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#126426 - 04/28/18 06:25 PM Permanent pigmentation change
Kate Blue Offline
Contributor

Registered: 10/05/17
Posts: 33
The inspiration to start this topic was a conversation that I had will a fellow TS girl last week. We talked about various TS-related topics with hair removal being one of them.

Basically, among many things, she claimed that people undergoing beard removal with thermolysis have to be very careful as there is the risk of PERMANENT pigmentation change to more gray'ish one, which can look like a beard shadow even if there is no hair left! I asked her if she has perhaps mistaken it for the ordinary hyperpigmentation but she insisted that this is a completely different phenomenon. I have also asked her about the source of this information and she clarified that it was her own, galvanic-only, electrologist who explained "all the risks" to her.

After coming back home I became very intrigued about what she was saying. I've heard about scars, scabs, wrinkles, enlarged pores, hyperpigmentation etc. before but never about 'fake beard shadow' from failed thermolysis. I've searched the Internet but it was to no avail.

Now I would like to ask experienced people on this forum: Could there be any grain of truth in what she was saying or is it some complete BS intended to promote galvanic-only electrolysis again?


Edited by Kate Blue (04/28/18 06:28 PM)

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#126430 - 04/28/18 07:35 PM Re: Permanent pigmentation change [Re: Kate Blue]
zapmyface Offline
Top 20 Contributor

Registered: 02/18/18
Posts: 218
Blue eyes pale skin here, never experimented any permanent colour change, but I guess I'm not prone to it (or noticing it). I did however experience scars with thermo, but the colour came back to normal after SEVERAL months. It's bright red at first then changes to darker colours (could be where her ''grey tone'' came from depending on skin colour).

I would honestly never worry about colour changes as a few experienced people here have always said that it is always temporary. I would however be wary of someone ''bashing'' a method to promote her own.


Edited by zapmyface (04/28/18 07:48 PM)

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#126433 - 04/28/18 10:08 PM Re: Permanent pigmentation change [Re: Kate Blue]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3505
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
Sounds like the Susan Laird nonsense AGAIN. Here's the problem: with a little personally gathered data people make drastic and over-reaching generalizations. It's like the old story of five blind men touching an elephant, and then explaining what it is: a rope, a wall, a tree, a snake?

There have been millions of treatment by all the modalities and, by now, if one actually caused bad results we would all know about it.

To answer your question: BULL SHIT!


Edited by Michael Bono (04/28/18 10:08 PM)

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#126434 - 04/29/18 12:14 AM Re: Permanent pigmentation change [Re: Kate Blue]
Iluv2zap Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 11/19/14
Posts: 1547
it's complete hogwash.
I'm a fellow transgirl, did my own face in blend, and I treat other transwomen with thermolysis every day with no ill effects.No "grey tone" . I agree with michael, it sounds like the susan laird nonsense.
_________________________
Seana Richmond
Certified Electrologist.
Electrolysis By Seana
http://electrolysisbyseana.com

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#126436 - 04/29/18 08:20 AM Re: Permanent pigmentation change [Re: Kate Blue]
Kate Blue Offline
Contributor

Registered: 10/05/17
Posts: 33
Thank you both for responding. Yeah, that's what I was suspecting.

However, I doubt the girl who told me this information was referencing Susan Laird as we're both from central Europe, not US (unless she read that online).

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#126448 - 05/01/18 03:28 AM Re: Permanent pigmentation change [Re: Kate Blue]
Ton Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 07/02/16
Posts: 59
One electrologist told me that there is a transwoman who had her beard removed and there is now a "permanent"(?) mark left of where her beard used to be. So, now people can tell that she used to have a beard. She said it's because she had all her facial hair removed in one go, so that they had to do lymphatic drainage, because the face swells so much from doing "clear-cutting" instead of "selective logging". Ie., she believes that treating hairs too-closely spaced to each other in one day caused this. She advocates the "thinning-out" method to avoid this. But, perhaps I have misremembered exactly what s/he said to me, or I am misinterpreting. I don't know if this is true or not; I've never seen this person or any similar case.

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#126482 - 05/04/18 10:40 AM Re: Permanent pigmentation change [Re: Ton]
WeRNotAfraid Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 07/28/02
Posts: 397
Loc: Dallas
Originally Posted By Ton
One electrologist told me that there is a transwoman who had her beard removed and there is now a "permanent"(?) mark left of where her beard used to be. So, now people can tell that she used to have a beard. She said it's because she had all her facial hair removed in one go, so that they had to do lymphatic drainage, because the face swells so much from doing "clear-cutting" instead of "selective logging". Ie., she believes that treating hairs too-closely spaced to each other in one day caused this. She advocates the "thinning-out" method to avoid this. But, perhaps I have misremembered exactly what s/he said to me, or I am misinterpreting. I don't know if this is true or not; I've never seen this person or any similar case.


There may be some truth to this one: "clear cutting" is awful for the facial skin, and I ended up with pretty bad skin damage around my mouth from this. It didn't look like I had a beard, but it caused pock marks and atrophy and deep wrinkles that made my lip/chin area look like that of a 65 year old smoker while the rest of my face looked my actual, youngish age. I ended up needing laser resurfacing to fix this. I blame "bulk heating" or overheating of surrounding tissue from having too much high intensity treatment in a very dense, tight area like the lip. The rest of my face, where I had more of a thinning done, healed fine and with no sign I ever had electrolysis. My one regret is undergoing aggressive stripping, but it was very popular at that time and was done along with local anesthetic.

However, I agree that your friend's information sounds like it was cut and pasted from Susan Laird's site, and she is not an accurate source for information. Well-done blend or even flash thermolysis are fine, and badly-done galvanic can maim you just as easily as the thermolysis she evangelically bashes.


Edited by WeRNotAfraid (05/04/18 10:43 AM)

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#126483 - 05/04/18 12:24 PM Re: Permanent pigmentation change [Re: Kate Blue]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3505
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
Indeed, you had damage in the classic danger areas. Why don't most electrologists know about this?

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#126484 - 05/05/18 07:52 AM Re: Permanent pigmentation change [Re: Kate Blue]
zapmyface Offline
Top 20 Contributor

Registered: 02/18/18
Posts: 218
Because, like you said, people would rather talk about preparation and aftercare than the treatment itself (including figuring out what can really cause permanent damage).

We can throw reasons like ''too much intensity'' and ''hairs too close together'', which are probably the truth, but it's still a bit vague to me.

I don't think all our skins are that different (unless there are reptilians here), so I'm wondering if there could be some kind of ''danger zone'' in the settings where you should be very careful as an electrologist. Obviously thinning would be perfect but some electrologists and clients won't like that (no comment). Could a ''bad insertion'' have also something to do with it?

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#126485 - 05/05/18 09:50 AM Re: Permanent pigmentation change [Re: Kate Blue]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3505
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
It's actually not a mystery, because these problems are detailed. Our standard text, A. R. Hinkel, is read by all electyrologists and was first published in 1968 talks about this. Other books, e.g., mine, also talk about these problems.

Most of us are "people pleasers" and cave-in to client's requests (demands). We get pressured into doing too much too soon: too "high" and too close together to clear ASAP.

Transgender clients are the most troublesome because they want that beard off "immediately." If anesthetic is being used, well that's the prescription for a bad outcome (mostly upper lip and chin will be left with dermal contraction scars. "dents").

I often have this conversation that starts with my saying, "How long do you plan to have your skin? ... "

Over the years I have received many frantic calls from electrologists that had a dentist administer anesthetic to an upper lip ... and then cleared off the area (usually more than 2 - 3 hours at high intensity). Again, too fast and too close. However, the anesthetic itself (that adds moisture to the skin and shuts down capillaries ... that cools the skin) greatly contributes to severe overtreatment because immediate effects are not seen. BAD "Ju-Ju" for sure. And, there is no reason for it except operator error. AND, the operator always says, "But they 'wanted it'!"

We can NEVER blame the client! Always "our" fault. Lots of times we have to save the client from THEMSELVES!


Edited by Michael Bono (05/05/18 09:52 AM)

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