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#125653 - 01/16/18 04:06 PM Advice: Should I switch to someone who uses blend?
endlesshello Offline
Contributor

Registered: 01/16/18
Posts: 11
A little background: I am pale with sensitive, clog prone and acne prone on my chin (mainly due to the hair). I had laser hair removal on my chin years ago which only caused more hair. For years I have been tweezing. I tried electrolysis years ago and gave up because it didn't work and gave me icepick scars. Most of the hair is coming in white and is very thick, course and deeply rooted.

I have recently begun electrolysis. She is using thermolysis and I have had 4 or 5 sessions. During the session occasionally I hear the popping sound (crackle). I noticed like the last time I got electroysis she really has to tug on some of the hairs to get them out.

Afterwards I am a little swollen but otherwise ok. After several hours I get pimples that are worse than any breakout ever. They are more like pustules or cysts. I have done my best to heal the skin between sessions not wearing makeup and occasionally even applying Calamine lotion. Is this normal. I expressed to the operator who has 20 or more years experience and is a nurse that I was concerned that after several months I would be experiencing no permanent removal. She assured me that she can do it and that it is normal and some of the hairs and follicles are curved (I am prone to this and ingrown hairs).

Should I keep going or switch to someone who uses blend or galvanic? I have been keeping a low profile since my skin is a mess, but I have a 7 year old and can't be a hermit while I go through this. Depressing!

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#125654 - 01/16/18 06:12 PM Re: Advice: Should I switch to someone who uses blend? [Re: endlesshello]
Iluv2zap Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 11/19/14
Posts: 1223
Gosh, where to start with this one. Well, I guess by shooting down some of the obvious misconceptions on your part. This is normal to be mislead by some concepts that havent been communicated to you or understood by you.No one starts with all the information, and trying to learn while dealing with your brains anxiety over things like "skin damage" and effectiveness can cause a lot of stress, and that in turn causes you to misconstrue what you are seeing. So all this to say, dont take what I'm about to say personally, it's meant to help you.

I'll start with this gem:

"I tried electrolysis years ago and gave up because it didn't work and gave me icepick scars." combined with this:
" I am pale with sensitive, clog prone and acne prone on my chin (mainly due to the hair)."


No, it didnt. Here's a mild example of ice pick scarring I found on google:
https://www.lipstickalley.com/proxy.php?image=http%3A%2F%2Fei.realself.com%2Ffull%2Fb05cd4e2f7e31f6107e0258d734a17cc%2F546111-
544570.jpg&hash=e53550794a25d2630efc26cd6e1a338e

and here another:
https://static.acne.org/ipb_uploads/mont...b01949be37f.jpg

Ice pick scars Google Ice pick scars and go to images . What you see are lots of images of scars and pock marks that look like someone stuck an ice pick into the skin. It's very logical then to imaging that an electrolysis probe inserted into a hair and burned the surrounding tissue would cause this kind of mark. In the brain, this seems to make sense. Except for that that little pesky thing, the difference between theory and fact.What is the thing I can almost hear Michael Bono saying.

Ice pick scars develop because the pore of the follicle is held open over a large amount of time, long enough that the skin begins to lose its elasticity and is unable to return to it's normal size. Electrolysis probes are fine,about the size of the hair, and cannot stretch out the follicle in this manner. They also are in the follicle for a very short period, not long enough to stretch out the follicle in this way. The reaction to a burn from thermolysis or lye does not cause the skin to lose it's elasticity in that way.

So what does cause the follicle to be held open for that period such that it loses it's ability to return to it's normal size? In all cases ice pick scars are caused by cystic acne.In every single case.

next up: " I had laser hair removal on my chin years ago which only caused more hair. For years I have been tweezing"


Of the two assertions here, the tweezing is more likely in your case to be the cause of the course growth and ingrowns. I think there are other contributing factors however.

next: "I have recently begun electrolysis. She is using thermolysis and I have had 4 or 5 sessions. During the session occasionally I hear the popping sound (crackle). I noticed like the last time I got electroysis she really has to tug on some of the hairs to get them out. "


The crackle is called high frequency blowout. It can happen on rare occasion by accident, but consistently would indicate an issue with power levels or depth of insertion. Tugging would indicate insufficient and ineffective treatment.

and finally: "Afterwards I am a little swollen but otherwise ok. After several hours I get pimples that are worse than any breakout ever. They are more like pustules or cysts. I have done my best to heal the skin between sessions not wearing makeup and occasionally even applying Calamine lotion. Is this normal. I expressed to the operator who has 20 or more years experience and is a nurse that I was concerned that after several months I would be experiencing no permanent removal. She assured me that she can do it and that it is normal and some of the hairs and follicles are curved (I am prone to this and ingrown hairs). "

the infamous "wall of whiteheads" is caused by contamination by some substance or could be related to a metalurgical allergy. I would NOT use the calamine lotion.You should use NO PRODUCT in the24 hours post trreatment. I recommend cleansing with cool water a few times a day, and ceasing makeup , suntan lotion, or facial scrubs during this period.If after cleansing, using no product whatsoever and still seeing these type of cysts, I would recommend a gold probe be used for treatment. It's not unheard of, that allergies to the nickle in stainless steel can cause a histimine reaction.And of course your electrologist should be wearing gloves.I'd be very surprised if a nurse would not be anyway.


Alright, so now I'd like to sum up what I'm thinking from your case and description.
First, modality is not going to make a tremendous amount of difference. The correct modality, is the one your electrologist is most proficient in. They all kill hair, they all leave perfect skin.
What I suspect from your description and alluded to briefly previously is, *drumroll*.............I believe it likely you have a hormonal imbalance.What's telling me this is your skins sensativity to acne, and excess hair, in combination with the hair. This is most commonly caused by an excess of di-hydra-testosterone in the blood stream. This can be genetic, but is also often caused by diet or conditions such as cushings disease, thyroid issues, or polycystic ovarian syndrome. In almost all cases where I see these 2 items combined, I refer the client over to their family doctor to have their levels checked with a blood test. When they are indeed high, often the doctors will recommend a ultrasound to check for ovarian cysts.
The reason it's important to check on this is it will affect your hair removal. If a hormonal imbalance is present and isnt addressed, new follicles can continue to be stimulated into hair-bearing long after the treatment should have been finished.

Your question amounts not so much to what modality should I be using, but should I be continuing with my present electrologist. Or should you try another and compare differences.Given the occasional high frequency blowout, the tugging. and the continued issues with contamination of the area, and also given that I believe it's a good idea to ALWAYS try out as many as you can and choose the one whose treatment you like best'm going to say yeas it's worth while. This is not to say your electrologist is doing anything wrong, but it is worthwhile on the basis of having an objective point of view.As for what modality they use, it honestly does not make a difference.


Seana
_________________________
Seana Richmond
Certified Electrologist.
Electrolysis By Seana
http://electrolysisbyseana.com

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#125655 - 01/16/18 07:35 PM Re: Advice: Should I switch to someone who uses blend? [Re: endlesshello]
endlesshello Offline
Contributor

Registered: 01/16/18
Posts: 11
It was unlike anything I have ever experienced. The bumps were in some cases like bubbles and I could feel the pressure (I won't go into gory detail). That didn't happen when I had electrolysis previously so I don't think it is allergy. She does wear gloves.

I have gotten a blood test twice because of the hair growth and both times they claim the hormone levels are "normal". I try not to be a vain person, but how do people deal with the course beard hair and a face that looks like a war zone between treatments with no makeup while still maintaining their normal life? There are not a lot of options where I live, but there are a couple listed in the directory on this site that I could try. I have a feeling this current electrologist might be offended but this is a lot of time money and pain to go through and I want it to work.

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#125658 - 01/17/18 11:06 AM Re: Advice: Should I switch to someone who uses blend? [Re: endlesshello]
Iluv2zap Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 11/19/14
Posts: 1223
Try having a gold needle used anyway. Often allergic reactions develop over time. I didnt used to get hives every time I washed clothes or bedding in commercial laundry detergent, but I definitely do now.The veracity of the reaction though, does sound like a potential histimine reaction.

I often find medical professionals are hesitant to diagnose a hormonal issue. Often this is because they know the hormone balance can change, also the "normal levels " of androgens in the bloodstream are a very broad range. It helps, to ask for a number from the test. If it's zero ( never is) then there truly is not an androgen issue but you can still experience genetic growth.

As for how do people survive? The worst of the skin reaction is usually at the beginning of the process . As a rule, the skin quality improves throughout treatment.

I recently started a case on a early 20's transwoman. This person is not out to their family, and has never been on HRT . Due to their youg age the beard was not advanced, but it was still significant. Most importantly they had never plucked, never done laser . I worked efficiently at the rate of an hour a week for 8 weeks to remove the hair. I removed a LOT of hair in short order. And yes, the first few times I threated them their skin looked a little "beat up" at the end of treatment. That 8 weeks I made steady progress and I was able to clear their face completely this past sunday for the second time ( the first was just before christmas when they went home for 3 weeks) . As of now, every treatment between now and the end of semester for this student, the goal is to keep removing the hair. But the skin is no longer "beat up " looking. Even in this 3 month period, the clients skin has transitioned from significant skin reactions, to almost none at all.Such is the way treatment goes! Also I will note that the majority of the skin reaction is from the hair itself, not the electrolysis treatment.This is why the skin quality improves over treatment, because the amount of hair causing the disruption decreases!

Believe in your skins ability to heal. Do review the following skin healing series published by Michael Bono. It can go a long way to alleviating your fears:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viKQcBAHLOI&list=PLeYuCaeN4D7PpsKYHFJ7tKr0yJoIyTSQO

Seana


Edited by Iluv2zap (01/17/18 11:09 AM)
_________________________
Seana Richmond
Certified Electrologist.
Electrolysis By Seana
http://electrolysisbyseana.com

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#125659 - 01/17/18 03:20 PM Re: Advice: Should I switch to someone who uses blend? [Re: endlesshello]
endlesshello Offline
Contributor

Registered: 01/16/18
Posts: 11
Thanks Seana, I feel better after reading this. The electrologist told me to be patient and get something called dermaseptic made for after treatments.

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#125664 - 01/19/18 08:04 AM Re: Advice: Should I switch to someone who uses blend? [Re: endlesshello]
Scurvy Offline
Member

Registered: 11/12/14
Posts: 9
I would be curious to see an image before and after treatment. After my first few treatments, the condition of my skin was very poor and noticeably so. After roughly two months of treatments, I still have a reaction though not to the same extent as before, and my skin returns almost to normal within a few days. I expect it will only get better from here.

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#125665 - 01/19/18 10:01 AM Re: Advice: Should I switch to someone who uses blend? [Re: endlesshello]
endlesshello Offline
Contributor

Registered: 01/16/18
Posts: 11
I have somewhat good news to report. I tried another electrologist and did not have the same reaction at all. The original electrologist used a high tech looking Apilus. This electrologist uses what looks like a much older low tech Proteus EP-2000. I should have asked her what settings she used. She really took her time and said that many of my hairs vary in length, diameter, etc. Crossing my fingers that her treatment is effective. I am just thrilled for now that I didn't have the reaction I had before. I woke up with one pimple, and one scab and that is it.

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#125666 - 01/19/18 10:03 AM Re: Advice: Should I switch to someone who uses blend? [Re: endlesshello]
endlesshello Offline
Contributor

Registered: 01/16/18
Posts: 11
This current electrolysis also said that it may take as long as a year to achieve permanent removal. Sadly, she is significantly more expensive than the previous and more expensive than anyone else that I have looked up.

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#125667 - 01/19/18 10:06 AM Re: Advice: Should I switch to someone who uses blend? [Re: endlesshello]
endlesshello Offline
Contributor

Registered: 01/16/18
Posts: 11
This current electrolysis also said that it may take as long as a year to achieve permanent removal. Sadly, she is significantly more expensive than the previous and more expensive than anyone else that I have looked up.

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#125669 - 01/19/18 10:11 AM Re: Advice: Should I switch to someone who uses blend? [Re: endlesshello]
endlesshello Offline
Contributor

Registered: 01/16/18
Posts: 11
Oh, one more thing, sadly she also had to tug on the hairs to get them out, but she did seem to think she was getting good epilation and showed me the hair with the sheath intact. The hairs are very stubborn.

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#125672 - 01/19/18 10:19 AM Re: Advice: Should I switch to someone who uses blend? [Re: endlesshello]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3237
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
No such thing as a "stubborn hair." (Okay, maybe one out of a 1,000.) Looking at a hair with an intact sheath tells you nothing. Such "intact hairs" can be tweezed and look identical. Just saying ...

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#125674 - 01/19/18 11:15 AM Re: Advice: Should I switch to someone who uses blend? [Re: endlesshello]
endlesshello Offline
Contributor

Registered: 01/16/18
Posts: 11
I totally agree Michael but she claims she went back to the hairs she had to tug on and applied more intensity? It was definitely a more comfortable experience. I may try one more electrolygist who is experienced in both thermolysis and blend before calling it a day. She is unfortunately an hours drive from me but her prices are reasonable and she is CPE.

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#125677 - 01/19/18 12:03 PM Re: Advice: Should I switch to someone who uses blend? [Re: endlesshello]
Iluv2zap Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 11/19/14
Posts: 1223
This is a good strategy.Try as many as are available and go with the one who you are most comfortable with their treatment. Good release of the hair is essential. Going back to the occasional hair you experienced some traction from is a good strategy, but if this is happening consistently it could mean undertreatment. The courser deeper hairs require more energy to make them release properly and the energy must be in just the right place.

The "Newish high tech looking Apilus" sounds like the Xcell. If it had a touch screen definitely so. This is the same epilator I use in my clinic and that Dee uses as well.It's star modalities are picoflash and Synchro thermolysis.In my practise, I'm getting a much better kill rate than even I expected with it, whether due to the machine or skill, I am sometimes finding clients finishing up in less than half of what I originally quoted them for total time to completion, and to numbers very much in line with numbers others have expressed here for similar cases.But in the end, the machine itself, is immaterial. You can use a proteus or a 10 year old apilus or a silouette tone or clairblend or instantron, it really doesnt matter as far as the treatment goes , you will still make progress. One of the facts drilled into me by the professionals here on hairtell, in particular Mr James Walker, was that a 10 or 15 year old epilator, is still effective in the right hands at killing just as much hair as a brand new one.It's the skill of the electrologist that makes the most difference in kill rate.

Seana
_________________________
Seana Richmond
Certified Electrologist.
Electrolysis By Seana
http://electrolysisbyseana.com

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#125681 - 01/20/18 12:13 AM Re: Advice: Should I switch to someone who uses blend? [Re: endlesshello]
endlesshello Offline
Contributor

Registered: 01/16/18
Posts: 11
I may have spoken too soon, once again having a really bad skin day. In addition I am seeing quite a few hairs the new electrologist didn't get. One hair now appears to be ingrown. I am super flaky but cautious to put anything on it because of my acne prone skin.

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#125682 - 01/20/18 06:41 AM Re: Advice: Should I switch to someone who uses blend? [Re: Michael Bono]
Josefa M. Reina Offline
Contributor

Registered: 05/15/17
Posts: 41
Originally Posted By Michael Bono
No such thing as a "stubborn hair." (Okay, maybe one out of a 1,000.) Looking at a hair with an intact sheath tells you nothing. Such "intact hairs" can be tweezed and look identical. Just saying ...


Total and absolutely agree with Michael!

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#125683 - 01/20/18 06:52 AM Re: Advice: Should I switch to someone who uses blend? [Re: endlesshello]
Josefa M. Reina Offline
Contributor

Registered: 05/15/17
Posts: 41
Originally Posted By endlesshello
Oh, one more thing, sadly she also had to tug on the hairs to get them out, but she did seem to think she was getting good epilation and showed me the hair with the sheath intact. The hairs are very stubborn.


If she had to tug on the hairs to get them out, it is impossible that she was getting good epilation with electrolysis. Both concepts are totally contradictory.

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#125738 - 02/01/18 11:58 AM Re: Advice: Should I switch to someone who uses blend? [Re: endlesshello]
endlesshello Offline
Contributor

Registered: 01/16/18
Posts: 11
Also, I want to address the comment that I didn't scar from my first electrolysis. I did in fact scar which is why I was so hesitant to ever try again. The first time years ago, the lady used a probe that was much larger (assume in diameter) and I could feel a puncture each time it was inserted into my skin. It did scar me and maybe I just didn't describe the scarring in the right way, but they are very evident especially in daylight and at close range.

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#125739 - 02/01/18 11:59 AM Re: Advice: Should I switch to someone who uses blend? [Re: endlesshello]
endlesshello Offline
Contributor

Registered: 01/16/18
Posts: 11
I am trying a 3rd electrologist tomorrow.

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#125740 - 02/02/18 03:04 PM Re: Advice: Should I switch to someone who uses blend? [Re: endlesshello]
Iluv2zap Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 11/19/14
Posts: 1223
I've been deliberately avoiding responding to this message, in the hopes that either Michael or Josepha would pop in. Both are more qualified to respond to the inferrence that you have been somehow "scarred" by previous treatment.

Using a too large of probe, wont cause scarring, whether you are using whatever modality.It is almost impossible to "puncture the skin" with large probes because they are blunt. They do not have sharpened points and are not designed to be used to puncture the skin. As an electrologist I can give you the consistent advice given to me by every electrologist here, and that is to use as large a probe as you can insert into the follicle. Sometimes you will feel some probing, but this DOES NOT lead to scarring of any kind.Even if they were to insert well beyound the base of the follicle and rupture the lining, and then release a electrolysis current, such a current would NOT result in scarring of any kind. In electrolysis , actual "scarring" can only occur under very specific circumstances, and your explanation didnt and cannot satisfy those circumstances.
Permanent scarring is almost unheard of in modern electrology. Yet it remains the number one anxiety from people undergoing electrolysis.
Mike Bono has a wonderful video series that I often recommend for people in situations such as yours, you can find it here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viKQcBAHLOI&list=PLeYuCaeN4D7PpsKYHFJ7tKr0yJoIyTSQO

Dont let the anxiety monster get you down. Electrolysis works, and remains now as it always has been a safe and effective method of permanent hair removal.

Outside of the methods described in Michaels video , there are very few ways to cause a "permanent scar" through electrolysis. Your supposition that by puncturing the skin and releasing the current in no related tissues, wouldn't result in permanent scarring.

I've been a member of this forum for some years, more than I care to count.We've seen thousands of images here over those years from many clients claiming to have "permanent scarring from electrolysis". Do you want to know how many have been shown to be actual scarring caused by electrolysis in all of hairtell history? Zero! Not one!Not a single case could be proven to be scarring caused by electrolysis. This is how I know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that you are incorrect about this issue.

Do try the third electrologist and good luck!
Seana



Edited by Iluv2zap (02/02/18 03:08 PM)
_________________________
Seana Richmond
Certified Electrologist.
Electrolysis By Seana
http://electrolysisbyseana.com

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#125741 - 02/02/18 07:37 PM Re: Advice: Should I switch to someone who uses blend? [Re: endlesshello]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3237
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
I just noticed this thread Seana, and thanks for you kind and thoughtful comments.

In all the years of doing this "zap thing" the two words that clients never forget and repeat endlessly (well, not all of them) are: "scars" and "regrowth."

Every returning hair is "regrowth," and every temporary mark ... all of them ... is a scar. You'll get used to it in a few decades!

Also noteworthy is that 100% of all my clients who complained about "scars and regrowth" ... just stopped complaining or worrying when the process was over.

Only now-and-then I hear from former clients that take the time to praise electrolysis ... and are thankful for the work we all do, that was performed well and actually achieved permanent hair removal. "Yes we can." (Where have I heard that before?)

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