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#41057 - 04/08/07 12:31 PM Re: Vector unit [Re: James W. Walker VII]
DamnHair Offline
Member

Registered: 04/05/07
Posts: 2
James: so you're saying that all these reviews are fake?
http://www.drugstore.com/qxp143512_33318...model_vctm1.htm
http://www.folica.com/Vector_Electrol_r1790_1.html
They all say the same thing basically, it works, but it's too time demanding.

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#41059 - 04/08/07 12:59 PM Re: Vector unit [Re: DamnHair]
James W. Walker VII Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 8055
Loc: Buffalo NY, & Traveling the US...
In a word, "YES"

No one who uses the vector unit as instructed by the company (that is to say, using it for so called "Trans-Dermal or Trans-Cutatious Electrolysis") will ever achieve permanent hair removal.

Read the previous page for info on why.

Is it possible to modify the Vector to use it for REAL electrolysis, YES again, to which you will have to deal with actually learning to perform good treatments, and the fact that the unit is cheaply made, and the timing per hair is slow, and for the same money, one could have bought a used pro machine and had better equipment that works both better and faster.

Of course, if you had read this whole thread before asking me this question, you would have found that I already stated all that previously in this very thread.
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Setting a goal is not the main thing. It is deciding how you will go about achieving it and staying with that plan. --- Tom Landry
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#41068 - 04/09/07 12:35 AM Re: Vector unit [Re: James W. Walker VII]
Mantaray Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 711
Loc: San Diego, California
 Quote:
They claim it works on most people and surprisingly, without me even asking, they offered me the money back when i told them that i did not feel a tingling effect. Do we really all think that the vector with tweezers doesnt work?


No, the people here that really know and practice successful electrology don't *think* the tweezers do not work, they *know* the tweezers do not work. The tweezers do not work. It is not stated on that FDA website, and it also doesn't state that you can't catch a 400 pound swordfish off the Catalina Islands with a fresh out of the box Pocket Fisherman. It's not a babysitting site. They expect consumers to use common sense as well. And, common sense indicates that hair, being a hydrocarbon based biostructure structure does not conduct electricity to the papilla -Gel or no gel. Are you familiar with biology? There are only a few well known ways humans conduct enough electricity to kill cells, and a few of those involve mass-murderers and telephone line technicians that show up to work drunk. Of course there are things like EEG's pacemakers, and such, but those are passing through moist areas of the body and do not involve the necessity of lye production or killing targeted active cells.

Also note the amount of time that will be needed to clear hair with a small galvanic device. In the amount of time spent to clear one hair, someone with a blend machine just getting their legs under them will run circles around them. And, someone using a thermolysis/flash machine after a year or so, will be in another ballpark in terms of speed and efficiency. Just completely uncomparable higher levels of hair clearing. I don't know about you, but my time is valuable. I do not want to spend three hours with a little battery operated device when I could invest a couple hundred and turn that three hours into twenty minutes, if that. And this ratio of performance is something that will increase over time; the galvanic operator will only improve marginally, the flash users clearing will accelerate far beyond the starting speed, they will have more fun in their free time, and they will be happier people because they will be hair free quicker.

The pros seem to think along these lines because they deal with the serious people, they see the tangible results, they talk to people who have gone that route. I say this because I put my chips in, I paid the bills and I now see the fruits of my investment.

If someone is starting at the beginning, and says, 'I want to use this tweezer machine or this little galvanic machine to clear major body parts'. I think, this person is at the beginning, they are beginning a learning process. They think this way becuase they got on the internet and searched 'remove hair' and as a result the aavex machine, No! No!, hairaway, GHR, or the vector machine came up in the first few results. There are scams out there that thrive on misleading these little newborns, like hawks preying on a nest of ducklings, but not every little chicky is going to live. Some will pay the hawk vultures money and try the tweezers then give up totally. Some will try them, but start seeing an electrologist, some will try the vector with a needle, realize the amount of time it will take, and buy a better machine, and some will take advice from the many who've been there and will either see an electrologist or read books, buy good equipment, and do what it takes to do this seriously on their own. But one of two things will occur; they will give up and start shaving again, or they will seek the tried and true paths that accomplish permanent hair removal.

Mantaray
_________________________
Mantaray

Electrolysis, since 1875

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#41070 - 04/09/07 12:56 AM Re: Vector unit [Re: Mantaray]
DamnHair Offline
Member

Registered: 04/05/07
Posts: 2
James: What makes you think i didnt read the previous thread? No, i seriously doubt that all those average ppl modified their product in any way. They would probably have stated that if they did. So, is it fake as in the company themselves wrote something or did the customers (still in ur opinion) modify the product to get results?

PS, you've got some sort of attitude, i dont know what to make of it. I read the whole thread.

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#41073 - 04/09/07 05:59 AM Re: Vector unit [Re: DamnHair]
Chuck Offline
Top 20 Contributor

Registered: 05/12/04
Posts: 272
Loc: Kansas City, MO
 Originally Posted By: DamnHair
James: What makes you think i didnt read the previous thread? No, i seriously doubt that all those average ppl modified their product in any way. They would probably have stated that if they did. So, is it fake as in the company themselves wrote something or did the customers (still in ur opinion) modify the product to get results?

PS, you've got some sort of attitude, i dont know what to make of it. I read the whole thread.


I would imagine the people that reviewed that product positively did so because they could remove the hair without plucking it out. The heat may be strong enough to make the hair losen and come out easily, but it's going to be hard to tell if it's permanent for a while. This will give people a positive image of the device, although the results are not permanent. I thought laser was great too after the first twelve weeks of treatment only to see it ALL grow back.

But then again, I'm only guessing. Everything about this device to me makes no sense though. The only person I know that has had success with the Vector modified it to become a needle galvantic machine.
_________________________
300 Estimated Hours of Electrolysis Needed.
58 Estimated Hours of Electrolysis Left.
$14,356 Spent

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#53741 - 07/09/08 11:00 PM Re: Vector unit [Re: Tor]
Ruby23 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 7
Okay, so first let me say that I have read all of your posts, most of which reiterate that you believe that tweezer units don't work. Second, I have no financial interest whatsoever either way. I am just a girl with a lot of black hair growing out of my chin. I work a desk job in nonprofit theatre.

I have also perused the FDA website and many product reviews by individual users. FDA says, basically, no proof either way. Users say it's hard to use, but some report getting results, although in very general terms. I also am aware that some reviews and posts are obviously by people being paid to post them.

I bought a Vector about two years ago. I tried it, it was hard (and a little scary) to use, and I only used it a few times before stuffing it in the closet. I also have had a series of laser treatments, with hair growing back after a few months (or new hair growth), bought OneTouch a million years ago (hokey and dangerous), tried Sephora's nono! (minimal results), and have bleached, waxed, shaved, tweezed, and had my hormone levels tested.

What it has boiled down to is that, as I can't afford to spend any new money on another round of laser or pro electrolysis right no, over the last year I would do a "hair check" in the car with a magnifying mirror each day when I left work, plucking an average of 10 - 30 dark chin hairs every day.

So I have decided to give the Vector another try. I started 13 weeks ago. I do between 1 and 3 sessions per week and do use any other method (except occassionally shaving if it's critical) in between. After a few weeks, I got a technique down, so there is very little chance of skin injury, and I feel I have nothing to lose but time right now. I am planning to continue through September, when I think it will be clear whether this works.

At this point, I now only have around ten hairs to remove at each session. This is greatly reduced from 10 - 30 each and every day. As I said, I am not using any other method. If this is simply glorified tweezing, why am I seeing a reduction in regrowth?

I will report back when the experiment is over, provided people are understanding that I plan on seeing this through. Again, I do hear that most of you report that, in theory, galvanized tweezers can't work.

If this doesn't work, I'll probably look into purchasing a professional stylus, or perhaps I'll have funds to go get zapped by someone else by then.

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#53748 - 07/10/08 12:59 AM Re: Vector unit [Re: Ruby23]
LAgirl Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 12/22/04
Posts: 9994
Loc: New York, NY
I don't know if you're actually seeing a reduction. You won't be able to tell until you stop for at least 2-3 months after doing this for at least 9-10 months (to go through all the hair cycles). What may be happening is that when you plucked, some of the hairs broke off half way and didn't come out with the root. And now that you're using this, you're pulling them out without breaking.

I'm not sure how much you can afford, but all those gimmicks are pretty expensive. Electrolysis is not that expensive for this little (relatively) hair. It's around $60 per hour and removes on average 5-6 hairs per minute. For you, that would probably mean 20 mins per week to start and then down to only once every 3 weeks after a couple months. It is permanent and it works, in good hands of course.

What type of laser did you use? Is the hair coarse? If it's not, it's not surprising that it didn't work. And if it is, the likely reason is that inappropriate machine, settings, etc were used as there are tons of clinics out there who don't know what they're doing and in it to sell you packages and make money. For this small area, laser shouldn't be expensive at all (I don't consider $40-50 per treatment for 8 treaments spaced 2 months apart a lot of money for a permanent solution). Of course, that would only be an option if you're a good candidate.

You also mention in your previous post about women in your family having hair issues as well. You may want to see an endocrinologist to test for hormonal conditions. If you have an underlying condition that's causing this growth, you'll always need touchups because permanent hair removal methods can only kill the hair that's currently there. They can't prevent new growth. For that, you'd have to get on birth control or other medication to balance out your hormones.

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#53755 - 07/10/08 12:11 PM Re: Vector unit [Re: LAgirl]
James W. Walker VII Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 8055
Loc: Buffalo NY, & Traveling the US...
I hope you took before, during and after photographs to help you along, as it will take a year to properly judge what results you have received.
_________________________
http://www.executiveclearance.com/beforeandafter.html
Setting a goal is not the main thing. It is deciding how you will go about achieving it and staying with that plan. --- Tom Landry
Has this site helped you? Pay it forward. Donate to keep HairTell & Hairfacts Online at http://www.hairfacts.com/feedback/support-this-site/

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#53765 - 07/10/08 10:23 PM Re: Vector unit [Re: LAgirl]
Ruby23 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 7
Right, I understand it'll take a while after I stop to see if there is a permanent reduction. I took care to make sure I was getting the bulb of the hair when tweezing, and probably have more of a chance of breaking off hairs with the crappy Vector tweezers. But we'll see what happens - if I am getting any reduction than regrowth should continue to decrease throughout the summer and stay gone many months after I stop treating.

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#53766 - 07/10/08 10:28 PM Re: Vector unit [Re: James W. Walker VII]
Ruby23 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 7
Originally Posted By: James W. Walker VII, CPE
I hope you took before, during and after photographs to help you along, as it will take a year to properly judge what results you have received.


Unfortunately, I didn't. I didn't think of it until I visited the board yesterday, and I don't have anyone that I'm willing to let take closeups of my grizzly chin (I do my best to hide all this from my boyfriend and friends.) I know it would be helpful in convincing you all if I DO see any results, but I think it'll be obvious to me whether it worked or not several months after I stop treating at the end of the summer.

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