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#125438 - 12/16/17 06:08 PM Re: Before & After electrolysis photos! [Re: Michael Bono]
Josefa M. Reina Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 05/15/17
Posts: 73
Yes, I know that this photo is going to unleash a feather storm and a lot of criticism from some of our colleagues. I counted on it.

20 years ago, the fear of criticism would have prevented me from uploading this photo. Nowadays the opinion of those experts, who are not causing scabs, I do not give a damn. I have promised myself to ignore any criticism that comes from someone who is not able to provide a single evidence of the results of his/her work.
I also want to see photos, before, during and after, of the treatments carried out by those electrologists who remove hair permanently without causing any kind of reaction.

I do not know if we will be able to convince someone of what is normal and expected, Mike, but at least, we are trying to normalize a side effect that inevitably occurs in body work.

If in this profession there had been more transparency and less misinformation, consumers in general would be less concerned about any insignificant cutaneous manifestation.

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#125439 - 12/16/17 06:49 PM Re: Before & After electrolysis photos! [Re: SecretSid]
Iluv2zap Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 11/19/14
Posts: 1456
sorry Josepha you wont get any criticism out of me for documenting treatment and healing.

I would say though that your photos dont tell the whole story ( in this one instance)

We have the before , the after, but nothing in the middle. It's the manifestations that we are not seeing here ( scabbing, angiogenesis, hyperpigmentation ) that compose the largest number of concerns for people.
_________________________
Seana Richmond
Certified Electrologist.
Electrolysis By Seana
http://electrolysisbyseana.com

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#125440 - 12/16/17 07:13 PM Re: Before & After electrolysis photos! [Re: Iluv2zap]
Josefa M. Reina Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 05/15/17
Posts: 73
Hi Seana, I think you've overlooked the last picture of legs. There are thousands of scabs, one for each treated follicle. This shows scabbing, I'll look for one that talks about hyperpigmentation.

Keep in mind that I can only take pictures when the client comes to me, that is, after several months of treatment. What happens in the middle is beyond the reach of my camera.

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#125441 - 12/17/17 01:54 AM Re: Before & After electrolysis photos! [Re: SecretSid]
dfahey Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 9689
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
I would personally welcome any of my clients to post pictures of their skin condition 48 hours after their session because that is when scabbing can show. Also, I strongly encourage anyone that I have treated and FINISHED years ago to post their before, middle and after results. If they can't do that, then describe for the folks here what the outcome was.

All I can truthfully say is some people scab on the face and some people don't. For the body, most people scab. All scabbing is short-lived and heals nicely. Same goes for angiogenesis and hyperpigmentation.

As for the uselessness of pictures taken right after a treatment, the purpose is not to show an end result, it is to educate others as to what the skin looks like immediately after a clearance so the consumer or neophyte electrologist can get a realistic understanding of what the skin will look like after hours of working to clear a face, a hairline, nipple area, legs, back, etc.

Someone noted above that taking pictures immediately following a treatment were useless, so I thought I would explain the purpose of taking pictures immediately after a clearance - something I frequently do, especially on the closed facebook sites, which I assume others new to electrolysis or to our profession, would find interesting, reassuring and helpful.
_________________________
Dee Fahey, R.N., C.T.
Licensed by the State Medical Board of Ohio for Nursing license and Cosmetic Therapy/Electrolysis license
_____________________
ELECTROLYSIS FAQ'S:

British Institute & Association of Electrolysis

http://www.electrolysis.co.uk/?page_id=16

Do not give up, the beginning is always the hardest.

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#125454 - 12/17/17 06:56 PM Re: Before & After electrolysis photos! [Re: SecretSid]
Stephgold Offline
Contributor

Registered: 09/12/17
Posts: 40
Loc: New Mexico
Great pics! Does anyone have pics of faces before and after? Most women like me would like to see faces.

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#125459 - 12/18/17 07:14 AM Re: Before & After electrolysis photos! [Re: SecretSid]
Roselake21 Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 03/02/17
Posts: 51
Of course we see the scabs in the picture. The pictures tells the whole story. This is a story about permanent hair removal. Nothing else nothing more. Thank you Josefa!

Welcoming clients who are maybe not visiting hairtell to post pictures of their treatments is a good start. But as I said before, a professional like Josefa obtain the rights to post pictures of her customers while many other electrologist are writing ABOUT posting pictures. This is a big difference.


I think I wrote enough posts to the electrologist to understand that we now want to see photos and we are not anymore "ok" to read and understand the multiples reasons why you can't provide good quality photos.


I said that when you ONLY have post reaction pictures it is useless for customers of course.

We are going to post many photos of what the skin looks like just after the treatment. So people will understand, once for and for all "what a skin reaction looks like."

I want to ask a questions to the customers. What do you prefer when choosing an electrologist ? proof of his/her work ? The guarrantee that more than 99% of the hairs are killed after being treated ? Real customers who are now hair free ? (A very good electrologist won't hesitates to ask a former clients if he/she wants to show their results to the new client.)

Or do you prefer an electrologist who use WORDS most of the time but doesn't go straight to the points ( proof of his/her ability to remove hair permanently) ?

Think about that twice. You don't have to believe, you have to see photos, you have to do a patch test you have to figure out if it is worth you money and at the end of it, you start your treatment or you try another professional.


I prefer being upfront and saying what customers need and say the true about electrolysis permanent hair removal




Edited by Roselake21 (12/18/17 07:25 AM)

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#125460 - 12/18/17 11:35 AM Re: Before & After electrolysis photos! [Re: SecretSid]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3450
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
Roselake, I hate being lectured to ... especially from someone who (unlike me) has not spent 40-years in this profession. Your postings are starting to sound like a harangue. Good ideas, mind you ... but consider that for every activity, there has to be a PAYOFF! Bottom line: the majority of electrologists are not going to take the time to organize and post photos because doing so is counter-productive! Bottom line: photos "convince" no clients, and predictably "piss off" other professionals.

You probably think that hundreds of therapists and clients read Hairtell ... not so, it's a scant hand-full. There is no "audience."

Photos never convince neurotic clients. You can show them, and even write to them "in blood," but if they insist something went wrong ... it's no use; you just have to wait it out.

Photos do not convince prospective clients. They assume the photos are fake, or doctored in Photoshop.

Specific photos that illustrate technique, modality and (especially) TTT, infuriate other electrologists. They assume you are "grand-standing" and trying to be "better than they are."

If clients themselves want to post photos, that would be fine. However, for myself, I'm tired of hitting myself over the head. (And, I know Josefa is too.) I have thrown away hundreds of photos and will only rarely post photos (or use them in an educational video).

I wonder, how many dentists or plastic surgeons post the types of photos you want to see? (The surgeon I work with doesn't even have a website.) Sure, maybe a scant few, but they have also learned that our practices are based on ONE patient at a time ... a real person.

In this age of "fake news" and "Photoshopped" images, what you are demanding to happen is not going to happen. While I agree with your sentiments, I think it's time to stop preaching.




Edited by Michael Bono (12/18/17 11:37 AM)

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#125461 - 12/18/17 12:33 PM Re: Before & After electrolysis photos! [Re: SecretSid]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3450
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
Let me add that nearly all on-line photos and writings go into a sort-of "Black Hole." Data goes in and nothing is ever seen, or heard of, again. Sucked-up and GONE! Poof!

Since 1991, I have sold more than 6,000 books. My ideas about "anagen only" and "papilla as target" are there. Add to this Art Hinkel's 1968 book that is the mainstay of the industry ... with the same information. And yet, the electrology myths are perpetrated with unabated "pedagogical certitude."

Before & After photos are instantly relegated to the "Black Hole" (especially on Hairtell) ... and 10-minute videos (that can take 50-hours to produce) have little to no effect on anybody. Still, Josefa and I (add in Dee and Seana), will drudge on with this endeavor, because it's what we do. Four idiots!

However, I have learned in my 40-years, not to expect "continental shifts" in attitudes from a few plaintive posts on Hairtell. And, I don't!

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#125462 - 12/18/17 01:10 PM Re: Before & After electrolysis photos! [Re: SecretSid]
Roselake21 Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 03/02/17
Posts: 51
"A PAYOFF" for what activity ? Michael, I m maybe upfront but you are one of the electrologist who showed pictures of your work. This is very good. You are not lectured. My posts are addressed to everybody, not you. Sorry if I sounded like if I wanted to learn you electrolysis. It is obviously not the case at all.

This is not my opinion, photos help a lot and there is few people who think about photoshop when it comes to an experienced electrologist who presents pictures.

All the tread that has been created on hairtell are online and you can see them if you use google for an exemple. Google image helps a lot.

I have no interest in saying what i say apart informing new customers.

Electrologist who don't post pictures are maybe as great as the one who post pictures but we don't know.

I wanted to explain what I think would be good in term of explanations for customers in a good way but you are maybe true. People don't listen, don't make research on older posts.... at least I tried to explain my point of view and maybe it will help somepeople.






Edited by Roselake21 (12/18/17 01:21 PM)

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#125466 - 12/18/17 02:37 PM Re: Before & After electrolysis photos! [Re: SecretSid]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3450
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
... and, I agree with you!

However, there is a reality that most electrologists understand. For those willing to show their work there is virtually no benefit ... NO PAYOFF ... to themselves or to clients.

If you produce something, the electrologist has to get some benefit. Electrologists have discovered (for the most part) that attempts to showcase their work can be destructive to them, i.e., lots of criticism from the profession. (Notice in Josefa's post she understood the "shit was coming.")

But ... sure ... I agree with your premise. I just know the reality of this hair removal industry. Your post will change nothing: I'm telling you how it is; not how it should be.

And sure "screw it!" I plan to continue showing electrolysis work with all the things lived learned over the decades. It's what I do.

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