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#124394 - 07/26/17 11:19 PM Re: hairs break off during treatment [Re: fenix]
Iluv2zap Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 11/19/14
Posts: 1061
80 units of lye is sufficient for most course hairs, I can see going 100 on some really large or stubborn hairs but 200 sounds like a lot, and I would think most of it would exit the follicle as froth.
_________________________
Seana Richmond
Certified Electrologist.
Electrolysis By Seana
http://electrolysisbyseana.com

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#124398 - 07/27/17 05:11 PM Re: hairs break off during treatment [Re: fenix]
dimi Offline
Contributor

Registered: 02/14/17
Posts: 48
Loc: Montreal, Canada
Fenix,
1. 200 UL is over-treatment for me.
2. Use probe with size which match the size of the treated hair.
3. Proposed procedure:
- Reduce the settings to 80 UL.
- Chose the probe with the same size of the hair size.
- Treat 3-4 hairs. If you treat more you can get lost.
- Go back to the first treated hair and insert the probe into the follicle.
- In this position try to remove the hair. A) If the hair slides out easily just remove the hair and zap the naked follicle again for 1-2 sec and go to the fifth hair. B) If you feel some resistance you still remove the hair but make after count for 3-4-5 sec. C) If the hair stay firmly in place assess your insertion and treat again. In this case you can expect overtreatment so remove the hair after treatment anyway.
It will be more difficult and take more time but the goal is to kill the hair. You are DIY so the time is not so critical.

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#124400 - 07/27/17 07:09 PM Re: hairs break off during treatment [Re: fenix]
fenix Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 03/17/12
Posts: 451
I used to do 80 UL with 60-70 second counts with lower DC settings. Even as DIY, it takes a toll on you as it's labor intensive to sit in a pretzel position. I increased the DC to 1 mA and reduced time to 20 seconds to speed up the lye build up and time it took to clear an area.
I was not concerned about the high DC because I have not been noticing any skin tissue damage or bad healing process.

I will attempt to reduce time and see if I'll still get releases. If releases won't be good, I'll experiment with reducing DC maybe to 5 tenths mA. All this time I have been working with an F3 needle only because insertions are easier.
But perhaps I misread the literature but I thought probe size does not affect DC production but probe size does affect AC pattern.

Thanks for all advice.


Edited by fenix (07/27/17 07:12 PM)

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#124402 - 07/27/17 11:41 PM Re: hairs break off during treatment [Re: fenix]
Iluv2zap Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 11/19/14
Posts: 1061
what your looking for is the working point as described in well, just about every electrolysis textbook.
I would maybe look for the medium point between your two intensities and time frames. Reduce your Dc to at least 0.7 MA and adjust your time up accordingly.


Edited by Iluv2zap (07/27/17 11:45 PM)
_________________________
Seana Richmond
Certified Electrologist.
Electrolysis By Seana
http://electrolysisbyseana.com

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#124417 - 07/31/17 03:17 PM Re: hairs break off during treatment [Re: fenix]
dimi Offline
Contributor

Registered: 02/14/17
Posts: 48
Loc: Montreal, Canada
The size of the probe DOES matter.
Assuming the same settings:
-Small size probe-less surface-less lye created.
-Bigger size probe-more surface-more lye created.
If you use smaller size probe than the size of the hair, you are treating only one side of the follicle. The lye is concentrated only around the probe. Because is not used AC, the lye is not heated and the tissue is not coagulated. In this case the lye cannot travel fast and stay around the probe. Additionally if the lye stay around the probe the water is depleted which cause decreasing of lye production.
The results of that are:
-Bottom part of the follicle is treated partially
-The top side of the follicle has smaller diameter and it is possible to be over treated (200UL) and the lye partially to dissolve the hair and make it week and break when extracted.
-No overtreatment is observe because not enough lye is produced.
If you use smaller size probe you should use more advance technique such as multiple insertion:
-Use the same setting (80UL)
-Insert the probe into the follicle at 12 a clock and zap it with 40UL (halve time needed for full treatment)
-Remove and insert the probe into the follicle at 6 a clock and zap it with another 40UL.
You can make 3 insertions at 12, 4 and 8 a clock and calculate the time accordingly.

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#124418 - 07/31/17 07:05 PM Re: hairs break off during treatment [Re: fenix]
fenix Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 03/17/12
Posts: 451
I will work with larger probes as I have up to F5 and I will reduce the DC to below 1mA. Again thanks for this info. Even though I have the text books and read them, it's always helpful to have guides assisting with tips.

I just want to make sure that I am not crazy or having reading comprehension problems when I understood from texts that probe size does not affect overall amount of Lye production in DC. 80UL in probe size 3 produces the same amount of lye as a size 6 using same settings? The larger probe only distributes it in a wider pattern?
I'm referring to link below ( and other texts. )

http://www.balletneedles.com/knowledge-base/knowledge-base-article-1/

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#124429 - 08/02/17 02:18 PM Re: hairs break off during treatment [Re: fenix]
dimi Offline
Contributor

Registered: 02/14/17
Posts: 48
Loc: Montreal, Canada
Fenix, you are not crazy, do not worry.
Theoretically the probe size does not affect overall amount of Lye production in DC.
Theoretically means that we have 2 electrodes and uniform salt water between them.
However, in the follicle I am not sure that this theoretical model fully applies.
Please note, that this is my opinion and I do not pretend to be right.
Anyway, still choosing the proper size of the probe is very important:
“The key factor, and the one I want you to always consider, is the following: always be sure to use the correct diameter needle. This one factor alone is the main determinant in a proper treatment. Fit the needle diameter to the thickness of the hair! Don’t use a needle that is too thin. If you will do this, your treatment will be superb- and, it really doesn’t matter so much what type of needle you use (tapered, non-tapered, gold or stainless)” (Treatment Strategy for Electrology-Michael Bono, page 21)

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