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#122230 - 07/13/16 08:20 PM Pain relief with injection - bad idea?
kljutsh Offline
Contributor

Registered: 04/08/16
Posts: 12
Loc: estonia/finland
I'm female with PCOS, started electrolysis recently and whilst I've been managing pain fairly fell, we've now moved on to new area which has put me at not being able to handle the pain or continue with sessions on that area.

Method: electrolysis, thermolysis
Machine: Шмель-1000 (Russian manufacturer, very simple/cheaper level machine...)
Propbe: do not know, but I know she uses "thicker" in some areas and "thinner" in extra sensitive areas.

I have fairly (?) tense dark curly-sh (under skin at-least - lots of ingrown) hair with long roots (as commented by electrologist).

This is a bit outdated picture and done with phone, but should give the picture. That is 3 days without a shave: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Sp-tyGQ4mCI/VMAlbxehAfI/AAAAAAAAIqE/AWScjK4x6-Q/s1600/picture.jpg

My first sessions (345 min, 10 days later 415 min, 6 days later 115 min) were done without pain remedies and the areas treated to get first clearance were sides, cheeks, upper lip - everything of "face" including jawline itself. That took some 850-900 min to complete as in many places several hairs were coming out from same follicle (not sure if I'm using correct terminology here) and on some areas she used weaker "wave". Thin layer of Emla 5% was used for upper lip area to relief pain. Still hurt like hell, but managed tolerating it.

Before those sessions I drank a lot of water (days before and during sessions), had no coffee, ate super healthy, did lots of exercise days before sessions, slept full hours etc.

Now we've moved on under the jaw-line area. And uh.. Uhhh!!!

We tried EMLA 5 % which is prescription med here in Estonia. We tried applying it by massaging it in, covering with transparent foil and tried different times of application. Contact with skin was very tight and so on. All as it should be (after also having had read on this forum, that indeed my electrologist did all well there). Unfortunately, besides numbing the top of the skin, the area under the skin where the follicles are being penetrated, felt as bad as without EMLA.

We also tried LIDOCAIN SPRAY. It is not sold in my country, so I've brought it myself from my trips. We tried one produced in Ukraine (weaker) and one produced in Hungary (stronger). Again, we tried various methods of applying, but it again had no help for me besides numbing the very top of the skin and making no difference to when the procedure was done and roots penetrated by electrologist.

Unfortunately no other topical creams or pain reliefs are available in my country.

I've also tried taking PAIN-MEDS: 1000 mg of Paracetamol or Ibuprofen.. Yet still I'm twitching and jumping when treated under the jaw-line area (beard, neck).

I wish to proceed, but also for electrologist it is hard with me twitching, no matter how much I try not to while trying to be as relaxed as possible and breath calm and all that. I am not afraid of pain and as I wrote, my previous sessions on the face area went smooth and I even fell a sleep multiple times!

There's been week since last session, nervous system is very relaxed and there is no tension in my life at the moment either, so this should not be the problem either.

However, after last unsuccessful trying session today, to get going again on that area and get working towards first clearance of that area, - I simply couldn't do more than 100 minutes with weakest wave and thinnest/smallest probe (sorry, not sure of terminology of this in English), which meant she had to "pulse" the follicles sometimes several times and trying to strengthen the "wave", cause the hair wouldn't release with such weak wave/pulse.. - and we (I) had aimed to do 500 min - we had just covered two very tiny areas and were both stressed and tired after 100 min..

Since the electrologist is based in a clinic/hospital, we discussed what could we do, what about dentist? None of electrologists previous clients have needed anything stronger than Emla or Lidocain, but she agreed that obviously neither of them is working for me.

So I consulted with one dentist in the building about possibility to make injections to numb me deeper under skin, some few millimetres should do to help continue with the areas under jawline. The dentist after thinking about it and looking over the area and talking to electrologist agreed to help me. Female herself, she understood my issue. The dentist solution price wise should also be OK, as she would charge the regular price range for the injection and not for her time (cool, right?), so one injection would be 5 EUR. That is CHEAP.

Now though I've been researching about such injections being done with cases of electrology sessions, as I'm thinking I could then do 4-5 hour sessions at electrologist which means I should get one injection in the morning and one in the afternoon..

But researching about this I'm finding nearly no results and I'm wondering, if there is a reason why people are not combining these, in similar cases?

I obviously do not wish anyone saying, yes, sure, go and do injections - I will for sure consult about this with my medical doctor and with my regular dentist and continue research and will ask and check and triple check that the injections are OK in those dosages for my hight-weight-age, but I'm simply worried that well, usually I would get one such shot maybe a year when visiting a dentist and now making it into a habit? What effects might such thing have in organism?! Is this all crazy?

I've read that topical creams are most common, sometimes combined with pain killers, and even read the thread here about nitrous oxide questions and thoughts (which sounded like a bad idea and not available here ANYWAY!), but didn't really read or find any experiences on injection cases. Is this a very very bad idea? Should I be questioning my electrologists machine (too simple, too little options this little Russian machine...?) and probe and doubting in it? Should I be "manning up" and simply doing way shorter sessions on the whole under jawline / beard area, e.g. 10-15 min a day? Would take me probably 3 months going every day to get first clearance and with electrologist being 1,5h away, I'd be spending 3 hours just on travel each day.. Well, that I could probably even do, I'm very very motivated!

And this is the whole thing.. I feel and know that after first clearance next sessions will be easier, bit less painful very likely also on that area.

Or am I really that much of a pain-pussy, which I do not think I am? I handle depilation on rest of my body without any problems, I visit dentist always with pleasure, .. I really am not afraid of pain, but it is my nervous system that is saying "hell no" to my treatments..

Thanks for thoughts, either critical or not!
And sorry for this post for being so very long.

PS! There is only 4 places in my country where to have electrolysis, of which 3 I have not tried but I've read tons of reviews of them not knowing what they're doing and of people having been scarred or reviews of seeing no results after going for 3+ years (sounds fishy!!!); also when asked if they have paper that they have been trained - no proof has been provided.

And then there is this 4th place, located in a hospital/clinic and the electrologist is trained as nurse in Russia and after having severe hirsutism issues herself, trained in electrology and changed occupation. Love brought her later to Estonia, where she practises electrolysis. So basically she is the only trained electrologist in Estonia as far as my research has showed and based on all possible elements of "checking" if she could be good, she seems very professional and also a very lovely person for that matter.

But all this means, that no, I have not had the chance to try different electrologists. I did my research and landed at her footstep!;) So I have no comparison to other machines or electrologists or pain levels...


Edited by kljutsh (07/13/16 08:46 PM)
_________________________
Hirsutism due to PCOS. Diagnosed in 2005. Professional depilation full body since 2006. Started electrolysis on face and neck area in June 2016. Electrolysis completed: 910 minutes.

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#122234 - 07/14/16 01:58 AM Re: Pain relief with injection - bad idea? [Re: kljutsh]
Patrick Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 07/31/02
Posts: 114
Loc: N. CA.
Hello Kljutsh,

First, I must say how impressed I am with the length of your treatments so far! The most I could do using compounded topical creams was about 60 minutes. After getting injections of Marcaine (Bupivicaine with Epinepherine), I was able to go for a bit more than 3 hours, but that was it! I was having treatments in my genital areas, however, not my face, so I can't really compare the two.

What is your dentist planning to use for the injection? Is it Marcaine? If so, I can certainly validate its effectiveness, at least in the pubic area. BTW, the 5 EUR cost for your injection is incredibly cheap, depending on what drug she uses. I just know that my Marcaine injections in California cost me $75US about 10 years ago!

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Patrick
_________________________
Patrick

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#122235 - 07/14/16 05:04 AM Re: Pain relief with injection - bad idea? [Re: kljutsh]
kljutsh Offline
Contributor

Registered: 04/08/16
Posts: 12
Loc: estonia/finland
Hi, Patrick

Thanks for sharing Your experience, good to know someone has indeed used injections successfully. I imagine genital area would be much more hurtful with skin so very sensitive and hormonal in that area? Likewise - can't imagine!;) Maybe in a year or two I'll get to work on those areas a bit as well and will imagine, haha;)

How often did You go to treatments and get injections? Did You go several times a week, or managed to have full clearance in the area and would only return after weeks? I'm very interested in learning more about potential safe margins for intervals. Of course, I will be talking with doctor about this in more detail, too. I've been thinking once a week two injections a day, depending on type of injection (ingredients, so said). And lots of food and water in between.

About injection itself - oh, total facepalm, I was so excited she agreed (as I expected a medical doctor to refuse, actually..they are very conservative about any beauty treatments in this country.. everything is to be cured by pills or medical doctors!) that I forgot to ask options! I'm due to call her back on Monday to ask what options there are, but decided to start research already. I'll write down Marcaine and ask about this.

The dentist herself admitted, she would think this would work but was also interested how it would work - I think this was one of the reasons she agreed to take me as her "patient" for this - to test, how this works, how deep should the injection be made, how long it would last etc.

I will definitely also be consulting with my usual dentist who also performs smaller scale surgeries and whom I've been seeing for 20 years and my general doctor. On a good note - hospital is in the same building, if anything should happen, hahaha. Ok, BAD joke!!! I wouldn't want to risk my life for hair.

About the price.. Yeah, VERY lucky! The European Union healthcare system is generally quite generous with simply needing to pay visitation fee (5-15 EUR depending on country) for any sort of specialist and no extra fees for later appointments, treatments, cure etc, but dentist works we do also have to pay for. The rates are way-way lower than in US though, both for public healthcare and private service. As the dentist I am planning to get the injections from works in same building and under the public healthcare system, the injections are slightly cheaper even for those with no insurance. There will be several injection options as some people are allergic to some ingredients etc, but the rate won't change from that..

At least some perk, cause any hirsutism treatments or electrolysis etc is not covered by healthcare system or even recommended by them, at all, unfortunately. I know in some European countries electrolysis, laser and other similar hair removal treatments can go under insurance even!

Anyway, hope You give more insight in the intervals. Would be interesting to map that down as well.

Thanks in advance!
H.
_________________________
Hirsutism due to PCOS. Diagnosed in 2005. Professional depilation full body since 2006. Started electrolysis on face and neck area in June 2016. Electrolysis completed: 910 minutes.

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#122238 - 07/14/16 02:22 PM Re: Pain relief with injection - bad idea? [Re: kljutsh]
Patrick Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 07/31/02
Posts: 114
Loc: N. CA.
Hi again, H.

I was pretty lazy about getting regular treatments so the total duration was pretty long, at least a couple of years. I would only go for 60 minute treatments about every week or two, so I rarely got complete clearance in any one area during a single session. The only time I did get clearance in an area was when I got injections just prior to the session and could last up to 3 hours which was enough time for the electrologist to noticeably clear an area. But I only did that twice during the 2 years. I would have done it every time but the $75 charge on top of 3 hours of electrolysis at $50 per hour was generally more than I could afford at the time.

As for the injections themselves, the doctor used a very fine needle and numbed the entire genital area using 20-25 shallow injections, just beneath the skin. It wasn't really very painful at all, less than the pain of an electrolysis "poke" for sure! But note that the numbing effect takes place immediately so you want to get to your electrolysis appointment immediately after your numbing injections. You don't want to waste any precious "numbing" time! But as for how soon you can have another injection, I would definitely consult with your doctor/dentist about that. My sessions were so far apart that it wasn't a factor.

If they need to be spaced further apart, as I suspect, you might want to try a custom, compounded cream in between injections that I found to be a lot more effective than EMLA. I had a pharmacy create a cream for me consisting of Benzocaine 20%, tetracaine 4% and bupivacaine 2%. It was much more effective than commercially available creams and with your low drug costs, should be quite the bargain. A 30g tube cost me over $60 ten years ago!

Good luck!
_________________________
Patrick

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#122239 - 07/14/16 03:26 PM Re: Pain relief with injection - bad idea? [Re: kljutsh]
Katarina Kerner Offline
Member

Registered: 04/09/16
Posts: 7
Loc: Croatia
Hi Kljutsh,

neck is a really sensitive area, I've had clients with high pain tolerance overall but they would also caved when doing a treatment on that area, so you are definitely not a "pain-pussy".

I recommend checking out few videos from a channel called Hairbusted, in this particular one an electrologist shows you how to make a numbing cream Pain Killers IN DEPTH PART 1
I'm sure that you'll find the right combination, either cream or injection, to numb the area and be able to go through your treatments smile

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