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#125512 - 12/22/17 10:38 AM Re: My Electrolysis Diary. Laser stimulated hair. [Re: Krasnaja]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3507
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
If you can find it, there is a well-done documentary on our favorite dinosaur: the triceratops.

Paleontologists conclude that the trademark horns changed shape as the "tri" aged and reached sexual maturity. It had been thought that there were several different species ... but now (after finding lots of youngsters and adolescent dinos) the fossils show that the size and direction of the horns changed ... and signaled sexual maturity to others in the species.

Triceratops babies had tiny horns atop their head. "Teenagers" had horns pointing backward. In adults, the horns changed direction and pointed forward. Researchers show that the horns were probably not used in battle (against meat-eaters), but mostly a sexual display ... and probably used in breeding-season "fencing;" much like antlers on a moose.

Triceratops' had horns ... we have hair. Don't think so? What signals do black hair vs. grey hair send? The triceratops would not allow photos of their horns!

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#125514 - 12/22/17 12:17 PM Re: My Electrolysis Diary. Laser stimulated hair. [Re: Michael Bono]
Krasnaja Offline
Contributor

Registered: 04/11/17
Posts: 15
Originally Posted By Michael Bono
If you can find it, there is a well-done documentary on our favorite dinosaur: the triceratops.

Paleontologists conclude that the trademark horns changed shape as the "tri" aged and reached sexual maturity. It had been thought that there were several different species ... but now (after finding lots of youngsters and adolescent dinos) the fossils show that the size and direction of the horns changed ... and signaled sexual maturity to others in the species.

Triceratops babies had tiny horns atop their head. "Teenagers" had horns pointing backward. In adults, the horns changed direction and pointed forward. Researchers show that the horns were probably not used in battle (against meat-eaters), but mostly a sexual display ... and probably used in breeding-season "fencing;" much like antlers on a moose.

Triceratops' had horns ... we have hair. Don't think so? What signals do black hair vs. grey hair send? The triceratops would not allow photos of their horns!


Hello, Michael!
Thank You to look at my topic.
I wanted to ask, if I can: I am sure, You had so many patients with laser stimulated hair on the face. How long, regarding Your expirience, does it take to finish one of this cases?
I know that it should take aprox. 18 months, but why some trying to solve this problem 4 years?...
Sorry for stupid question smile

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#125525 - 12/24/17 06:00 AM Re: My Electrolysis Diary. Laser stimulated hair. [Re: Krasnaja]
adrien_sanchiz Offline

Top 20 Contributor

Registered: 08/02/13
Posts: 321
Loc: France, Spain
This is not a stupid question.
For body work, the treatment can take less than 1 year. It could be more time for female face because of the big amount of immature follicules (thus invisible the first day you began the treatment) which will develop into visible hair with time.
Working on removing vellus hair (fine, low-pigmented, quite short) is the way to prevent the growth of new terminal hair.

Why some consumers get 4 years treatment? It depends on the protocole. Let’s think we need around 80 hours for Total Time Treatment (TTT) in your case. (It is an example). You can decide to do these 80 hours during 9-18 months. However, for some reasons you can also do 20 hours of electrolysis each year and the treatment will take 4 years in this case.
(This example works only in the case of electrolysis properly done)

I hope you got some answer to your question


Edited by adrien_sanchiz (12/24/17 06:06 AM)
_________________________
Licensed electrologist and esthetician.
http://adrien-sanchiz-electrolysis.blogspot.fr/

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#125526 - 12/24/17 10:52 AM Re: My Electrolysis Diary. Laser stimulated hair. [Re: Krasnaja]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3507
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
A little while back, a colleague said that "Josefa picks and chooses her clients." She does not! ... I DO!

Now that I'm an old dude, I only want to hit "home runs" all the time. Nicely, we have a brilliant electrologist in town that takes the more difficult cases.

Presently, I only work on body hair that is fully established. And, sorry to say, I will (usually) not take a person who has had laser treatments (lots of them with poor results ... especially hair stimulation!).

Point being: when I give an estimate, I want it to be accurate. With many female faces (depending on their age and past treatments, i.e., laser) you never quite know how the treatments will go. I have had decades of "complaints and tears" and now I just want to sit back on my big fat ever-expanding "behind" and hit home-runs every time. And, I do!

And, that's the beauty of it ... we CAN take on the clients we want.

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#125527 - 12/25/17 06:35 PM Re: My Electrolysis Diary. Laser stimulated hair. [Re: Krasnaja]
C O'Connell Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 740
Loc: Sydney,Australia
Laser stimulated cases are my most disliked cases for the reasons you talk about Michael. Its wonderful to be able to predict the course of treatment with great accuracy but with a laser stimulated case its impossible to predict anything. I have a longstanding post LHR client that I still see for 45 minutes bimonthly and I have been treating her for 7 years. And in this case its the non hormonal areas that are still persisting, upper arms and lower legs. A very unusual case. Initially I was only treating her face but by now I have been treating her lower legs (leftover hairs) for at least three years, perhaps four.
_________________________
Christine O' Connell, D.R.E., F.I.E. ,M.B.I.A.E. (UK)
http://www.clinicalelectrolysis.com.au

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#125534 - 12/26/17 04:44 PM Re: My Electrolysis Diary. Laser stimulated hair. [Re: Krasnaja]
Deedra Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 08/02/18
Posts: 9725
Loc: United States
Ditto on everything above, Christine. I spend a lot of my time explaining to my laser clients that there may be no typical predictable outcome. I was totally perplexed a couple years back when this woman was coming to me for a few very coarse hairs here and there on her underarms and bikini and it just kept coming over four + years. The laser actually did a great job, but there was definitely a problem with a few hairs (and they were very coarse) showing up on a regular basis. It's like hundreds of hairs were cast to sleep by laser and woke up slowly over the next several years, one by one. The client thinks they are "coming back". Of course, this makes me look bad and the client thinks I'm giving them some sleek BS when I try to explain that these hairs have never been treated with electrolysis before because of their size. If I had treated them, and they slid out of the follicle with no resistance, they would have been gone. If there were a few hair stem cells left behind, the hair may have returned, but it would have returned as a finer hair. The electrologist gets the brunt of ill-feelings from laser clients who feel betrayed.

I'm almost at the point where I'm not going to take laser hair stimulation facial cases. I may devise a form for them to sign, before they start treatment, so they know what we can be up against as electrologists try to correct problems left behind.
_________________________
Dee Fahey RN CT LLC

Licensed by the State Medical Board of Ohio for Cosmetic Therapy/Electrolysis and the State Nursing Board of Ohio

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#125535 - 12/26/17 07:21 PM Re: My Electrolysis Diary. Laser stimulated hair. [Re: Krasnaja]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3507
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
Yes, Dee Dee ...

Of course the experts believe that the laser does it's work by heat ... thermal injury. We know what such an injury is, because electrologists do it all the time to follicles.

However, stimulating hair growth? Delaying hair growth for years? Altering the shedding cycle? None of these effects are from thermal damage only. If thermal damage (only) is causing these effects, I have yet to hear an idea about WHY this is happening.

Something is happening at the cellular level that is not yet understood. All of these oddities will be described in the future when more evidence is gathered. Laser is a massive experiment and let's hope there are no deadly side-effects. Such effects take many years to ascertain.

Meanwhile, the guinea pigs keep showing up; God bless 'em!

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#125536 - 12/26/17 10:24 PM Re: My Electrolysis Diary. Laser stimulated hair. [Re: Krasnaja]
Deedra Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 08/02/18
Posts: 9725
Loc: United States
After a while, I said to myself, "What the hell is going on here!!?". I know how to disable hair follicles. I was double punching her very coarse hair follicles. They slide completely, with for glistening bulbs - no traction - text book perfect. A month later, she's back for a few more very coarse hairs and it went on like this for years. She finally said she had gone back to school and wouldn't be seeing me for awhile. I think she was finding a nice way to give up.

If we could mark hairs somehow, well, that would be wonderful, but we can't. I'm sure that all of the hairs I treated were new growth because I was seeing her once a month and getting her cleared.. It was very weird. I would expect this for facial cases, but not for body work. very strange and I don't know how this can be studied to prove what I have observed to be happening.
_________________________
Dee Fahey RN CT LLC

Licensed by the State Medical Board of Ohio for Cosmetic Therapy/Electrolysis and the State Nursing Board of Ohio

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#125537 - 12/26/17 11:32 PM Re: My Electrolysis Diary. Laser stimulated hair. [Re: Krasnaja]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3507
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
I've experienced this too Dee ...

In spite of all the data and research, there is still a lot unknown about the cells in the skin. Just in my career's lifetime, we started talking about stem cells.

We all get so comfortable with such natural wonders as light, electricity, magnetism, gravity. We think we know these ... but there is still a mystery behind them all. And, biology is even more complex.

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#125538 - 12/27/17 04:18 AM Re: My Electrolysis Diary. Laser stimulated hair. [Re: Krasnaja]
Stephgold Offline
Contributor

Registered: 09/12/17
Posts: 40
Loc: New Mexico
@dee I understand now what it means to have regrowth.


Edited by Stephgold (12/27/17 04:18 AM)

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