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#126713 - 05/20/18 01:04 PM Re: What is better?? 10ms or 3ms and why?? [Re: jcarbon2]
atticusfata Offline
Contributor

Registered: 07/09/13
Posts: 24
Loc: San Antonio, Texas
I am skeptical if that experiment would work. I too had many failed laser treatments which did not make things better but worse. It was only until I started electrolysis that I saw real change. Still I guess you never know until you actually do some experimentation.

So Michael I am curious as to how you use local anesthesia for large areas? I sometimes use local on myself but it only covers a small area. Which is great because it is completely painless in those areas but for larger regions you would need some sort of regional block? I'm also dental hygienist so I am really only familiar with blocks associated in the mouth. Which there are two that are great for the numbing the lip and chin region.

Also good luck on your surgery, I hope everything goes well please keep us updated.

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#126714 - 05/20/18 02:27 PM Re: What is better?? 10ms or 3ms and why?? [Re: jcarbon2]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3490
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
I will be doing videos on this subject (long overdue). Infiltration, not a block. Actually, the only area I won't do with local is the upper lip. I have a lot to say ... eventually.

I won't get into a discussion on this procedure because such topics don't lend themselves to snippets of information and comments.

Thanks for the good cheer ... I'm getting nervous. Hope they give me a LOT of Versed! I don't want to see those big needles (3 of them) in my eye. YIKES!

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#126715 - 05/20/18 05:53 PM Re: What is better?? 10ms or 3ms and why?? [Re: jcarbon2]
Roselake21 Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 03/02/17
Posts: 52
Hello atticusfata, i would like to tell you something, I was the perfect candidat for LHR and I have undergone more than twenty laser treatment. It is a lot and I don’t wish anybody to undergo this process. It was a very sad because the result were not permanent at all. The hairs became thinner a bit but this is all I can say. I received Alexandrite laser and Yag laser with the same disappointing result. It is not that I don’t believe in laster hair removal, the fact is that being the perfect candidat in term of skin color and hair color and texture and having a no permanent, is what I can call a proof that this technology doesn’t provide PERMANENT hair removal. It means that’s the treated follicles were intact after all this treatments. In my opinion this is not worth it based on facts with differents clinics and operators.

I do think laser hair removal, diode laser etc is very good for TEMPORARY hair removal without the disadvantages of waxing(ingrown hairs for some people, irritations.) the problem with this technology is the price and the false ads that come with LHR. IMHO, LHR should be marketed as a temporary solutions without the problematic effects that other temporary solutions for hair removal carries.


Edited by Roselake21 (05/20/18 05:54 PM)

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#126716 - 05/20/18 07:08 PM Re: What is better?? 10ms or 3ms and why?? [Re: jcarbon2]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3490
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
Roselake, your comments are most interesting to me. The electrologists are "sitting" on a mountain of discontent (and astounding possibilities); they just don't realize it ... or understand where their practices should be located.

Over the years, I've experienced five physicians (and three med-spas) enthusiastically put laser hair removal in their practices. After 5-years, the lasers were quietly and unceremoniously removed; all of them so far. (Five years seems to be the "average.") Only Dr. Perkin's "Evolutions" may be the final hold out ... but I'm not 100% sure of it.

I have no particular opinion on this, I'm only reporting real numbers that might cause a person to make their own conclusions. I don't, other possibilities might come into play; not just "it didn't work."

Still, there are a number of reasons why having electrolysis in a medical spa, or plastic surgeon's office, makes good sense (not for the electrologist, or the hair removal patient ... but for the spa AND the physician). More to come: video stuff with corroborative data ... for sure.

Physicians and Spa owners make decisions based on business ... so far they haven't seen "the 'thermolysis' light."

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#126718 - 05/21/18 08:07 AM Re: What is better?? 10ms or 3ms and why?? [Re: Roselake21]
joben Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 11/17/14
Posts: 91
Originally Posted By Roselake21
Hello atticusfata, i would like to tell you something, I was the perfect candidat for LHR and I have undergone more than twenty laser treatment. It is a lot and I don’t wish anybody to undergo this process. It was a very sad because the result were not permanent at all. The hairs became thinner a bit but this is all I can say. I received Alexandrite laser and Yag laser with the same disappointing result. It is not that I don’t believe in laster hair removal, the fact is that being the perfect candidat in term of skin color and hair color and texture and having a no permanent, is what I can call a proof that this technology doesn’t provide PERMANENT hair removal. It means that’s the treated follicles were intact after all this treatments. In my opinion this is not worth it based on facts with differents clinics and operators.

I do think laser hair removal, diode laser etc is very good for TEMPORARY hair removal without the disadvantages of waxing(ingrown hairs for some people, irritations.) the problem with this technology is the price and the false ads that come with LHR. IMHO, LHR should be marketed as a temporary solutions without the problematic effects that other temporary solutions for hair removal carries.

I'm sorry you've had this experience. Without seeing you or knowing the details my initial thought is you weren't treated correctly. I've had LHR 3 times the first being almost 7 years ago and the hair is still gone. Unless there is something about your physiology that prevents hair from being permanently destroyed. Did you go to the same clinic for all 20 treatments?

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#126723 - 05/21/18 01:23 PM Re: What is better?? 10ms or 3ms and why?? [Re: jcarbon2]
Roselake21 Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 03/02/17
Posts: 52
I have been to different clinics. LHR 3 times won’t provide a permanent result as You need 5-6 times to be temporary hair free for a period of time. LHR is not approved by the FDA for permanent hair removal. Electrolysis is.

There is no way I have been incorrectly treated as I have been to dermatologists, cosmetics clinics well known in my city.

LHR only provide a reduction by MINIATURIZATION of the hairs follicles. Electrolysis destroy completely the cells responsible for the growth of the hairs.

My advice is that if you want destroys your hair permanently, you should not consider Laser Hair removal because this technology miniaturize the hairs and make them less visible because they are thinner but when reach another hairs cycle, the hairs will regrowth the same than if you didn’t do anything. This is how LRH works.

Regarding your case I would love to see before and after pictures. It would be very interesting to see what happened to your hairs with LRH.

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#126727 - 05/22/18 08:01 AM Re: What is better?? 10ms or 3ms and why?? [Re: jcarbon2]
joben Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 11/17/14
Posts: 91
I wasn't clear. I've had LHR on 3 different areas. Each area receiving 6 treatments. I know it's not approved by FDA for permanent hair removal. I do think that occasional touch ups might be needed depending on the individual. I like to say that LHR is long-term hair reduction. The areas that I had treated still have hair, but it's 70-90% less which is fine with me. I don't need to be 100% hairless.

Also, just because you went to a dermatologist office doesn't indicate you were treated with optimum laser settings or the correct laser. Maybe you were and maybe you weren't. There are good techs and bad techs everywhere.


Edited by joben (05/22/18 08:02 AM)

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#126728 - 05/22/18 12:16 PM Re: What is better?? 10ms or 3ms and why?? [Re: jcarbon2]
Scurvy Offline
Contributor

Registered: 11/12/14
Posts: 28
After LHR treatments, many people do have fantastic results, and many others have very poor results. It's tempting to bias our own experiences and the similar experiences of others, but the proof is out there that LHR can be effective, but it is also unfortunately unreliable when observing trends. This could be for several reasons, which I won't go into.

The FDA considers both LHR (certain laser manufacturers) and electrolysis to be permanent. The contention is between removal and reduction rather than permanency. There is no miniaturisation of the hair follicle and hairs don't become thinner. The thinner hairs that were covered by thicker hairs previously become more obvious. Therefore a hair is either permanently removed or it isn't.

By all means, criticism of LHR for various reasons is very fair, but we can't get into the science of how and why it does or doesn't work and for whom, because a lot of the explanations that come up are patently unscientific.

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#126745 - 05/24/18 09:44 AM Re: What is better?? 10ms or 3ms and why?? [Re: jcarbon2]
Roselake21 Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 03/02/17
Posts: 52
If a treatment works it is because of scientifics reasons. If it doesn’t works there are also reasons and saying that we can’t develop is not ok IMHO. Electrolysis always works on good hands. Laser hair removal doesn’t often work on many hands. Laser hair removal is not as dependent of the ability of the laser practitioner than electrolysis is. The settings needs to be correctly adjusted. There are differents settings adjustable to treat thin or coarse hair on differents skin complexion. That’s it. If someone is treated with laser with white skin and black hairs( perfect combination for LHR)and if it doesn’t works with the settings approved by the manufacturers (candela) and other higher settings approved and tested by dermatologist on publication, there is only one answer: Laser hair removal can’t kill the hairs. That’s a fact.
And Yes there is miniaturization of the hair follicles. And no the hair is not permanently distroyed.

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#126772 - 05/26/18 01:53 PM Re: What is better?? 10ms or 3ms and why?? [Re: Michael Bono]
Ton Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 07/02/16
Posts: 54
Originally Posted By Michael Bono


Thanks for the good cheer ... I'm getting nervous. Hope they give me a LOT of Versed! I don't want to see those big needles (3 of them) in my eye. YIKES!


So did you get the surgery on Tuesday, Mike? If so, did it go well? Will you still be able to perform electroepilation?

If not, are you still planning on getting the surgery in the future?

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