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#125391 - 12/10/17 09:11 PM Re: Advice for customers. [Re: Roselake21]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3490
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
Indeed Seana ... yes.

What sometimes happens is that a client will have negative results ... switch to another zapper and get great results... and then "a true believer" is born.

There are all sorts of very valid electrology strategies. In following one's particular strategy, however, some game-plan should be followed and explained to the client. Usually that is the case ... mostly.

Still, even the best plans can go astray. One of my favorite electrologists started with a guy and removed areas that were easy (less painful) ... then, moving into the nasty areas became an impossibility. The pattern remaining was goofy.

There are ways to execute all sorts of strategies and I understand the rationale and sometimes follow completely different strategies myself.

Bottom line: there is no "one way only."

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#125393 - 12/11/17 04:06 AM Re: Advice for customers. [Re: Roselake21]
Roselake21 Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 03/02/17
Posts: 52
I would like to add something: to be clear: I'm not against other strategies at all. If the hair is killed the first time. Clear and wait streategy or maintain and advance is not a concern. This is the choice of the practionner... and the customer.

As long as you don't treat the same hair more than one I do think every strategy work. In my opinion, I prefer being treated by a professional who DOES kill hair the first time with the " maintain and advance stategy" rather than going to someone who use the "clear and wait strategy" but who have a very low kill rate and will create "true regrowth."


I would like to share with others, a google function that I found very interesting when it comes to websites who don't have a good search function or a FAQ.
Everytime I want to search for a questions or a term on hairtell I do the following action.
I go to google and let say o want to be informed of discussion about instant regrowth. I type this "instant regrowth site:hairtell.com" when you add site: and the name of the website before the terms you are looking for, google will focus on this particular website and give you only resuslts that are presents on it. this tool is very helpful and play the role of a search engine that miss to hairtell.com

When a read reactions of professional that are something's tired of the questions that are the sales all the time( I get myslfel tired too.) maybe it is good to know that this tool exist. I hope I will save the time and the energy of everyone. But if you really want to ask your question, go ahea. I'm the advocate of free speech!



Edited by Roselake21 (12/11/17 04:34 AM)

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#125397 - 12/11/17 11:36 AM Re: Advice for customers. [Re: Roselake21]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3490
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
On "going to a school of electrology" ...

Like a mantra, "overtreatment" is stressed from day one. It's all about the school being potentially sued by customers that are getting student work. For this reason, students are guided into UNDER-treating hairs.

Indeed, the FEAR of damaging the skin becomes ingrained and often lasts a lifetime. Think FEAR of the currents. In every patient that finally sees me, the former electrologist said, "We have to SAVE THE SKIN!" With bad work, I can guarantee that that is exactly what the former operator repeated over-and-over.

Along with the "overtreatment mantra," the devised theory, "breaking-down process" is ubiquitous in the profession. This is the belief that all hairs require several treatments to "break them down" ... the hairs become smaller and thus easier to kill. How many times? Yes, I have heard that "it takes about SEVEN times to kill a hair."

If these bogus beliefs are institutionalized in our schools ... what can we expect from many of our "dear colleagues?" I will say, that if I owned a school, I too would be fearful of overtreatments and lawsuits. And, there's the "rub!"

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#125400 - 12/11/17 11:25 PM Re: Advice for customers. [Re: Roselake21]
KLR71 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/23/17
Posts: 9
I've been registered for awhile here to learn about DIY but thought I'd chime in with my own experiences selecting an operator. I'm trans and wanted my sparse facial hair gone, the electrologist I've been working with is actually the only one I've bothered with, for various reasons: She's the closest to me, is licensed in Oregon as all operators have to be, is really knowledgable about the accreditation here and keeps up to date on developments, ensures her equipment is up-to-date (which I didn't believe at first, Fischer need to move out of the 1960s design-wise!), could answer any question I posed her about stages of hair, regrowth, treatment regimens, probing, sterlization, you name it; we get along great, she keeps up a steady stream of chat which is perfect for putting me at ease, has prices fully comparable to other operators where I live, and so far I see little to no regrowth.

Now, I don't have tons of money to spend on electro so only two hours a month for me, for a total of 12 so far. My upper lip is bare now after just four sessions. One straggler is poking through at the moment. The first patch she cleared on my intake appointment remained sparse than the rest of my upper lip for months. She operates just as fast as most blend operators on YT, excepting Michael, I'm going to have to ask her if she can't crank up the voltage somewhat. Although I'm at a pain level that's almost at what is tolerable anyway, with just 4% Lidocaine. I assume the fellow in this video is on something not OTC? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib3l55S6skU

I thought about documenting things via photography but decided I could keep tabs on the results on my own, as I said I don't have much hair to deal with anyway. So I evaluated her work in every other way. You could certainly take a snap when you get home from a session if you want to chart progress.

In the TG world what Micheal calls the "3-clearance strategy" is just referred to as "marathon clearances" or the like, I'm guessing, as provided by people like Electro3K in Dallas. Is 3-clearance long sessions with anathestics? 40 to 90 hours to kill a beard would entail 15 hours in a month minimum (let's use 45), that's 4.25 hours a week. Given peoples' need to live lives I'm guessing you're getting that all out of the way at once. Your website doesn't have anything to say about pain on the treatment section.

As I mentioned I want to DIY my lower body. My operator is dead set against this but I loath hair, and need the money for other things, and don't mind working on my own, etc. Problem is finding one of those great deals at the right time. 2 months ago a CB2 and CB-X went by on eBay, for the princely final bid prices of $150 and $250, but I had to spend everything I had on property taxes...grr...

Thank you all for the mountains of info on this site!


Edited by KLR71 (12/11/17 11:35 PM)
_________________________
Lucy Ross, transwoman

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#125401 - 12/12/17 01:14 AM Re: Advice for customers. [Re: Roselake21]
fenix Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 03/17/12
Posts: 523
If you can search on here, Michael never endorses or does 3 clearance method on faces as that carries risk of scarring. The 3 clearance is only used on body through what he calls "body-technic" in his books. The currents are not from standard blend charts.

If your electrologist cleared your upper lip in 4 sessions, you can't get any better than that!

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#125404 - 12/12/17 10:48 AM Re: Advice for customers. [Re: Roselake21]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3490
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
Actually, no ... my current levels used in standard "Body Technic" are used universally by blend operators and are not "off the charts."

Specifically, on my Hinkel machine, the prescription is to set the HF at "3" and I set the dial at "3." The DC is set at 1.5mA and I set the DC (lower) at 1.0mA. Nothing special.

These techniques and levels were used all the time by students at Hinkel's school and are not anything new or different. (I can't take "credit" for NUTTIN'!"

What is "different" is that machine makers and schools natively unfamiliar with the blend made many assumptions and sort of got stuck with a very complicated version (a literal understanding) of the modality.


Edited by Michael Bono (12/12/17 10:49 AM)

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#125408 - 12/13/17 05:32 AM Re: Advice for customers. [Re: Roselake21]
Roselake21 Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 03/02/17
Posts: 52
Thank you very much for your explanations Michael. We learn a lot by reading your posts. I didn't know the reason why they teach to not apply the proper amount of current in school. Now that make sens.

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#125410 - 12/14/17 02:22 AM Re: Advice for customers. [Re: Roselake21]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3490
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
And, thanks to you too.

I'll eventually produce something of substance about this, but when Hinkel and St. Pierre worked with two currents (blend), the electrologists in their employment had no meters of any kind. Meters were added to the machine only to document what the electrologists were doing ...

The practitioners discovered how the currents interacted with each other, and the entire "units of lye" chart was ONLY an explanation of what they were already doing.

The easiest way to visualize this is to consider any language. Indeed, the language develops organically ... on it's own with native speakers ... and then a grammar is developed to explain how people are using the language. Grammar only helps to learn the language and, once you are proficient, you no longer ... or ever ... think about grammar rules.

With even the first "Hinkel unit computer" machines (that Hinkel himself opposed), the emphasis was shifted to the grammar (the "units") and the application of the blend sort of took-on it's own restrictions.

Bottom line is that I NEVER compute "units of lye" because I know the "language." Imaging how strange it would be if you ... as a native speaker ... had to do a sentence diagram each time you spoke. And, that's the fallacy of explicitly following the grammar of the "units of lye" chart.

I don't know if this makes any sense ... I'm working on a couple ideas on this subject. BIG MESS until the middle of January ... so, time will tell.

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#125482 - 12/20/17 09:41 PM Re: Advice for customers. [Re: Roselake21]
KLR71 Offline
Member

Registered: 05/23/17
Posts: 9
Thanks for responding, Michael, and sorry to be a bit slow getting back to you. Are the concepts you're describing covered in detail in your book? Yesterday I did as much cramming as I could trying to learn more basics about this. Do I understand correctly that you work wholly without timers and presets? I caught a passing reference to that in a thread. It'd be curious if that is the case, when practically the whole industry seems to rely on them.

Do your sessions to clear thick areas (beard etc) run long (multi-hour) and involve the use of pain relievers? I'm very impressed by the speed you work at in the videos on your YouTube channel. My operator is pretty quick, far as I can tell, but not that fast. She's an ex-chemist and tells me she's a bit of an anomaly among her colleagues around here in really understanding the workings of electrology, too, which is a shame. The others just memorized what they needed to receive their accreditation. This is another reason I go to her as I'm a lay scientist.
_________________________
Lucy Ross, transwoman

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