Subscribe & Support This Site!
consumer hair removal forum
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
Hop To:
#33474 - 06/12/06 01:16 AM Getting Started with Electrolysis
Mantaray Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 711
Loc: San Diego, California
I get so into reading some of these excellently informative posts that I go days without posting. But since now I have my own pro-machine I want to say that all these tips on books, lamps, magnifiers, and hints are so motivating to cough up more cash to donate to this board as it has given so much to me.

Anyway, the Bono book is a tough cookie to find. Amazon has something like two copies for $175 each. I'm seriously considering buying it at that price because waiting for it to appear elsewhere seems like it's never going to happen. I wanted to read it before I start.

I've gone through all the manuals I received with the machine and learned how to adjust all the parameters. I've learned that understanding the machine completely is a pure necessity. As mentioned by James, a programmable machine with presets really helps the beginner. I think getting started with something like a Hinkle Classic or Instatron, with the two analog knobs, that may have came with no manuals would be far harder to start out with.

I have a video that was given to me when I purchased the machine and apparently Silhouet Tone has more instructional items that can be purchased. Videos/ DVD's are great and are very, very helpful. Use of the machine is okay learning from the book, theory is best learned through a book as well, but improvement in actual technique can really takes watching a pro-level operator which the DVD's help alot!. I watch my Electrologists hands very carefully, finger positioning, angle, speed, movement with the tweezers. I've practiced on a banana to get the pedal feeling down, and don't plan on using Sensor/Delay until 30 minutes with all first attempts completed can be accomplished(unrealistic?). This is all with galvanic of course, because now, studying on how Thermolysis/Superflash depends so much on good, close insertions, I see it's something left to later days. This is only with magnifying reading glasses and a flourescent light on a swingarm, latex gloves, and with the patient (the banana) on the kitchen table.

My next purchases are going to be a magnification headset, a good, solid swingarm lamp with the high intensity light bulb that James recommended, and a cart for the machine. At first I thought it could just be set on a small table, but the low stable cart/tray with rollers now seems like something of a necessity. I do not want this thing to ever tip over or get bumped as the machines are set to a calibration that needs to be rechecked every so often, and I need a place to put the accessories, needles, and mount a good sturdy swing arm light.

I think this is definitely something to work at to get that confidence in performing those good, clean, first attempt insertions down, but do feel it's something realistic. Other beginners reading this should keep in mind I have a formal medical background and experience working with advanced equipment, and a healthy supply of caution. I just wish there was a course I could take somewhere other than the Long Beach, California school 150 miles to the north. I really wouldn't dream of stopping my visits to my electrologist, and she is always helpful in giving out advice.

Personally? I think the American Electrology Association should takes steps to promote their science. Already sharing customers from the the laser and wax markets, making people take massage and beauty courses, if they can get to a school, seems an unneccessary hinderance. It should be offered at the junior college level, and maybe one JC per city, like police academies or Physical Therapy Assistant courses. I think in making it an exclusive profession, they've haven't positioned themselves for growth. There's no more than ten electrologist available in San Diego, and it's such a time intensive trade. This scarcity is what makes some consider buying their own machines.

Anyway, just my thoughts now that I've come to learn more about the trade, the skill, and the machines.

Items gathered from some posts by DIY, James, Dee, Rhonda, and myself that are on the necessary list:

A good machine that an operator has complete knowledge of it's operation and settings
#3 Needles (I have Ballets, my Electrologist uses them as well)
A sturdy swivelling lamp with a very bright white light
Reading glasses (1x)
Binocoulars (aka 'Loupes') 1x or 2x (?)
A cart to put all this stuff and keep it stored in good working order.
Alcohol with a sterile container for swabs
Latex gloves
A little red sharps disposal

...and no coffee, or funny movies on TV


Mantaray
_________________________
Mantaray

Electrolysis, since 1875

Top
Sponsored Links
#33475 - 06/12/06 01:57 AM Re: Getting Started with Electrolysis
dfahey Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 9670
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
Bono's book can be found at www.prestigeelectrolysis.com, that is, the newer edition. Hopefully, they still have stock left?

Probes come in all sizes. I use the smallest "2's" to the largest, "6's", depending on the diameter of the hair.

I'm finding it hard to believe there are maybe only 10 electrologists is San Diego, but I believe what you say. It is no wonder you are attempting this on yourself. We don't recommend self-electrolysis, but you sound better than others as far as being cautious. Maybe you will find it desirable to join the professional ranks and become an electrologist???? hmmm?

As far as the American Electrology Association is concerned, they are aware of what you are saying and are working hard on several issues at this time, as I and others have been assured. They are not unaware about certain weakness's. Have you seen their new "Working Wonders" campaign marketing information? Go to www.electrology.com and tell us what you think!

Thanks for your thoughts and do be careful. Performing electrolysis is not as easy as you think, without proper training, as I'm sure you are discovering.

Dee
_________________________
Dee Fahey, R.N., C.T.
Licensed by the State Medical Board of Ohio for Nursing license and Cosmetic Therapy/Electrolysis license
_____________________
ELECTROLYSIS FAQ'S:

British Institute & Association of Electrolysis

http://www.electrolysis.co.uk/?page_id=16

Do not give up, the beginning is always the hardest.

Top
#33476 - 06/12/06 01:00 PM Re: Getting Started with Electrolysis
James W. Walker VII Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 8055
Loc: Buffalo NY, & Traveling the US...
The best source for the Bono Book from what I have found is Texas Electrolysis Supply 16627 Sea Lark Road, Houston, TX 77062 Telephone: 1-800-626-6025 Fax: 1-888-508-8508 They had the new version hot off the presses. There is no reason to pay Amazon's price when you can get a new one for about $50 from TES. (well, no reason unless it is the first edition with all the extra pages that have been taken out of the newer version.)

I tell people about that easier to get the hang of thing, and I get accused of trying to sell expensive epilators all the time. Thanks for making it real to some people.

As for the Junior College thing, we have been trying to get that done for years, but we have an image problem. JC's don't think Electrolysis Training is Glamorous enough to have on their campus. They will do Dental Hygienist courses to death, but they think that an Electrology course would "cheapen their image". We even had a course with nearly 30 paid students canceled prior to graduating the group who expected to get a two year course because the incoming college administration was horrified to find such an embarrassing major in the course listings. That same year, they continued a Dental Hygienist Major that had 7 participants.

This industry is stuck between trying to convince these JC's to make money on a course that would have at least as many members as any Dental Hygienist course, and trying to create a network of independent schools offering good training.

At least you have a school you could conceivably attend, most people don't have a course they could attend in driving distance from their homes.
_________________________
http://www.executiveclearance.com/beforeandafter.html
Setting a goal is not the main thing. It is deciding how you will go about achieving it and staying with that plan. --- Tom Landry
Has this site helped you? Pay it forward. Donate to keep HairTell & Hairfacts Online at http://www.hairfacts.com/feedback/support-this-site/

Top
#33477 - 06/12/06 02:54 PM Re: Getting Started with Electrolysis
Arlene R. Batz, CPE Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/14/05
Posts: 1162
Loc: New York City - Queens
Dear Mantaray,

You mentioned 1X and 2X magnification.
If you haven't purchased yet, look into at least a 2.5X or 3X. This provides good magnification at a comfortable working distance.

Good luck.
_________________________
Arlene Batz, CPE: Educator, Board Certified Electrologist, NYS Licensed Esthetician.
http://endunwantedhair.com

Top
#33478 - 06/12/06 02:59 PM Re: Getting Started with Electrolysis
Arlene R. Batz, CPE Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/14/05
Posts: 1162
Loc: New York City - Queens
Dear James,

Which school ended the electrology program while 30 students had pre enrolled?

I know that Union County in NJ, temporarily suspended its Electrology curriculum recently but I wasn't sure why.

I do know a number of Electrology Schools, not related to any colleges, that have closed their doors over the past decade and that Esthetic and Cosmetology Schools have lost interest in developing their electrology programs because of a lack of student interest. I know this to be true because over the past 2 years, I have spoken with school administrators from several schools in NYC. This had been earlier confirmed when I personally interacted with beauty school students who showed very little interest in the electrology program and much more interest in the laser course. (The laser course is cheaper and requires far less training and hours. The students also felt that they were more marketable if they had laser training.)

Electrolysis has had a brutal history and we need everyone to become a master of PR.

1) Although Electrolysis was discovered by a physician, physicians in this country have shown little interest in offering it as a service. For the most part, they don't even want to have a trained professional in their office to administer the treatment because... it is not economically sound. Why should they have an office devoted to one patient when the most they can charge is about $100 an hour, high end. These docs can use their space and workers to generate far more than $100 an hour.

2) Electrolysis has been viewed as ineffective because lots of non needle methods have been called electrolysis along with home gadgets and the public has been confused and fooled.

3) Its a service that is being primarily administered by women. Believe me, if we were a profession dominated mostly be men, um, I think most electrologists would be out of the basement.

I would like to share something very interesting with you... lately, I am noticing that more and more of the people showing an interest in having electrolysis services offered are those who are already in the laser hair removal business as they want to have, on hand, a trained electrologist to do, what they refer to, as the white hair clean-ups.

I have seen so many of these white hair clean-ups and I tell you, I end up treating a lot of hair that is quite dark too.

In any event James, would you let me know more about that Junior College situation? Either here or via email or phone, all fine.

Thanks,

Arlene R. Batz, CPE
718 206-2744
electrolysis@juno.com

Top
#33479 - 06/12/06 04:16 PM Re: Getting Started with Electrolysis
James W. Walker VII Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 8055
Loc: Buffalo NY, & Traveling the US...
The doctors I have spoken to don't want electrologists in their offices because they can't find current professionals who do good work, who would come into their practices at the rates they are willing to pay. This leaves them needing pay for someone's training, and count the days till the person they trained "runs off" with all their clients and opens a stand alone practice because a trained practitioner *CAN* buy all that is needed on credit or out of the funds they earn working for the doctor. LASER techs don't have the credit nor the money for purchase of a LASER, and furthermore, the law states that a Doctor must have some accontability for each one out there. On top of that, there are lots of LASER ads out there advertising the idea of LASER service. There is nothing in the mass media making Electrolysis "hip" in the minds of the general public.

Many men would have lots of hair removed if they could find anyone skilled and fast enough to do it. This is a man's problem, but that still leaves many men hearing "I don't treat men! <Click!>" when they call around looking for someone to do their faces, backs, chests, and other areas.
_________________________
http://www.executiveclearance.com/beforeandafter.html
Setting a goal is not the main thing. It is deciding how you will go about achieving it and staying with that plan. --- Tom Landry
Has this site helped you? Pay it forward. Donate to keep HairTell & Hairfacts Online at http://www.hairfacts.com/feedback/support-this-site/

Top
#33480 - 06/12/06 10:38 PM Re: Getting Started with Electrolysis
Arlene R. Batz, CPE Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/14/05
Posts: 1162
Loc: New York City - Queens
Dear James,

You wrote:
Quote:

As for the Junior College thing, we have been trying to get that done for years, but we have an image problem. JC's don't think Electrolysis Training is Glamorous enough to have on their campus. They will do Dental Hygienist courses to death, but they think that an Electrology course would "cheapen their image". We even had a course with nearly 30 paid students canceled prior to graduating the group who expected to get a two year course because the incoming college administration was horrified to find such an embarrassing major in the course listings. That same year, they continued a Dental Hygienist Major that had 7 participants.




I was wondering if you could confirm if this is what happened at Union County recently or elsewhere.

Thank you.
_________________________
Arlene Batz, CPE: Educator, Board Certified Electrologist, NYS Licensed Esthetician.
http://endunwantedhair.com

Top
#33481 - 06/13/06 03:14 AM Re: Getting Started with Electrolysis
James W. Walker VII Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 8055
Loc: Buffalo NY, & Traveling the US...
I have asked someone who was on the inside on that situation to call you. It is up to that person to tell you, or not tell you.
_________________________
http://www.executiveclearance.com/beforeandafter.html
Setting a goal is not the main thing. It is deciding how you will go about achieving it and staying with that plan. --- Tom Landry
Has this site helped you? Pay it forward. Donate to keep HairTell & Hairfacts Online at http://www.hairfacts.com/feedback/support-this-site/

Top
#33482 - 06/13/06 08:41 PM Re: Getting Started with Electrolysis
Arlene R. Batz, CPE Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/14/05
Posts: 1162
Loc: New York City - Queens
Oh, why would you mention it at all and not want to mention the name of the school? Why would it be up to "that person" to tell me?

If a school is taking such a stand against electrolysis then wouldn't it be a good thing to advertise this, that a school is exhibiting an act of discrimination.

In any event, if it is indeed Union in NJ, as I suspect, then the NJ people should be informed and perhaps take some action. Afterall, if it is indeed the community college in NJ, and there really were that many students who wanted to take the program but were unable to because of a school's perception of a problem that is often the result of a metabolic disorder, then this is a political issue as the school is partially funded by the taxpayers.

People like me take action. We support what we believe in. We write letters to politicans. We demonstrate. I am not alone.

Thanks anyway
_________________________
Arlene Batz, CPE: Educator, Board Certified Electrologist, NYS Licensed Esthetician.
http://endunwantedhair.com

Top
#33483 - 06/14/06 01:16 AM Re: Getting Started with Electrolysis
James W. Walker VII Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 8055
Loc: Buffalo NY, & Traveling the US...
Quote:

Oh, why would you mention it at all and not want to mention the name of the school? Why would it be up to "that person" to tell me?





Because they are not alone. I was pointing out just how far reaching this attitude goes. There are many more Junior Colleges that have turned down the idea out of hand and flatly refused to even give it a try than have started one and dumped it. I personally went to JC's in my area, and even two places that did job training in conjunction with colleges in my area, and even though money was available for such a program, no one wanted to host it.

Sure we can condem one place here or there, but the real problem is larger than that.
_________________________
http://www.executiveclearance.com/beforeandafter.html
Setting a goal is not the main thing. It is deciding how you will go about achieving it and staying with that plan. --- Tom Landry
Has this site helped you? Pay it forward. Donate to keep HairTell & Hairfacts Online at http://www.hairfacts.com/feedback/support-this-site/

Top
#33484 - 06/14/06 11:58 AM Re: Getting Started with Electrolysis
Arlene R. Batz, CPE Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/14/05
Posts: 1162
Loc: New York City - Queens
Hmmm, let's see.
A market need.
A whole in the market.
Seems like a good opportunity for some entrepeneur.
Is it necessary for a JC to offer the curriculum?
A private trade school unacceptable in NJ?
There are certainly enough esthetic schools throughout NJ. I actually spoke with an administrative decision maker at Christine Valmy about 2 years ago, about developing an electrology curriculum. Their main office is in NJ.
The idea was blown off and I was told that they have a laser, are teaching about laser but were not actually doing hands on, just observation and theory. I was told that they didn't feel like devoting space for an electrology course.

It is a shame that one would not shout out the names of the schools that reject the curriculum.

As a person who's life has been dramatically affected by PCOS, it becomes very personal. At least those who want the course can come to NYC and take it - pending approval.

Top
#33485 - 06/14/06 04:13 PM Re: Getting Started with Electrolysis
James W. Walker VII Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 8055
Loc: Buffalo NY, & Traveling the US...
So once again, it is really up to consumer education to drive the market forces, as no one will want to invest in training electrologists until they see people turning down LASER, Waxing, and Threading and demanding the Gold Standard

Oh, and by the way,
Quote:

I will use the word LOSE and LOOSE in a sentence to help distinguish the difference:

First example: As a LOOSE maiden, she is likely to LOSE her virginity before she weds.
...A market need. A whole in the market.




I will use the words WHOLE and HOLE in a sentence to help distinguish the difference:

When someone makes an issue out of a typographical HOLE in someone's fast typing, they miss out on the point that most people understood the WHOLE truth of what the person was meaning to say.

Don't think that I don't believe it is a personal issue. I know what it is like trying to find someone who can take care of the problem, and finding that services are very limited or not available in one's area. The more consumers who read enough to get past the Televised hype, the better off we will all be. It is not like we can accept this situation in the way we accept the fact that modern appliances are made to fail in 3 to 5 years, due to the fact that the options in newer appliances changes so radically in 3 to 5 years, everyone wants an excuse to buy a new one anyway.

No one will march on washington for iron to re-replace aluminum parts in say, washer dryers. Now if people would make their desire known for real results for permanent hair removal known with more than their willingness to spend $19.99 plus shipping and handling for every quack device that gets shown on late night TV, we might have something going on here.
_________________________
http://www.executiveclearance.com/beforeandafter.html
Setting a goal is not the main thing. It is deciding how you will go about achieving it and staying with that plan. --- Tom Landry
Has this site helped you? Pay it forward. Donate to keep HairTell & Hairfacts Online at http://www.hairfacts.com/feedback/support-this-site/

Top
#33486 - 06/15/06 03:33 AM Re: Getting Started with Electrolysis
Mantaray Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 711
Loc: San Diego, California
First of all, thanks to all the pros. We're lucky to have you.

Anyway, Dee, I did read up on the campaign that electrolysis.com is launching. I think it's good that they have the internet option. More of interest was the institution links that list the curriculum topics. Although I live in California, it's tempting to give my sister's Texas address to qualify for online education. $5,000 or so is not a whole lot for gaining the ability to have an additional pro-level skill. I'm really fascinated by the simplicity of electrolysis and the way one can get absorbed in jumping from follical to follical and being able to tune out and relax. I feel for the bigger machine manufacturers that have put time into making state of the art machines, just to face such a user-drought. They should require you guys to buy a machine each year just to keep them in business No wonder Hinkle and Fischer merged. It's just survival. I did go over to Prestigeelectrolysis.com but I guess the site is undergoing something. I'll try back later. And, yes, I need to get some #2's myself.

Arlene, thanks for the loupe pointer. I hadn't purchased loupes yet, and did get some B&L 1.8, 2.2,2.6's. Can't they be increased by wearing 1x or 2x eyeglasses with them in conjunction? If those don't give me a good working distance then I'll scout a pair like my electrologist. She has this real light-weight skinny frame type that has a flip-upable lensmounted to just one stick coming out. I like those, she works about ten inches away. I like the surgical type that has the little individual refractor lenses for each eye. Anyone use those? Nice, but at $189 they'll have to wait.

James, thanks for the tip on the book, that saves me money so I can buy more Neosporin, and that's a great supply resource because there's nothing that I know of on ebay or driveable around here. I plan on putting in an order within the next few days with them. I want to get started on that book. I need the book, the encyclopedia, and some fresh expired stock #2's and #3's. I recieved samples of gold Ballet needles (F3G's) along with the standard F3's. I'm wondering if those give a better delivery, gold being a good conductor, and easier insertion?. My electrologist uses standard silver, but then again she doesn't have any good magazines in her waiting area. I got a better swingarm lamp (center halogen/ with a circular flouresent, ...no, no magnifying glass, thank you) and it's way better than the cheap Ikea lamp I was using. I found the FX bulb too, but am going with a type A 100 watt Halogen for now. Comfort, it doesn't get as hot.

Yesterday I set everything up, sanitized everything, got it all ready to go. Now I find there's a lot of minor points I need to address; which handle size is best, big or small? Do I have hair roots that curl? Doing cataphoresis, depth guaging, using a slightly bent needle, etc. Just lots of minor points I want to get resolved by reading the Bono book, nagging my electrologist, and looking in the forum archives. Actually not so minor as these are things i need to know down pat. I'm still at least a month away from any kind of attempt. And won't do so until I can do a few insertions with my electrologist monitoring Anyway, thanks to all who contribute, with wisdom and money!

Mantaray


Edited by Mantaray (06/15/06 03:43 AM)
_________________________
Mantaray

Electrolysis, since 1875

Top
#33487 - 06/15/06 12:36 PM Re: Getting Started with Electrolysis
James W. Walker VII Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 8055
Loc: Buffalo NY, & Traveling the US...
Thank YOU for making such detailed posts. Perhaps some people will read these and get the idea that they have to rethink their position that electrolysis is something that a well trained Circus Chimp could perform.
_________________________
http://www.executiveclearance.com/beforeandafter.html
Setting a goal is not the main thing. It is deciding how you will go about achieving it and staying with that plan. --- Tom Landry
Has this site helped you? Pay it forward. Donate to keep HairTell & Hairfacts Online at http://www.hairfacts.com/feedback/support-this-site/

Top
#33488 - 06/16/06 06:05 AM Re: Getting Started with Electrolysis
NoHair Offline
Top Ten Contributor

Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 276
And if those same people do enough research, they'll also discover that not everyone needs to be so particular as Mantaray to do successful DIY electrolysis.

With no training, $2 reading glasses, a florescent desk lamp, decent tweezers, and a One Touch or upgraded home built unit ( http://www.geocities.com/hairfreethere/ ), I was able to remove all my pubic hair and under arm hair.

I find it amazing that it is possible for people to rid themselves of hair so simply. DIY can be tedious, but rewarding and affordable for those that can't spend the time and money to go to a pro.

I don't think Chimps can do it, but many people can do DIY without extreme measures. Yes, there are many that don't have the patience, eyesight, and steady hands to DIY, but I bet there's many that can once they're done enough research and enough practice. Those with special health problems are another matter entirely.

It never hurts to be cautious and learn all you can. But in my first month of not waiting, I already had made good progress in establishing that DIY (Galvanic) wasn't all that tricky and I was well into getting clearance and satisfaction. Maybe I was in a circus in a past life.

Top
#33489 - 06/17/06 02:07 AM Re: Getting Started with Electrolysis
Mantaray Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 711
Loc: San Diego, California
James, www.texaselectrolysissupply.com (TES) had the new edition of Bono, 'Real World Electrolysis: The Blend Method' for $36 dollars. I got that, and a copy of the old standard Hinkle book 'Electrolysis, Thermolysis, and the Blend' and some other things good to have around. The hinkle book is older, but I was browsing it while getting treated yesterday. I thought it had good, basic theory explanations. They get out orders quickly too. Just a good, no frills supplier. Thanks!

Arlene, I'm fast realizing the loupes are a huge factor. One can only treat what one can get a clear shot at. Focal distance is everything. It seems the stronger, the closer. Not good for the DIY'er. My electrologist just smirks and tells me to 'Just try and stay away from my good work.' I'm going to keep an eye out for something that can give me twelve to 18 inches of work distance at at least 1.8x. Unrealistic? Guess I better limber up, and that also might mean staying away from the big helpings of lasagna. Medical, jeweler, or technical, there just may be something out there I haven't seen yet. But I wil say, after I got the loupes today, I was completely into it and motivated.

Thanks All,

Mantaray
_________________________
Mantaray

Electrolysis, since 1875

Top
#33490 - 06/17/06 04:19 AM Re: Getting Started with Electrolysis
James W. Walker VII Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 8055
Loc: Buffalo NY, & Traveling the US...
Now you see why I use stereo binocular scopes. I have a minimum of 14 inches focal distance, and although my feild of vision is reduced to 2 square inches, every hair in that short space looks like the size of a pencil sticking out of a sheet of paper.
_________________________
http://www.executiveclearance.com/beforeandafter.html
Setting a goal is not the main thing. It is deciding how you will go about achieving it and staying with that plan. --- Tom Landry
Has this site helped you? Pay it forward. Donate to keep HairTell & Hairfacts Online at http://www.hairfacts.com/feedback/support-this-site/

Top
#33491 - 06/18/06 10:51 PM Re: Getting Started with Electrolysis
Mantaray Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 711
Loc: San Diego, California
With 16-21 inches of focal length to keep one's back healthy, deal me in. I had never even thought of getting those. My electrologist wants them too now. Mind sharing what you think are the best brands? There's a few, all competitively priced, from $200 to $300. Brands I'm considering:

Med-Lite (various types and titanium)
Eagle Optical
Leica
U.S. Micro-Surgical Optical

Thanks,
Mantaray
_________________________
Mantaray

Electrolysis, since 1875

Top
#33492 - 06/19/06 02:19 PM Re: Getting Started with Electrolysis
James W. Walker VII Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 8055
Loc: Buffalo NY, & Traveling the US...
I am not the best source on this point. I like Zeiss lenses, and although Zeiss sells its own brand name stuff, which is what I use, other companies purchase Zeiss lenses, and put them into their own visual aides.

Most companies will allow you to try them out, or have a generous returns policy, as they know you need to use the item to find out if it works for what you want to do with it.

I would call the places that sell them, or the companies themselves, and arrange an in home trial. Zeiss will send you loupes and multiple lenses with a Credit Card to secure the items, and you have 30 days to try them out, and send them back with no obligation. I think the only thing you pay is shipping charges, and if you find what you want, you just keep what you want, and return the things you don't.
_________________________
http://www.executiveclearance.com/beforeandafter.html
Setting a goal is not the main thing. It is deciding how you will go about achieving it and staying with that plan. --- Tom Landry
Has this site helped you? Pay it forward. Donate to keep HairTell & Hairfacts Online at http://www.hairfacts.com/feedback/support-this-site/

Top
#33493 - 06/21/06 11:36 AM Re: Getting Started with Electrolysis
sparx Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 02/15/06
Posts: 71
Quote:

Now you see why I use stereo binocular scopes. I have a minimum of 14 inches focal distance, and although my feild of vision is reduced to 2 square inches, every hair in that short space looks like the size of a pencil sticking out of a sheet of paper.




what make are they and model

do you have a link James

Top
#33494 - 06/21/06 02:06 PM Re: Getting Started with Electrolysis
James W. Walker VII Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 8055
Loc: Buffalo NY, & Traveling the US...
What I use is an actual surgical microscope set up like doctors and dentists use. Nothing the home user would find cost effective. The important thing is that you can get loupes from Zeiss or other companies that use Zeiss lenses, that have the good magnification, and one can even get fiber optic halogen lighting on the cheap if one trolls the used market. It is even possible that one could find a retiring practitioner who is looking to liquidate a full floor standing Zeiss Opmi 99 like I use or the Opmi Pico that is the current product Zeiss sells new in place of the Opmi 99. I never considered upgrading to the Pico, because the added feature and benefit it has over the Opmi 99 is that you can project or record your treatments as seen though the scope. I can see where this is a great thing for a doctor who may get sued for every procedure performed, but for an electrologist, it just poses more troublesome privacy issues... Ok, I lied, I did consider getting one until I thought about the troubling privacy issues.
_________________________
http://www.executiveclearance.com/beforeandafter.html
Setting a goal is not the main thing. It is deciding how you will go about achieving it and staying with that plan. --- Tom Landry
Has this site helped you? Pay it forward. Donate to keep HairTell & Hairfacts Online at http://www.hairfacts.com/feedback/support-this-site/

Top
#33495 - 06/22/06 02:50 AM Re: Getting Started with Electrolysis
Mantaray Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 711
Loc: San Diego, California
I'll tell you what, I'll get a coffee can. Cut a hole on the top, and that'll be my Zeiss Opmi floor standing unit fund:
Zeiss Opmi Magnifier
But for right now, I'm leaning towards these:
Med-lite Magnifiers
...the model 300 or 350 (3.0x or 3.5x, not sure which) with a focal length of 17 inches. It's a compromise of price/use/and quality, and having a larger aperture focal lens (the smaller lens closest to the eye). Thanks on the Zeiss lens info, and hopefully some of these vendors will answer back on what types of lenses. Unfortunately, it's a big black box. Nobody here in San Diego has a store where you can actually try them on, so the loaner/buyer thing is what I'll probably have to do. Thanks for the knowledge!

...I'm more interested in that Japanese technique you were mentioning. I think that's what my electrologist does.

Mantaray
_________________________
Mantaray

Electrolysis, since 1875

Top
#33496 - 06/22/06 01:32 PM Re: Getting Started with Electrolysis
James W. Walker VII Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 8055
Loc: Buffalo NY, & Traveling the US...
Looks like a winner to me.

Many electrologists use this type of system, and some even add a fiber optic to the headdress so that where ever they are looking, so is the light shinning.
_________________________
http://www.executiveclearance.com/beforeandafter.html
Setting a goal is not the main thing. It is deciding how you will go about achieving it and staying with that plan. --- Tom Landry
Has this site helped you? Pay it forward. Donate to keep HairTell & Hairfacts Online at http://www.hairfacts.com/feedback/support-this-site/

Top
#33497 - 06/25/06 01:10 AM Re: Getting Started with Electrolysis
Mantaray Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 711
Loc: San Diego, California
...And I want to say thanks for that feedback, it's those I'll use then. I also want to say thanks on the Bono book, I got it today in the mail from TES and I'm already half-finished reading it (and will probably be done tonight, I'm glued to it). I'm really glad I held off on anything before getting to digest the book's valuable information. His detail, images, explanations, and order of introducing topics is a huge benefit to anyone that does not have formal training. Me, I've had the Physiology, Histology, and Endocrinology, but found his compilation of everything relevant into 185 pages nicely done. The AR Hinkle book has good basic hair theory and makes a good referential companion to Bono's illustrative explanative style. Thanks!

Mantaray

Remember guys: Bono's 2005 edition of 'The Blend Method' for $36 bucks at www.texaselectrolysissupply.com
_________________________
Mantaray

Electrolysis, since 1875

Top
#33498 - 07/06/06 03:21 AM Re: Getting Started with Electrolysis
Mantaray Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 711
Loc: San Diego, California
Okay, I can get into this. I'm now at five d.i.y. sessions. It kinda went like this;

Before any insertions, I practiced seeing depth effects with eggwhite and salt water. Better to go too deep than too shallow. Take some eggwhite in a metal handled tablespoon, crank up the HF. See how a shallow insertion will concentrate all the energy at the needle's tip, causing a much more concentrated coagulation of eggwhite ...not good. Sink it deeper, see how it gives you a uniform teardrop around the needle ...much better. Experiment to see how grounding helps stabilize HF. Do it not grabbing the spoon, then grabbing the spoon tight. Check to see how your machine will overcompensate if momentarily pulled from the eggwhite.

Take a cup of water, stir in two teaspoons of table salt. Sink most of the patient ground hanle in, sink the insertion portion of the needle, run the max 1.5 milliAmps or so. You get bubbles, chlorine gas, from the formation of NaOH from the electrolytic energy. These tests are from the Bono book. He also gives pointers on testing out equipment to check for good operation.

First session. ...A good insertion can hardly even be felt. I concentrated so hard to get good insertions with galvanic only that I frequently forgot to have the patient ground in contact. after twenty minutes it is clear that galvanic just takes a really long time. A one hour session. I didn't really clear much, just maybe two or three square inches. It took me awhile to just get set up and double check that everything was germ free.

Second session. I came to this conclusion; It's better to spend a few more seconds to get the insertion good, then try using blend, than to go with quicker insertions and sit there with galvanic for a solid minute. I tried using low levels of blend. Blend gives much more immediate feedback in perfecting insertions. If it's bad, the hair just won't come out good. Ifit's good, you get the fatty sheath paydirt. I found it much easier to improve with the lowered DC and mild AC. Basically this session was all about depth guaging, getting both angles good, getting down the progressive method. One hour.

Third session. Blend. More progressive blend. I was finding that most hairs came out at the ten-second mark. Then towards the end of the session, the six to eight second mark. It was a non-stop judging of seeing how high I should have the DC so as not to interfere with the AC. I also was thinking. This is painful, but somehow, When doing it to myself, less painful than when the pro treats me. But a lot less productive. One hour and ten minutes.

Fourth session. Okay. Time to see what sequential blend can do. Answer: it can do a h**l of a lot, with not near as much pain. I experimented with the programs and levels, tested my threshold, wrapped the patient ground to my leg with velcro, and got on the freeway. The sequential blend method is much less painful in that it is much more predictable of when you're going to get a dose of which current. Also, I like the idea of the currents not fighting each other, and each getting a chance to take the stage. Six seconds a hair, and 90% just slide out, others repeat. I can concentrate more on the rhythym, the next shot, and keeping the needle steady. At this point I'm realizing the value of a good lamp that you can reposition quickly without it drooping. I thought my lamp was good. It's not. Great light at 100 watts Halogen/ 22 watt circline flourescent. But it can't be moved quickly with no hassle. Also, the single lens seven-inch working distance loupes have to go. The extra 10 to 14 inches is worth the extra $210 dollars. Because they will repay themselves in three smooth sessions. Towards the end of this session Hour and a half session I was feeling like I finally got some return on all my efforts and equipment. I also found it easier to go past the hour mark without going crosseyed.

Fifth session. About half the speed of my electrologist, with higher sequential power. I got comfortable with insertion depth as I wasn't so afraid to go slightly shallower, and the reward is immediate. This is true Pavlov Condition. Good insertion, no pain. How much more elemental can reinforced learning get? I'm still staying with the pedal, and will probably be with it for awhile. I can't imagine using auto-sense at this point the way it takes me a couple of tries about every third hair. This felt like a truly productive session. With a session like this every day on a different target area, things will go fine. But it's amazing how there is more less visible hairs in an area that I feel guilty skipping over. I ordered a couple more handsets from Silhouet Tone so I can use the dual needle ports readily with a number two and number three loaded so I can re-sweep the area for the fine hairs. Truth is, it seems easier to get the big needles in the fine hairs, and the fine needles in the big hairs. This session was a practice in burning to anagen depth. It hurts a bit, but you may only need to feel it once. Session lasted an hour and a half. Then I just need to force myself to pack it up. No, don't worry, I don't plan on posting every scrupulous detail of every session, but just excited to get up and running. That's all for now.

Mantaray
_________________________
Mantaray

Electrolysis, since 1875

Top
#33499 - 07/06/06 02:50 PM Re: Getting Started with Electrolysis
James W. Walker VII Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 8055
Loc: Buffalo NY, & Traveling the US...
Excellent work Mantary.

Good schools and apprentice programs make students learn depth by working on their own legs, as it is a possible insertion, and, as you said, you get quick feedback on your insertion skills. You know both what the practitioner feels on a good and bad insertion, and you know what the client feels on a good and bad insertion. If that is not motivation to get it right, I don't know what would be.

You have also seen why the light source and both the magnification and working distance of the visual aide is important. This really can't be done with a candle and a monicle from the crackerjack box. One really has to spend some money on equipment to get the results wanted.

You also stumbled upon a trade secret, with better visualization, you can fit larger probes in small follicles, gaining more surface contact area, and reducing the open area inside the follicle that needs treatment energy. (Psst, that means lower treatment energy can be used, but keep that under your hat.)
_________________________
http://www.executiveclearance.com/beforeandafter.html
Setting a goal is not the main thing. It is deciding how you will go about achieving it and staying with that plan. --- Tom Landry
Has this site helped you? Pay it forward. Donate to keep HairTell & Hairfacts Online at http://www.hairfacts.com/feedback/support-this-site/

Top
#33500 - 07/15/06 01:37 AM Re: Getting Started with Electrolysis
Mantaray Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 711
Loc: San Diego, California
Thanks for those good words James, and all your postings in the other forums. To everyone that posts, thanks.

Just an update to those interested; it's definitely a learning process that takes place on many fronts. Depth, settings, how to position light, and how to stay patient so it doesn't turn into a pluck session... But the single most thing I work on now is the whole hand motion leading up to insertion. It seems like when I hold still and slowly approach the follical, the insertion doesn't go as smooth. But, when one starts to develop a stylized smooth approach while focusing more on the follical than the needle, the pore is just targeted so much better. Kind of like baseball; watch the ball, practice your swing.

And whoa! Good visibility makes a huge difference. I got my 3.5x binocular loupes today. It's like night and day. For a couple hundred, these ( Med-Lite Loupes, or something similar )will save eyestrain, and posture bigtime over the months or years. Just an whole different image to work with. No guesswork, insertions are positive and certain, ingrowns easy to hit under the skin, over-treatment more preventable, and everything just makes more sense because it's so clear, and god bless that longer focal length (Thanks Arlene!) Anyone doing this to themselves, or others, should know that it's wise to calculate in the cost of good loupes when you consider equipment. Some have pulled it off with basic magnifying glasses. Hats off to them. But these clean up insertions, vastly increase speed, and make the whole process a lot smoother.

Mantaray
_________________________
Mantaray

Electrolysis, since 1875

Top
#33501 - 07/16/06 11:17 AM Re: Getting Started with Electrolysis
seren Offline


Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 11
very informative thread.

my one and only experience with electrolysis did suggest that despite the fact someone is probing your skin with a forgeing object that it is entirely possible ( in this country at least ) to set yourself up as an electrolygist when trained chimps might prove more successfull.

investigations highlighted that the registered salon i went to was owned and managed by someone who has an accreditation from some kind of electrolysist society , but she does not actually perform any treatments herself at all.

so its purely a gimmik.

the girl ( because she definately was just that.v early twenties at most ) had no idea about anything involving current methods,technology,possible aftercare.

no idea of who she may be treating,what the reason for it was, or anything else.

she also didnt use any form of magnification when she performed the 2 test insertions on me.

i find it hard to believe this is a one off.and i also heard quite recently that one of the beauty schools hereabots is offereing electrolysis treatments at a greatly reduced rate for students of the college can practise on people.

it appears to me that the attitude is to sell it as very much a DIY experience anyway.offering these treatments and having people perform them who dont sem to take the proceedure half as seriously as they should given whats involved only devalues it full stop.

what would reassure me would be an informed medical approach.the fact that its included in the repertoire of so many beauty salons along with spray tanning and hair styling is wrong.

by doing this you simply associate yourself with a profession that devotes itself to the superficial side of the body.

i dont regard it as minor a thing as getting my hair cut and quite rightly too.

but by the same token im not convinced it is a skill beyond the mastering of anyone who has the motivation to figure it out.

there are too many stupid gadgets on the market , that is quite right.

some years back i bought a contraption which claimed to be a non invasive form of electrolysis.no needles.an adhesive type of pad which covered an area of the skin which you hooked up to a battery powered unit and then zapped yourself with.

results- lighter in the wallet, annoyed with myself fr buying what amounted to a compact instrument of torture and nothing more.

i do take on board the need for magnification.and what i think comes across loud and clear is that its not as simple as you might first believe.

but if trained chimps are freely practising this up and down the UK , earning money for theri efforts common sense also suggests that either they are to some degree successfully performing the proceedures ( and thus clearly it is not beyond the reach of any other person who decides to try to learn the techniques) or people have more money than sense.

i can believe that people are disuaded from taking it up on themselves because they can be discouraged by not seeing results as quickly as they might want or feel they should.

some people prefer the reassurance of paying for something because they do believe that because they have paid for something it guarantees they are getting soething better than they would be able to do on themselves.

but id be willing to wager that if 100 willing,motivated people took up the challenge to learn how to perform electrolysis on themselves successfully, and applied themselves to it keeping up with the necessary regrowth treatments at all times, that more would come back capable than wouldnt.

patience,tenacity,confidence.

and support from your peers.

i will be trying this myself.

Top
#33502 - 07/16/06 11:51 AM Re: Getting Started with Electrolysis
James W. Walker VII Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 8055
Loc: Buffalo NY, & Traveling the US...
Thanks for your input.

You remind me of a party where a woman very loudly complemented a concert pianist by saying that she would do anything to be able to play like her, and the annoyed pianist looked the mature woman in the eye and said, "No you wouldn't." to which the irritated complementer strongly insisted that she would, and took up a back and forth "No you wouldn't. Yes I would" argument and when she angrily accused "How can you stand here and try to tell me how I feel? Of course I know how I feel better than you!" The pianist finally said, "You are old enough to be 5 times better than me, had you only taken the time to do so, yet you say that you would do ANYTHING to be as good as me, when all it took was 5 years worth of diligent practice. Since you have reached the age you have, whatever that is, and you still can't play the piano, I am confident that you are not being truthful when you say that you would do ANYTHING to play like me!" and with that the argument ended.

Although it is correct that anyone who puts in the diligence of effort can learn to do excellent electrolysis, it is incorrect to think that chimps could be trained to do anything approaching competent work. This is equally true of concert piano and brain surgery. (although I seem to recall a chimp playing Heart and Soul on stage once)

The biggest problem of this profession and consumers of this service is the fact that one can't throw a dart at a list of service providers and rest easy that one will get great work. There is no substitute for getting sample treatments from as many providers as one can find before settling on who you will entrust your skin to. Even then, we have service providers who choose not to work on certain clients, or on certain areas, thus leading the consumer back to needing to find a buddy, get some equipment and education, and the two of them trade work on each other.

I ask you to consider the fact that there are service providers who have been doing this for many years, and yet still don't do it very well. I think that should tell you something about the home user's potential for self mutilation. One really should at the very least look for a buddy, and, after obtaining as much education as possible, work on each other in order to achieve the best results possible, given the situation.
_________________________
http://www.executiveclearance.com/beforeandafter.html
Setting a goal is not the main thing. It is deciding how you will go about achieving it and staying with that plan. --- Tom Landry
Has this site helped you? Pay it forward. Donate to keep HairTell & Hairfacts Online at http://www.hairfacts.com/feedback/support-this-site/

Top
#33503 - 07/16/06 11:25 PM Re: Getting Started with Electrolysis
Mantaray Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 711
Loc: San Diego, California
Seren,
I see what you're saying about salons operating under an Electrologist's license, only to have someone carrying out the actual proceedures not capable at all. To me, that's down right dangerous. Thank god California doesn't allow that. I agree that it has to become more aligned with the medical field, and less with the beauty shop field. From what I know now, it's a clinical proceedure that deserves this standing. Also, if it gained more clinical status, then that would help regulating some of the faulty practices that exist out there like you mentioned. The AEA also has to press for making their definitions more exclusive. As James, or somebody, has mentioned, the term 'electrolysis' has been put on the street corner to be vastly, and widely abused by a myriad of contraptions that just want to steal money from the pockets of desperate consumers. The AEA needs to press for defining that term cleared, to include the words 'needle', 'currents', 'controlled conditions', 'certified', 'regulated', 'proven permanence', and all others that would weed out the scams.

You mention that you have purchased a device that you found to be worthless, and that you want to maybe try this. Whatever you have your mind set on, if you go about it properly, I think you will have some success.

But, me, personally, I agree with James. It's really something that will be a whole lot more effective if a pro does it, or a well trained co-partner does it for you. Because, to really get good it takes a lot of reading, practice, equipment, conditions, time, and advice. Me personally, I've already read five books cover to cover and spent a couple thousand. That, at the going rate of twelve sessions for $660 would have purchased quite a few pro sessions! And I've done all this in conjuction with still seeing my pro electrologist an hour a week. And I know that I will have to continue these visits to get good, even clearing.

But I enjoy doing all this. I'm doing this because I'm fascinated by the use of electricity to effectively destroy follicals. I have formal medical training, and a good electrologist to mentor my progress. I want to learn this, and my own electrologist has given me ongoing lessons and advices, dealing with patients, practice setup, hours to best to work and schedule, how to approximate times for areas, etc. It's like a hobby to me and I secretly hope I'll never run out of hair to remove on myself, becuase then I'll have to go scout the streets for hairy volunteers, or dig up bodies from the cemetary to conduct my own hair removal practices. I'm joking here, really.

Anyway, anyone thinking of going this alone should wisely, and plainly consider that the equipment expenditure is needed, it's not really optional. They still will only be able to clear certain, plainly visible areas, they risk skin damage, they risk infection if not careful, and they need to keep their equipment funtioning properly just as a pro would (an AC intermittant short/over-compensation from a faulty cable is a terrible thing to even see in eggwhite! Yikes!). I would consider that the knowledge passed on by the experienced here on this board is to be taken wisely. I have read every single post, yes, every single post in the DIY forum, and I would recommend doing so. I would recommend doing all the necessary reading before even making the investment in a machine. Because then, you'll see what's required of a machine. I would add up all the money you'll need to spend, then ask if an electrologist would not get the job done for you if you were to use that towards treatments. Remember, the beginner accomplishes just a fraction of what a pro can do *permanently* in an hour. And a pro good at Flash will just run circles around almost any self-treater, no contest. If you consider all this. Then move forward.

Know that the reason why all these good people almost never recommend self-treating, is because 99% of the people just have no idea what they're getting into, and that these pro machines can put out a lot of power. The level of frustration in self-treating is exceedingly high. And the more one tries to save on equipment costs only adds to that frustration. But I think the things you say are very true, and I think you do see the bigger picture.

Thanks for your comments both James and Seren.

Mantaray
_________________________
Mantaray

Electrolysis, since 1875

Top
#33504 - 07/17/06 04:22 PM Re: Getting Started with Electrolysis
seren Offline


Registered: 05/17/06
Posts: 11
i would sincerely like to believe and have faith in the accreditation and qualification process which presumably exists in order to ensure when somone applies themselves and attends college and so forth to become a parctising electroygist they simply do just that.

and its as simple as that.all you do is simply go through youre local directory look up electrolysis and take your pick in complete confidence because becoming qualified to practisi electrolysis means you are competant.

firstly let me say i have the utmost respect for anyone who successfully practises this.and by successfully practises i mean best practise in all areas including before treatment,during treatment,after treatment with each individual client

if id simply wanted to find someone who could zap me with a small pribe inserted into a hair folicle i might have stuck with the first one i came to.but i wanted to know i was paying for treatment that was wirth paying for and to me that means someone who actually has a vague understanding of the variety of clients who wil come to them,some clues on possible side effects and treatments to minimise reactions and so on.

from reading the many posts in the professional electrolysis sub categroy there clearly are a number of poorly informed electrolygigsts out there practising quite freely.also a number who cause accute distress,pain and anxiety to people who pay money to them in order for them to actual remove the cause of their distress to begin with.

im not understanding how it is possible to practise when there is such a huge discrepancy in treatment.

practitioners who use second rate equipment,wrong settings,mislead clients and so on.

there is a massive amount of confusion and misinformation in the UK and i suspect elsewher about hair removal treatments.

last evening i looked up a local lazer practioner who purported to achieve " permanent results" in 1 treatment.read the samll print and what it actualy says is we will do so, but you will need to return for several treatments after that to kill hair which is growong but yet to show above the skin.

this was using an IPL laser.lots of hi tech graphics, crisply marketed.we sell to thousands of practitionewrs across the world,latest advanced technology and wholely unecessary jargon and terminology thrown at you to convince you to part with youre money.

however i read that IPl lasers are not actually the most likely to be successfull in treating hair.

but they dont say that.

and its not provided anywhere what so ever in any context anywhere ( aside from this forum ) that this is actually the case.

by not being up front and clear.honest and factual it is no wonder there is a sense of panic from many clients.because they are scared and unsure.so many treatments,so many gadgets prmising this that and the other.so many technical terms and variants that a layman has no chance of taking in and grasping without first studying the subject themselves ....it can be devastating to pin your hopes on something which promises plenty,enough for you to decide to pay for it from your hard earned money, then find its something like the emperors new clothes.

how is it possible to have a practising electrolysgist who doesnt do the job properly?why do people continue to practise when they are responsible for not doing what they said they would, damaging a clients body,performing the treatment on inappropriate settings which result in nothing much happening at all.

when there are instances of these kind happening,people will trun to anything at all grasping at straws because they do not trust.

id happily pay for something i felt was worth it.i wont pay for something which isnt.when i hear of people having poor experiences at the hands of many different electrolygists im dismayed for the excellent practitioners.its unfortunate that bad practise exists.

but im more annoyed at the prospect of people putting faith in individuals to help them with something they want treating ( quite forgoten a symptom of a medical condition) and they get a raw deal for their cash.

as for myself- i believe my own energies are appropriately targeted.PCOS and the treatment of the underlying condition itself is where my own treatment begins.

tackle the cause,halt the progress.

halt the progress,tackle the damage.

so i have no problem at all with myself not finding myself currently highly informed with respect of electrolysis.

i had up to recently believed it was not necessary for me to do someone elses job for them.whats the point in having electrolygists if one finds they have to become an expert themselves in the process?

and as my own personal difficulties with regards to diagnosis and treatment for PCOS are quite well presented wihtin this forum under the appropriate header, the suggestion that im arguing the toss with someone when i what? should be sending that time learning the trade? is quite wrong.

to suggest i am in some way wasting my time from someone who has no knowledge what so ever of how i spend my time is inapropriate at best and arrogant at worst.

Top
#33505 - 07/17/06 11:38 PM Re: Getting Started with Electrolysis
James W. Walker VII Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 8055
Loc: Buffalo NY, & Traveling the US...
For some reason, most people go searching for a hair removal professional, and the first one they book an appiontment and actually see, is the one they stay with. They don't ever check to see what else is out there. Since that is the case, that is why ineffective methods and practitioners continue to make money.

There is a scam electrolysis process well known on this board that has been sold here in my area as Permanent in professional settings for as long as I can remember. One practitioner did it for ten years before retiring with all her money (minus what smart people sued her for in refunds) and another place still sells this scam in my city today for $100 per hour, in a beautiful Salon, with TV commericals, and a former Nurse administering the "treatments". They just pay what ever law suits they lose, and keep on scamming. Most people who don't get good results, just quit, they don't check out other providers.

As for the hope that certifications would mean you don't have to shop around, sorry, but that doesn't even work with Doctors.

Look at the bright side, you at least found this forum, and you know enough to get more than one consult and sample treatment. You also know that it is not normal to have a hair removed, and then be able to put a decorative stud through the place where the follicle used to be with the free bonus piercing with treatment. . (At least that is what 18 year old girls in my area would do with a hole that went straight through to the other side of the upper or lower lip.)
_________________________
http://www.executiveclearance.com/beforeandafter.html
Setting a goal is not the main thing. It is deciding how you will go about achieving it and staying with that plan. --- Tom Landry
Has this site helped you? Pay it forward. Donate to keep HairTell & Hairfacts Online at http://www.hairfacts.com/feedback/support-this-site/

Top
#33506 - 07/20/06 12:19 AM Re: Getting Started with Electrolysis
Mantaray Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 711
Loc: San Diego, California
About the first printing of Michael Bono's 'The Blend Method'.

...The first edition is really a great book. Why he shortened it by taking out so much great information is beyond me. I read the second printing, but now just got this first printing. It has all kinds of advice; loupes, clearing techniques, lots more on needles, after care, photos and graphics explaining healing. All this stuff is great. Was he trying to present the second printing as more solely supporting of blend? And not trying to encompass things that may change over time? But very little has really changed since it's publication in 1995.

If you can get this book, it's definitely a good buy. Don't think it's just slightly different than the new version, it has a lot more in it. He talks about setting up a good working area, best furniture, lamps, tweeezers, types of magnification, disease exposure, pain management, how shaving figures in, hyperpigmentation. What great knowledge!! The only thing he added in with the new book after taking all this great stuff out was a chapter on computer assisted machines, which he generally doesn't think much of, and couldn't really expand on due to not getting any info from the companies apparently. I think he started out really wanting to do a great update but then threw in the towel. There's just too much of a difference in thoroughness. Shame. I hope he rethinks his position and re-issues this first, original, 368 page version. It's such a treasure of knowledge to the electrolysis community.

Mantaray
_________________________
Mantaray

Electrolysis, since 1875

Top
#33507 - 07/20/06 02:57 AM Re: Getting Started with Electrolysis
James W. Walker VII Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 8055
Loc: Buffalo NY, & Traveling the US...
I agree with you totally, and I have had this very argument with the man himself. (Friends are allowed to disagree, and he and I do it hilariously)

It is all market forces again, most people seem to gravitate to the cheaper books, because, after all, aren't they all electrolysis texts? Won't they all have the same information? Um, no, all electrolysis books are not created equal. The cost of redoing that book at today's prices were not good from the point of view of his cost benefit analysis projections, based on previous sales. I suggested he convert the book to digital, and he pointed out that would make it more easy to steal and he has enough people photocopying the book instead of buying it from him or an authorized outlet.

I still recommend reading as many as one can get one's hands on. I also say that if you can only do one book, the first edition "Real World Electrolysis/Electrology, The Blend Method" by Mike Bono is the best for going from no knowledge to good work, even if you have no hands on teacher to work with you.
_________________________
http://www.executiveclearance.com/beforeandafter.html
Setting a goal is not the main thing. It is deciding how you will go about achieving it and staying with that plan. --- Tom Landry
Has this site helped you? Pay it forward. Donate to keep HairTell & Hairfacts Online at http://www.hairfacts.com/feedback/support-this-site/

Top
#33508 - 07/20/06 12:44 PM Re: Getting Started with Electrolysis
Arlene R. Batz, CPE Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/14/05
Posts: 1162
Loc: New York City - Queens
I agree; I love the first edition of the Bono book.

If I owned my own school, that would be my book of
choice and I am primarily a thermologist!

I told eastcoasters what a wonderful book it is but the title kept them from buying it. I told them not to judge a book by its title. I feel that the title of the book was a poor marketing choice.

For the next reprints, I kinda like the following title for the Bono book: ELECTROLYSIS IN A SCHUSTER LIGHT.
And I kinda like the following title for the next reprint of the Fino book: MODERN ELECTROLOGY USING OLD EQUIPMENT

Top
#33509 - 07/20/06 01:18 PM Re: Getting Started with Electrolysis
James W. Walker VII Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 8055
Loc: Buffalo NY, & Traveling the US...
And the beat goes on...
And the beat goes on...

Oh, that's his late brother.
_________________________
http://www.executiveclearance.com/beforeandafter.html
Setting a goal is not the main thing. It is deciding how you will go about achieving it and staying with that plan. --- Tom Landry
Has this site helped you? Pay it forward. Donate to keep HairTell & Hairfacts Online at http://www.hairfacts.com/feedback/support-this-site/

Top
#33510 - 07/20/06 10:57 PM Re: Getting Started with Electrolysis
dfahey Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 9670
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
Okay, I'll bite.

I've read posts from clients of Fino (meaning his kids,too), that Fino is very fast and Fino is very deadly (when it comes to permanent hair removal). In other words he and his kids offer great electrolysis treatments. But Arlene, since you kind of live near Fino maybe you know how to answer my very curious question: What does the client's skin look like after treatment and beyond?

I have not seen that information in print before on hairtell. Do you happen to know anything about the skin and how it heals after his treatments?

Fino and his kids sound amazing and I have been meaning to purchase his book 'Modern Electrology' and will put that on my to-do list.

Thanks,

Dee
_________________________
Dee Fahey, R.N., C.T.
Licensed by the State Medical Board of Ohio for Nursing license and Cosmetic Therapy/Electrolysis license
_____________________
ELECTROLYSIS FAQ'S:

British Institute & Association of Electrolysis

http://www.electrolysis.co.uk/?page_id=16

Do not give up, the beginning is always the hardest.

Top
#33511 - 07/21/06 01:58 AM Re: Getting Started with Electrolysis
Mantaray Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 711
Loc: San Diego, California
'Oh, that's his late brother.'-
den es seester eenlaw name eschar?

Top
#33512 - 07/21/06 02:17 AM Re: Getting Started with Electrolysis
James W. Walker VII Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 8055
Loc: Buffalo NY, & Traveling the US...
Oui! Oui! Elle est Cher!
(sorry, I only speeka da French, but I lika de Italians too)
_________________________
http://www.executiveclearance.com/beforeandafter.html
Setting a goal is not the main thing. It is deciding how you will go about achieving it and staying with that plan. --- Tom Landry
Has this site helped you? Pay it forward. Donate to keep HairTell & Hairfacts Online at http://www.hairfacts.com/feedback/support-this-site/

Top
#33513 - 07/21/06 11:49 AM Re: Getting Started with Electrolysis
Arlene R. Batz, CPE Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/14/05
Posts: 1162
Loc: New York City - Queens
In response to df:

I don't live or work near them.
We have different markets.

You ask about skin condition. I am not able to give a fair response to that question since I didn't see the clients prior to treatment and have no idea if the client followed appropriate aftercare procedures.

HairTell readers who have gone to them have indicated that they were concerned about equipment as they saw knobs and didn't see the digital equipment described in some of the threads here. Their equipment concern was based on some of the posts you wrote, stressing the advantages of new equipment.

I tell people and have always maintained that good treatment has more to do with skill. Yes, the newer equipment gives us the ability to work in a way that minimizes tissue trauma but that has never been a major issue in my discussions.

I offer students and consumers the opportunity to learn and then, find electrologists who are conveniently located. I do not follow up to find out where they go or what they do.

Top
#33514 - 07/21/06 01:06 PM Re: Getting Started with Electrolysis
dfahey Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 9670
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
Thank you , Arlene.

I was interested to know about skin condition after treatment and thought you would have some knowledge about that particular. So, I guess the missing part of the equation, still, for me is: What does the skin look like afterwards?

I'm glad we agree on the equipment issue, even though it looks as though we don't at times. You are correct in pointing out that the newer tools minimize tissue trauma with a skilled electrologist.

Take care,

Dee
_________________________
Dee Fahey, R.N., C.T.
Licensed by the State Medical Board of Ohio for Nursing license and Cosmetic Therapy/Electrolysis license
_____________________
ELECTROLYSIS FAQ'S:

British Institute & Association of Electrolysis

http://www.electrolysis.co.uk/?page_id=16

Do not give up, the beginning is always the hardest.

Top
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 >

Moderator:  Andrea 
Sponsored Links
Recent Posts
Feeling Sad
by Fairygirl
47 minutes 26 seconds ago
Thinning Male Beard Question- NOT Complete Removal
by janaka
Yesterday at 04:08 AM
Hair Route Mag
by dfahey
05/26/18 10:20 PM
Electrolysis/Laser Feet, opinion - pic attached
by Josefa M. Reina
05/26/18 03:09 PM
What is better?? 10ms or 3ms and why??
by Iluv2zap
05/26/18 01:59 PM
Top Posters
LAgirl 9994
dfahey 9670
James W. Walker VII 8055
Andrea 4157
Michael Bono 3361
Who's Online
0 registered (), 89 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod