
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
Funny man ... thanks.

Actually, a couple years ago TBC wanted me to sell this type of needle (the 90 degree beauties) to electrologists in N. America. I "pitched" them ... it was not a "go."

Top
#125678 - 01/19/18 12:10 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Michael Bono]
Iluv2zap Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 11/19/14
Posts: 1375
When I did electrolysis school, the kobiyashi-yamada method was still taught. I too had never heard of it used in north america.I am wondering however if that is what the fellow having electrolysis done at the yanhee hospital was having done? If so that would be the only reference I am aware of that method being used in hairtell history.
_________________________
Seana Richmond
Certified Electrologist.
Electrolysis By Seana
http://electrolysisbyseana.com

Top
#125680 - 01/19/18 03:14 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Michael Bono]
Ton Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 07/02/16
Posts: 53
Yes, I'm pretty sure it must have been, because Kostik, the poster who was having it done, posted photos of the HR5000 machine and photos of those 90-degree angle needles. He wrote that he had lidocaine injections and that when the needle strayed from a frozen area, it hurt like a Dickens.

Top
#126588 - 05/12/18 09:58 PM Re: Electrolysis Exam Secrets ... warning! [Re: Michael Bono]
Ton Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 07/02/16
Posts: 53





Originally Posted By Michael Bono
the epidermis ... which is of little importance to the electrolysis treatment. The zapper-reaction takes place in the dermis and "hypodermis," (AKA "subdermis," AKA "subcutaneous layer" ... lots of other AKAs).

I'm reading some literature from an electrolysis manufacturer, and they wrote, "We know skin moisture is concentrated in the dermis and the Malpighian layer of the epidermis." Yet in the same section by the same manufacturer, they have a diagram of a cross-section of skin where the have the labels "Hypodermis/High moisture", "Dermis /Normal moisture" and "Epidermis /Low moisture". In the diagram they have the bulb and where the papilla should be look like they are between the hypodermis and the dermis. Shouldn't they have written, We know that skin moisture is concentrated in the hypodermis and the dermis"? Or is the hypodermis not considered "skin" because it's adipose tissue?


Edited by Ton (05/12/18 11:15 PM)

Top
Page 1 of 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 >

Moderator:  Andrea 
Sponsored Links
Recent Posts
Feeling Sad
by Fairygirl
47 minutes 26 seconds ago
Thinning Male Beard Question- NOT Complete Removal
by janaka
Yesterday at 04:08 AM
Hair Route Mag
by dfahey
05/26/18 10:20 PM
Electrolysis/Laser Feet, opinion - pic attached
by Josefa M. Reina
05/26/18 03:09 PM
What is better?? 10ms or 3ms and why??
by Iluv2zap
05/26/18 01:59 PM
Top Posters
LAgirl 9994
dfahey 9670
James W. Walker VII 8055
Andrea 4157
Michael Bono 3361
Who's Online
0 registered (), 89 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod