Subscribe & Support This Site!
consumer hair removal forum
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
Hop to:
#35838 - 09/09/06 03:54 AM My experience with Vaniqa
Khaleesi Offline


Registered: 09/08/06
Posts: 7
I've been very happy with Vaniqa. I think I have been on it about two years now, can't quite recall.
The background is that I have pcos. I was diagnosed at 15, I'm 29 now. I see a specialist and he's the one who prescribed vaniqa since I had unwanted hair on my face, mostly on the upper lip, sideburns, and chin area. I have pretty sensitive skin, so I was worried I wouldn't tolerate it well. However other than a mild burning for the first minute or so, I didn't have any trouble.
I did find that I didn't see a difference until I waxed all the hair and kept using the vaniqa - and it didn't grow back! I still use it to this day, and it's been effective at keeping nearly all the hair away, other than the occasional stray. I apply it twice a day.
The only potential complication is that occasionally it seems like I get odd little hairs in places that I didn't have them - such as the sides of my nose. But it is still a great improvement, and they aren't too bad.

Top
Sponsored Links
#35839 - 09/09/06 01:43 PM Re: My experience with Vaniqa
Arlene R. Batz, CPE Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/14/05
Posts: 1106
Loc: New York City - Queens
I see that you know that once you stop using the drug, the hair will return. Why would you want to take a drug twice a day if you can end your unwanted hair problems with electrolysis?

I see that the Vaniqa post was your first and only post here.

Top
#35840 - 09/09/06 05:03 PM Re: My experience with Vaniqa
dfahey Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 8675
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
Vaniqa is expensive. A skilled electrologist can "end all the tail chasing" and there would be no continuing expense for the rest of your life. You wouldn't have to be a slave to a routine that requires you to smear it on your face twice a day.
_________________________
Dee Fahey, R.N., C.T.
Licensed by the State Medical Board of Ohio for Nursing license and Cosmetic Therapy/Electrolysis license
_____________________
ELECTROLYSIS FAQ'S:

British Institute & Association of Electrolysis

http://www.electrolysis.co.uk/?page_id=16

Top
#35841 - 09/10/06 06:15 AM Re: My experience with Vaniqa
Khaleesi Offline


Registered: 09/08/06
Posts: 7
Quote:

I see that you know that once you stop using the drug, the hair will return. Why would you want to take a drug twice a day if you can end your unwanted hair problems with electrolysis?

I see that the Vaniqa post was your first and only post here.




Hi,
I'm new here, thanks for noticing.
I don't work for some drug company, if that's what you were implying, I'm just a normal person with pcos.

Vaniqa is not a drug, it's a topical cream. Trust me, I wish it was permanent, but when you have pcos you do what you can to avoid the embarassment of facial hair. Haven't done much research on electrolysis - I did some laser hair removal in the past. Electrolysis is not an option I'm pursuing at this time, although it's certainly something I'd consider in the future, thanks for the suggestion.

I thought the tone of your reply was quite unfriendly. Is this how new people are welcomed here? I am not suggesting that Vaniqa is a cure-all, or even the "best" solution, just sharing my experience after a couple of years of use. Not every solution is perfect for everyone, and that includes laser, vaniqa, and electrolysis.

Top
#35842 - 09/10/06 10:56 AM Re: My experience with Vaniqa
James W. Walker VII Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 7997
Loc: Buffalo NY, & Traveling the US...
Welcome to the forum. Feel free to post your experiences.

As for what seemed like a chilly reception... ever get the feeling you have walked into a conversation in progress and you just don't know how far, and deep the thing has gone before you got there, but you really think you need someone to bring you up to speed so you know what is going on? Well, that is what you have here.

Smile, and don't take it personally.
_________________________
Electrolysis World Heavyweight Champion James W. Walker VII http://www.executiveclearance.com/beforeandafter.html
Setting a goal is not the main thing. It is deciding how you will go about achieving it and staying with that plan. --- Tom Landry
Has this site helped you? Pay it forward. Donate to keep HairTell & Hairfacts Online at http://www.hairfacts.com/feedback/support-this-site/

Top
#35843 - 09/10/06 04:54 PM Re: My experience with Vaniqa
Khaleesi Offline


Registered: 09/08/06
Posts: 7
Thanks, James! I appreciate it

Top
#35844 - 09/11/06 12:22 AM Re: My experience with Vaniqa
James W. Walker VII Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 7997
Loc: Buffalo NY, & Traveling the US...
You are welcome. This is actually one of the most friendly places on the net. It just gets passionate some times.

I look forward to your continued participation.
_________________________
Electrolysis World Heavyweight Champion James W. Walker VII http://www.executiveclearance.com/beforeandafter.html
Setting a goal is not the main thing. It is deciding how you will go about achieving it and staying with that plan. --- Tom Landry
Has this site helped you? Pay it forward. Donate to keep HairTell & Hairfacts Online at http://www.hairfacts.com/feedback/support-this-site/

Top
#40903 - 04/03/07 05:34 AM Re: My experience with Vaniqa [Re: James W. Walker VII]
alli Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 11/05/06
Posts: 185
Loc: Willoughby, OH
has anyone had luck with Vaniqa used under the chin? I have some dark but mostly blonde long hairs under my chin that I pluck some of just to make sure most are flowing the same way and not sticking out even more obviously, but I hate them. I also have some coarse blonde hairs on the upper chin that bug. I had luck years ago with vaniqa on my upper lip's brown hairs but don't remember much progress with the blonde chin hairs and they weren't half as bad back then.

Top
#48364 - 12/28/07 08:19 PM Re: My experience with Vaniqa [Re: alli]
Nur Offline
Contributor

Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 11
I use vaniqa and it works. I combine it with the electrolysis I have. I can now have a life. I think that there are situations in which you can combine Elec with vaniqa and situations in which you shouldnt. It really depends on the individual person and there is no ONE thing that you should tell someone to do.

I already know the cons of getting the electrolysis done whilst using vaniqa and i did do only electrolysis for 9 months but there was still ALOT of hair left and i was still crazy suicidal over it. So i decided to combine my electrolysis with vaniqa. Lifesaver (although I still get upset generally about the hair all over).

I believe that if you only have a small area to be treated like the upper lip then its probably better not to use vaniqa and just keep up with electrolysis, BUT if you have much a larger area like a full beard and neck and youre desperate for quick hair reduction then do use vaniqa together with electrolysis! There is no harm and I really do not think it costs you a lot more. In the UK especially, vaniqa is actually very cheap when you get it on prescription - I get two tubes for one prescription.

The reason why there is no harm is because there are still hairs that come through even using vaniqa - it only slows the growth of hair it doesnt actually prevent hair from growing (although it does feel like that as there are lots of bald patches). And it doesnt affect the follicles that have already been treated and destroyed by electrolysis. Im trying to get rid of the most stubborn hairs that continue to grow despite the topical. So its not like your wasting your electrolysis treatments and wasting money.

You would be wasting your money if you were having laser and using vaniqa = there would be no point in having laser then. Electrolysis is however different - it is hair by hair treatment not by the patch that can be seen!


And seriosuly if you think putting on a cream twice a day is being a slave to something then I think thats a very wrong way of putting it. It feels more slave like going to an appointment for years and years. On the day I have an electrolgist appointment it wastes at least 3 hours of my day (travelling, treatment time etc) and then another few hours wallowing about the redness etc. Not to mention having to grow the hair in the first place which is true hell esp if you want to have a life or you have a professional career. Sometimes Im couped up in my home for weeks cos I just want to grow all the hair out so i can have an electrolysis appointment!


The message is to just tailor your hair removal methods to what suits you best.

Top
#48367 - 12/28/07 11:28 PM Re: My experience with Vaniqa [Re: Nur]
LAgirl Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 12/22/04
Posts: 9994
Loc: New York, NY
I think your approach to electrolysis is not exactly correct, so this way you will be going for years. What you should concentrate on is getting proper electrolysis treatments where ALL hair that needs to be gone is removed at EACH session. If you do that, there would be no use for Vaniqa. And if you're not doing this, electrolysis will take years for you to complete.

Please take a look at the electrolysis section of this forum and read on the fastest way to get results with electrolysis. You can be done in 9-18 months if you tackle the problem in the most efficient way possible. And that way, you won't need to spend hundreds of dollars on Vaniqa.

Top
#48370 - 12/29/07 12:08 AM Re: My experience with Vaniqa [Re: Nur]
dfahey Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 8675
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
This website is supportive of any method that works and pleases the consumer. We offer advice and back up the advice given with the pro's and con's. It is ultimately the decision of the hairy person which way to proceed, based on what they learn and what is availbale to them in their locale. We rejoice when posters like yourself tell about their successful experience. Thank you for your contribution.

A couple of things to point out: Vaniqa is definitely used in conjunction with laser. Vaniqa does not interfer with laser. Some clinicians report that using Vaniqa may mean that one needs less laser sessions.

Point two: Electrolysis is not for small areas only. I repeatedly say here that if all electrologists were using quality tools - computerized epilators, surgical magnification, halogen or LED lighting - and put good skill and special techniques to use, then a PCOS woman with a loaded beard on her face and neck could get first full clearance in 3-5 hours on average. Maintaining the area(s) and keeping the area hairfree would continue for about a year to 18 months. By month twelve, with consistent treatments, it becomes a nit picking process wih very few hairs needing treatment. Redness is not a problem if the electrologist has good equipment and skill. One does not have to grow hair for a week if the electrologist has high quality surgical magnification and lighting. If you don't have an electrologist in your locale that has modernized and continues to educate herself to speed up the process with little skin reaction, then you are doing the best you can and I admire your efforts to figure out what is working for you. No one would need Vaniqa or laser for facial hair if electrologists would bring it up several levels. The process of electrolysis is not to blame, but rather blame the electrologist that is stuck in the mud on Valium, performing at mediocre levels that do not serve them or at worse, their hirsute clients.

Vaniqa is a hair growth retardant. It does nothing to solve your problem longterm. You have correctly pointed that out already. For the many women who don't have the NHI plan with others paying for this expensive cream that lasts one to three months depending on the size of the area, it is very expensive and they do become a slave to a product that may or may not help them. It takes 2-6 months for this product to work. It was designed to be used with a person's other hair removal method (shaving, waxing, laser). It is not a depilatory. Should not be used if you are pregnant or are planning on becoming pregnant.

May I add that computerized epilators are available in many brands such as Apilus SX-500 and Platinum, SilhouetTone VMC model, Gentronics, Clareblend (recently), Fischer. Did I miss any? Consumers need to demand a better product if they feel dismayed by what they are currently getting. There is a way to do electrolysis within an acceptable timeframe and with great skin outcome. Oh, yes, and it is permanent, if performed correctly.

I favor electrolysis for the face, but if there is not a professional electrologist nearby that can handle your problem, then your plan will have to suffice, unfortunately. It will be very slow, but you seem content.


Edited by dfahey (12/29/07 01:53 AM)
_________________________
Dee Fahey, R.N., C.T.
Licensed by the State Medical Board of Ohio for Nursing license and Cosmetic Therapy/Electrolysis license
_____________________
ELECTROLYSIS FAQ'S:

British Institute & Association of Electrolysis

http://www.electrolysis.co.uk/?page_id=16

Top
#48371 - 12/29/07 12:18 AM Re: My experience with Vaniqa [Re: LAgirl]
Nur Offline
Contributor

Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 11
I really dont think there is a one "correct" way, that is what my post was trying to say.

I was not saying electrolysis doesnt work either, but it does take time and effort. This effort is something which a person wouldnt understand the complexity of until you go through it yourself.

You havent seen my hair growth nor the other issues I have so Im not sure you would be able to really comment on what type of treatment I am having.

Oh and I dont spend hundreds of dollars on vaniqa. I get a tube for 3-4 which is something like 6-8 US dollars. Its just great. \:\)

Top
#48372 - 12/29/07 12:21 AM Re: My experience with Vaniqa [Re: dfahey]
James W. Walker VII Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 7997
Loc: Buffalo NY, & Traveling the US...
I really think this person should visit our hair removal gallery. The photos there show people who have had real results.

I dare say that my client M.C. had more hairs removed than Nur has to give, and yet we were done in 15 months.

Before:
http://www.hairtell.com/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/152
After:
http://www.hairtell.com/photopost/showphoto.php/photo/155
_________________________
Electrolysis World Heavyweight Champion James W. Walker VII http://www.executiveclearance.com/beforeandafter.html
Setting a goal is not the main thing. It is deciding how you will go about achieving it and staying with that plan. --- Tom Landry
Has this site helped you? Pay it forward. Donate to keep HairTell & Hairfacts Online at http://www.hairfacts.com/feedback/support-this-site/

Top
#48373 - 12/29/07 12:36 AM Re: My experience with Vaniqa [Re: Nur]
Nur Offline
Contributor

Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 11
Dee

You are right that if all electrolgists were up to date and modernised things would be that more easier, I think electrologists have modernised much more in the US than they have in the UK. Ive even been to some expensive London clinics and even they dont have what you describe. It is a real shame. The reality is that 98% of most clinics dont have what you describe.

I agree that Vaniqa isnt a long term thing but for the moment and for the next few years it is great and it is cheap, it works and so I dont mind.

Im not convinced that it is economical combining vaniqa with laser though - maybe after your laser treatments for any finer hair that is left (and which the laser cant get) but not during. Although I would probably blast those fine hairs with electrolysis anyway - and if I was in dire need add vaniqa too.

Top
#48375 - 12/29/07 12:43 AM Re: My experience with Vaniqa [Re: Nur]
Nur Offline
Contributor

Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 11
James

Noone is disputing that electrolysis works. And as Dee mentioned, very few people like yourself and Dee have the machines and equipment you have, so it is misleading to say those results can be got anywhere all over the world in any location.

In addition, your client as a transgender would have used tablets which alter the hormones to additionally get rid of the hair and stop NEW hair from coming in. He didnt become female hair free by just electrolysis.

I cant use those tablets, unfortunately. And those tablets, can have extreme unwanted side effects.

It always used to and still does puzzle me how transgenders could have perfect hair free skin and why docs cant get females to have the same without a million complications!

Top
#48377 - 12/29/07 12:59 AM Re: My experience with Vaniqa [Re: Nur]
James W. Walker VII Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 7997
Loc: Buffalo NY, & Traveling the US...
We don't say that anyone can get the results we give anyplace in the world just by throwing a dart at a list of practitioners. That is one of the reasons this site exists.

It is incorrect to say that TG women have a drug course that RIDS THEM OF HAIR. The best the drugs can do is reduce in diamiter what ever hair they have on the face not the amount. Those drugs DO tend to keep any new follicles from starting to grow, but a person who fixed what ever was causing the PCOS hair growth would be in the same situaion.

So, your misunderstanding of that is the problem here. ELectrolysis *IS* the thing that allows TG women to have hair free and care free skin. The men who I clear live just as care free as the TG's that I treat when we are done. Problem for me is, I don't have any before and afters of just plain men who are willing to release their photos for viewing here, and most PCOS women don't want anyone seeing the "evidence" either. \:\) Only the TG's think it is more important to educate people than to have have plausable deniability about their treatments.
_________________________
Electrolysis World Heavyweight Champion James W. Walker VII http://www.executiveclearance.com/beforeandafter.html
Setting a goal is not the main thing. It is deciding how you will go about achieving it and staying with that plan. --- Tom Landry
Has this site helped you? Pay it forward. Donate to keep HairTell & Hairfacts Online at http://www.hairfacts.com/feedback/support-this-site/

Top
#48378 - 12/29/07 01:09 AM Re: My experience with Vaniqa [Re: James W. Walker VII]
dfahey Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 8675
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
Nur,

Most electrologists understand what you are saying because we've been there. We've looked in that mirror before.

The reason you get the Vaniqa for such a cheap price is because somebody else is paying for it with their taxes. That is not the case here in the US or in other countries like Italy. You are very lucky to have this advantage and I believe you when you say you are happy with your plan. The profession of electrolysis needs pratitioners who willingly upgrade and learn the best ways to get the hair off fast and permanently without violent skin reactions. Then people like you would not be a on such a slow train to permanency. I see women like you everyday, yes, I even work on Sundays. I don't need to see you to believe what you are dealing with, Nur. I get it. Again, your story is important and may help others figure out that using Vaniqa will give them relief. My frustration lies with practitioners that set themselves and their clients up for failure and betrays a proceedure (electrolysis)that offers what they really need for a furry face and neck, all accomplished in as little as 9-18 months.

Please understand that we are not jumping on your back, but rather we can't allow misinformation about electrolysis to stand unchallenged and misrepresented.
_________________________
Dee Fahey, R.N., C.T.
Licensed by the State Medical Board of Ohio for Nursing license and Cosmetic Therapy/Electrolysis license
_____________________
ELECTROLYSIS FAQ'S:

British Institute & Association of Electrolysis

http://www.electrolysis.co.uk/?page_id=16

Top
#48379 - 12/29/07 01:14 AM Re: My experience with Vaniqa [Re: James W. Walker VII]
Nur Offline
Contributor

Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 11
But its still a combination, to get rid of it right? So Im not really misunderstanding.

It is very difficult to "fix" PCOS. Some women can and do it brilliantly, but many many others dont without a lot of struggle along the way.

Top
#48380 - 12/29/07 01:16 AM Re: My experience with Vaniqa [Re: Nur]
Nur Offline
Contributor

Registered: 12/28/07
Posts: 11
Why dont you come to London Dee? ;\)

Top
#48381 - 12/29/07 01:25 AM Re: My experience with Vaniqa [Re: dfahey]
dfahey Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 8675
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
Oh, may I add that the laser and Vaniqa information was obtained from an unrestricted grant from SkinMedica, Inc. and Shire Pharmaceuticals Group. Leading dermatologists discuss how they've integrated Vaniqa into their practices and all of them say that they encourage patients to use Vaniqa while receiving laser hair reduction. There are several dermatology physician that are proponets for using both. I'll try to find the link for citation purposes.
_________________________
Dee Fahey, R.N., C.T.
Licensed by the State Medical Board of Ohio for Nursing license and Cosmetic Therapy/Electrolysis license
_____________________
ELECTROLYSIS FAQ'S:

British Institute & Association of Electrolysis

http://www.electrolysis.co.uk/?page_id=16

Top
#48382 - 12/29/07 01:47 AM Re: My experience with Vaniqa [Re: dfahey]
dfahey Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 8675
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
Nur,

I really hate traveling. Haven't hired a psychiatrist yet, as some friends have suggested. Don't need to because I figured out a while ago that traveling takes a lot of energy and I have none to spare.

Seriously, it would be so easy for the professional electrologists worldwide to bring it up. Apilus and SilhouetTone are international companies. I'm not sure about the other great companies I mentioned above, but they all can ship epilators anywhere. There's a better way to do permanent hair removal if present electrolysis setups are not pleasing clients for whatever reasons. Frustration is high on my side of the fence when I read posts like yours. Many of us professional electrologists know what works well and can deliver results to depressed or dismayed people like you. James and Dee are not the only ones that know this information. We are not that special in what we do and there should be no need for anyone traveling anywhere to get electrolysis if there was a way to get the word out that modern electrolysis care is within every professionals reach.
_________________________
Dee Fahey, R.N., C.T.
Licensed by the State Medical Board of Ohio for Nursing license and Cosmetic Therapy/Electrolysis license
_____________________
ELECTROLYSIS FAQ'S:

British Institute & Association of Electrolysis

http://www.electrolysis.co.uk/?page_id=16

Top
#48384 - 12/29/07 05:00 AM Re: My experience with Vaniqa [Re: dfahey]
alli Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 11/05/06
Posts: 185
Loc: Willoughby, OH
I agree very much so with what Dee is saying, specifically :" The process of electrolysis is not to blame but rather the electrologist stuck in the mud is". I can tell just after a month and a half that electrolysis is helping me and I have noticed a HUGE difference between a good electrologist with an awesome machine,who incorporates new modalities like microflash but no tried and true Blend modality, but crappy lighting and magnification equipment, and a great electrologist who does all modalities with a top of the line eplitator, as well as top of the line lighting AND mag equipment. The difference is incredible in every sense of the word.Unfortunately for me the great electrologist is 3 hrs away and the good one only 1 hr, which is still better than a bad electrologist with outdated equipment who only does one or two modalities down the street.

The sad reality is that many of us don't even have 2 out of 3 of these options anywhere remotely near us and we may be the ones left with only a mediocre electrolgist with mediocre equipment at best. What can we do to change this? Dee- you mentioned that we need to say something as customers but how and to whom? It seems like even the crappy electrologists are still getting enough business that they simply are not motivated to make any changes to their program, and meanwhile the rest of us, as hairy consumers, are suffering and at the mercy of the practicioners.

When I made my intial phone calls to research practitioners and asked if they used surgical loupes, one response I got was " I don't have time for that". This wraps up my frustration in a nutshell. PLEASE MAKE THE TIME FOR US, YOUR LIVELIHOOD!! I wonder if a plea to practitioners can be brought up at electrology conventions or something along those lines. Maybe we all can sign a petition here on hairtell....who's game? I will personally take the time to mail something out snailmail to everyone who's interested if it would help! This to me is tantamount to writing my local politician.....if only hair removal were as important to more ppl as it is to us.

Regarding Vaniqa: I still have a half tube that I stopped using b/c I broke out horribly and I think vaniqa was a big part of the culprit since it started a week into using it, but I am not sure. If I didn't have this reaction AND I got it for $6 a tube,I might be tempted to use it also. I did not mind putting it on at night but I didn't like the texture and "pilling" of the cream on my face during the day before putting on my make-up. It left little white residue peices on my skin and just made me waste more time in front of the mirror obsessing about not only the hair, but now other stuff drawing attention to my face.

I do agree that you need to stick with what makes you feel most comfortable, as long as you know the facts and have done your research. This forum is so helpful to see what other ppl in similar situations have experienced. I still feel so alone sometimes cuz I don't see too many hairy ppl in the real world, but I feel hope and connection when I'm reading or writing on this forum.

Top
#48387 - 12/29/07 08:09 AM Re: My experience with Vaniqa [Re: dfahey]
LAgirl Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 12/22/04
Posts: 9994
Loc: New York, NY
Have you seen a reputabe endocrinologist who specializes in PCOS? Reading a site like soulcysters.com where PCOS women share their stories and tips. There are ways to get your growth under control, without side effects. Run a search for spiro on this forum to get an idea. Even a birth control pill like Yasmine is sometimes enough to balance the hormones out for some women. Once again, this is something that a specialist can determine.

Also, there are many discussions here on London electrologists if you run a search. Maybe you can sample a couple more and find someone who is good and fast. What I'm not understanding is why you have the need to use Vaniqa if you're getting all the hair removed by electrolysis at each treatment, which is the most efficient way to get rid of all the hair. Even if you have a lot of hair, you should get to a clearance within a month or two at most, and then come in for treatment every time you see new hair pop up as weak new hairs are most easily killed. Can you expand on your treatments?

Top
#48762 - 01/15/08 06:19 AM Re: My experience with Vaniqa [Re: LAgirl]
Austrina Offline
Member

Registered: 01/15/08
Posts: 5
Does Hair inhibitors really work? I've heard of Kalo and tried several brands. But they dont seem to work as claimed. =( How lucky some pple are to be born hairless

PS: sorry I experience some error in the page and thus I have to use this to talk. I cant post new topic now... for whatever reason

Top
#48763 - 01/15/08 01:34 PM Re: My experience with Vaniqa [Re: Austrina]
James W. Walker VII Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 7997
Loc: Buffalo NY, & Traveling the US...
Things like Kalo only give the illusion of slower growth, if they have any effect at all. Vaniqua only slows the growth process, but as soon as you stop using it, one loses all effect.
_________________________
Electrolysis World Heavyweight Champion James W. Walker VII http://www.executiveclearance.com/beforeandafter.html
Setting a goal is not the main thing. It is deciding how you will go about achieving it and staying with that plan. --- Tom Landry
Has this site helped you? Pay it forward. Donate to keep HairTell & Hairfacts Online at http://www.hairfacts.com/feedback/support-this-site/

Top
#49735 - 02/27/08 01:59 AM Re: My experience with Vaniqa [Re: alli]
lefty2g , LE, CPE Offline
Top 20 Contributor

Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 232
Loc: Massachusetts, USA
I am constantly mazed at the people who are telling electrologists what kind of loupe to use or what kind of machine to use or some other advice they really know nothing about. I SAW ONE POST FROM A PERSON WHO WANTED "MEDICAL GRADE MAGNIFICATION". There is no such thing. There is high magnification,low magnification or something in between. Then there is the eyesight of the electrologist to consider, plus are the glasses CLEAN.

THERE IS DEFINITELY A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN OPERATORS. However, micro flash and some other names are designed to SELL the machine and it works. WE HAVE BEEN EDUCATED BY ADVERTISING THAT "NEWER IS BETTER{" BUT THIS IS NOT TRUE. If someone buys a new machine, for whatever reason, they HAVE TO JUSTIFY IT SO THEY REPEAT WHAT THE MANUFACTURERS SAY BUT THIS IS ONLY HYPE. Next week it will be NANO FLASH machine THEN TERA FLASH. However, when the right amout of heat is delivered to the right location during the anagen pase the treatment will be successful. This is no different than the type and number of DIETS availble. If you follow any of them and decrease your intake while increasing your output...you will lose weight. It all boils down to arithmetic. If you can see this you have got it licked but ONLY YOU CAN DO IT. You can not blame anyone else for failure. In electrolysis you can try to blame the machine, or lighting, or technique but you still have to consider how many hairs there are to remove, how large is the area, is the patient cooperating (keeping appointments, on time, clean, following post treatment instructions. etc.)

Top
#49738 - 02/27/08 03:56 AM Re: My experience with Vaniqa [Re: lefty2g , LE, CPE]
dfahey Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 8675
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
You are wrong again, Harvey Grove LE CPE. You really don't need to shout to make your point. You can use all the capital letters you want, but that doesn't make you the first and last authority on issues such as magnification, lighting or computerization in electrolysis. After greater than 2,500 posts that I have made over five years on this forum about such issues, I do not desire to repeat and engage in detailed exchanges with a retired electrolgist whose manner of approach borders on arrogance. I am constantly amazed by electrologists who boast that they have 27 years under their belt, and then lectures others that there is no way like the old way. I assume that your lecturing is one-sided because you never enlightened yourself about the other side. An open mind is a wonderful treasure to possess, you know.

If I were a betting woman, I would have to bet that you haven't even come close to touching a computerized epilator, or purchasing medical grade magnification or medical grade lighting. IF THAT IS THE CASE, THEN HOW CAN YOU BE SUCH AN AUTHORITY WITH YOUR SHOUT OUTS THAT BETTER TOOLS ARE ONLY ABOUT HYPE! Oh, sorry, I didn't mean to shout at you, Harvey. We explain and share with consumers what works really, really well in our practices and share this same information with other electrologists who may be curious enough to want the same and upgrade. If they choose not to do anything, their clients will still get permanent hair removal, eventually someday, on most hair structures, if they can see them.
_________________________
Dee Fahey, R.N., C.T.
Licensed by the State Medical Board of Ohio for Nursing license and Cosmetic Therapy/Electrolysis license
_____________________
ELECTROLYSIS FAQ'S:

British Institute & Association of Electrolysis

http://www.electrolysis.co.uk/?page_id=16

Top
#52637 - 06/03/08 01:42 AM Re: My experience with Vaniqa [Re: dfahey]
mirror Offline
Member

Registered: 06/03/08
Posts: 8
ive done electrolysis and laser. My mum was a beautician so had lots of electrolyis and had laser for years

and I have bad hirsutism. I can say elecyrolysis works. It does- I have removed sideburns thriugh this and hair on upper lip. Its worked and is better. The hair hasnt come back. But like i said I have it bad an i need it done over the whole face and not possible with eletrolysis. PLus I think I was getting too scared mentally with electrolysis. I think if you can take electrolysis get that done. I It honestly works better and faster.

Top
#53743 - 07/09/08 11:30 PM Re: My experience with Vaniqa [Re: Arlene R. Batz, CPE]
Ruby23 Offline
Member

Registered: 07/09/08
Posts: 7
Originally Posted By: Arlene R. Batz, CPE
I see that you know that once you stop using the drug, the hair will return. Why would you want to take a drug twice a day if you can end your unwanted hair problems with electrolysis?

I see that the Vaniqa post was your first and only post here.


I'm totally not a pro, but from what I have learned is that some conditions will cause you to continue to sprout new hairs out of different follicles, even if you permanently remove the existing ones. I could see how Vaniqa might be a better option there.


Edited by Ruby23 (07/09/08 11:31 PM)

Top
#53747 - 07/10/08 12:49 AM Re: My experience with Vaniqa [Re: Ruby23]
LAgirl Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 12/22/04
Posts: 9994
Loc: New York, NY
Vaniqa just makes you shave a bit less. And you have to apply it often and it's expensive. It doesn't actually remove the hair. Electrolysis removes the hair permanently. The body doesn't develop hair every day after you remove it permanently. So if you remove it permanently with electrolysis, you will need touchups once in a while for any brand new hair that your body develops (IF you have condition that you describe). But otherwise, you'll be hairfree. So you'll be putting that money towards a permanent solution.

Top
#69613 - 02/05/10 02:53 PM Re: My experience with Vaniqa [Re: LAgirl]
angelaw Offline
Contributor

Registered: 02/03/10
Posts: 12
Loc: Dorset, UK
can i combine vaniqa with the electrolysis then? or is it not a good idea?
_________________________
23 YO Female, olive type skin, coarse dark hair on chin due to tweezing.
Started Monday 8th Feb 2010-2011 - Electrolysis
2011 - 1 Session - lower jaw - LHR Soprano XLi

Top
#69618 - 02/05/10 03:28 PM Re: My experience with Vaniqa [Re: angelaw]
LAgirl Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 12/22/04
Posts: 9994
Loc: New York, NY
It defeats the point. Why slow down the growth when you should be killing that hair with electrolysis? Spend that money on more electrolysis hours instead. The best way to do electrolysis is to start with having long treatments up front to get to a clearance and then come in as soon as new hair pops up to kill it while it's weak.

Top
#69620 - 02/05/10 03:36 PM Re: My experience with Vaniqa [Re: LAgirl]
angelaw Offline
Contributor

Registered: 02/03/10
Posts: 12
Loc: Dorset, UK
ah brill, thanks LAgirl....
i have found someone who i feel i can use now and sheis lovely too, so she'll make me feel better about the whole process.... everyone is so informative and level-headed on here!
_________________________
23 YO Female, olive type skin, coarse dark hair on chin due to tweezing.
Started Monday 8th Feb 2010-2011 - Electrolysis
2011 - 1 Session - lower jaw - LHR Soprano XLi

Top
#81367 - 12/24/10 12:37 AM Re: My experience with Vaniqa [Re: angelaw]
palisandra Offline
Contributor

Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 31
Loc: Oakland, Ca
Hi all,

It's been a while since I posted but I was researching vaniqa for a friend and read this thread and am amazed by the timelines posed!

I have had to do my entire chin, underneath, out to the sides, lips and all that, and while it did take a few months or so (I'm thinking about 6 but I can't remember) to get to where we cleared every time, it certainly didn't clear up anytime soon after that.

I no go monthly, but this is my 6th year of electrolysis, and I don't think I had an amazing amount of hair. But, it only slowly tapered, and is still tapering. I went weekly, then eventually every two weeks as growth slowed down, then every 3 and now it's every 4. But 6 years! I don't know how anyone gets cleared in one year.

Anyone have insight? When I first got on this board it was when I was starting and I thought it might be a year or two, but I'm still at it. While it's definitely a lot less for sure, i still get enough to go in for a 45 minute appointment to get them all (used to be 1.5 hours weekly).

Is my electrologist doing it wrong? Can it be done wrong? Was I ripped off?

hmmm.

Top
#81370 - 12/24/10 04:51 AM Re: My experience with Vaniqa [Re: palisandra]
audrey32 Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 12/02/10
Posts: 92
Loc: NY
Originally Posted By: palisandra
Hi all,

It's been a while since I posted but I was researching vaniqa for a friend and read this thread and am amazed by the timelines posed!

I have had to do my entire chin, underneath, out to the sides, lips and all that, and while it did take a few months or so (I'm thinking about 6 but I can't remember) to get to where we cleared every time, it certainly didn't clear up anytime soon after that.

I no go monthly, but this is my 6th year of electrolysis, and I don't think I had an amazing amount of hair. But, it only slowly tapered, and is still tapering. I went weekly, then eventually every two weeks as growth slowed down, then every 3 and now it's every 4. But 6 years! I don't know how anyone gets cleared in one year.

Anyone have insight? When I first got on this board it was when I was starting and I thought it might be a year or two, but I'm still at it. While it's definitely a lot less for sure, i still get enough to go in for a 45 minute appointment to get them all (used to be 1.5 hours weekly).

Is my electrologist doing it wrong? Can it be done wrong? Was I ripped off?

hmmm.



It took you 6 years to finish electrolysis on your face and you said that you didn't have much hair? SIX years????? wow.
_________________________
In taking revenge a man is but even with his enemies; but in passing it over, he is superior
-Frances Bacon

Top
#81373 - 12/24/10 02:29 PM Re: My experience with Vaniqa [Re: audrey32]
Barbara_CPE Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 10/19/05
Posts: 1065
Loc: Kansas
When a woman begins growing excess facial hair they really don't know how much hair they are going to grow. If you begin to see hair, and begin to have it removed as soon as you start seeing it - you are fortunate if you are keeping ahead of the growth. If all electrolysis techniques are accurate, then the client who has 6 years of regular treatments is probably having the normal progressive growth that they would have seen without electrolysis - and fortunately at the end of that time - they are not suffering with the unwanted hair.

Full beards don't grow in overnight. They can take years to fully develop. It would understandable to "think" that maybe treatments are not working if you start electrolysis at the beginning or at the middle of your hair development. There are no tests to tell us how much you will grow and often times WHY a person even grows the hair.
_________________________
Barbara Greathouse, CPE
Kansas Licensed since 1980
Live by the 4 Agreements: Be impeccable with your word. Don't take anything personally. Don't make assumptions. Always do your best.



Top
#81400 - 12/26/10 10:03 PM Re: My experience with Vaniqa [Re: Barbara_CPE]
audrey32 Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 12/02/10
Posts: 92
Loc: NY
ok but when a hair is destroyed completely it doesn't come back right? The ones that grow are new hairs, right??
_________________________
In taking revenge a man is but even with his enemies; but in passing it over, he is superior
-Frances Bacon

Top
#81403 - 12/27/10 12:54 AM Re: My experience with Vaniqa [Re: audrey32]
beate_r Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 07/25/05
Posts: 679
Loc: Hattersheim, Germany
Yes, they are. At least mostly (we are good but not perfect).

Audrey and palisandra, please have a look at a man's beard. It usually develops during its late puberty, but it is not uncommon that it will become slowly stronger and denser during half of his life. Every woman has the potential to grow a full beard like every man, if there is just enough DHT and her androgen receptors do fully work. This can be impressively learned from trans-men.

This means that hair can develop in the face of a woman's hair as long as the hormonal situation causing the hair growth persists.

Anyway: what You, palisandra, describe in terms of time and frequency accumulates to a pretty large amount of hours. Did You count them?

As a rule of thumb, a mans beard typically requires 150-200 hours, sometimes less, but sometimes much more. I am at more than 300 hours plus 11 laser treatments over meanwhile 5 1/2 yeas, and i am still not done.
_________________________
Beate Ritzert

Elektroepilation Dr. Beate Ritzert
http://epi.ritzert.net/en/

Top
#81404 - 12/27/10 07:51 AM Re: My experience with Vaniqa [Re: beate_r]
palisandra Offline
Contributor

Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 31
Loc: Oakland, Ca
It has been my understanding that each hair is treated multiple times before it actually doesn't come back. I'm assuming each of my hairs has needed more treatments than average. They were very, very thick, deep, and tough.

As for it growing in, I don't think that's it. It was "fully" grown in, growing from the age of about 18 to 30 and stable for years before I started, no new areas. I had been plucking all that time, unknowingly strengthening the roots (or so says my electrolysis books).

She at first could only remove about a quarter-sized amount of hair in an hour, usually in a patch just below the corner of my mouth but not quite the chin. Then, the next week she'd take any hairs that appeared there again if any, and would widen the patch. It was quite a while before we cleared my face, but no, I wouldn't say I had a lot of hair compared to, say, a man. Not by any means a full beard, and nothing on my cheeks but a few stray hairs. Just mostly under my chin, on my chin, going up the sides of my chin some, a bit of sideburn, and some lip. The under my chin area was very dense, though. Each hair did take a long time to finally slide out, though, and some just couldn't be treated for long enough to have it slide due to risking skin damage (I think?) so she kills it as much as she can and then takes it (could that "almost plucking" be actually making it worse?).

Anyway, as treatment progressed, I don't think I've seen any new growth, but I know it's hard to tell. It definitely lessens, and the hairs change in consistency, sort of getting weaker and stranger, nothing like they used to be. They are quite fair now, and can fall out if I play with them too much (so I don't).

As for the number of hours, no, I have no idea. At first it was weekly, so if that was a year or two, that could be 100 hours (or wait, did I do 1.5 hours at first? I think maybe...). Now it's once a month, so no more than 12 a year. I guess it's possible to be under 300 hours still. The once a month rate has been at least for 2 or 3 years now. I don't grow it fast enough anymore to have closer appointments, but I do still grow a number of hairs that still takes an hour to get (though, granted, I do a lot more lip than I used to, which adds to the time. I elected not to include those hairs at first, since they were lower priority comparatively at the time, so it's not really fair to say it takes an hour to clear. I think it's more like 40 minutes).

One of my concerns is that this electrologist does something unskilled or non-standard in my treatment, making this stretch out. I do feel that some of them are plucked, and I always wonder about it. She says she treats them as long as she can and then has to take them, but the books say you're supposed to treat until it slides out on it's own, right? I've always wondered if that is just strengthening the hair like my own plucking did all those years.

Has any of you ever seen someone go 6 years that had done 10-15 years of plucking before you started? Not a full beard at all, but the areas I did have were very densely packed.

I'm at least glad that all the hairs now are wimpy and fine and I don't see anything that looks like a new hair, such that I could tell (I remember the way they looked growing in, and they don't look like that now). So I'm clearly on the downhill side. But god, when is this going to be over? It'll be 6.5 years in feb (started in august).

Top
#81411 - 12/27/10 09:25 PM Re: My experience with Vaniqa [Re: palisandra]
beate_r Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 07/25/05
Posts: 679
Loc: Hattersheim, Germany
To sum it up: You have had significantly less hair than a typical male beard and have taken more hours than typically used for a male beard. Did i get it right?

Do You know what method she uses, galvanic, some kind of blend, slow thermolysis, fast thermolysis? How many hairs per minute (roghly), alternatively treatment time per hair? Did You compare that to the examples and hints on efficient treatment given for example in these forums?

Beate
_________________________
Beate Ritzert

Elektroepilation Dr. Beate Ritzert
http://epi.ritzert.net/en/

Top
#81492 - 12/31/10 06:30 PM Re: My experience with Vaniqa [Re: beate_r]
palisandra Offline
Contributor

Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 31
Loc: Oakland, Ca
Well, I think so. I wasn't sure how long a typical male beard took, but yeah, it looks like that's right.

She uses a blend, I know that, but I've never heard of fast or slow so I can't take a guess. Hairs per minute are hard to estimate, really. I've never counted and don't get a real sense of when she's getting one to be able to count. I'm not sure what you mean by compare to the examples. Can you point me to a link?

I'd say it takes a few seconds a hair, she tests it by tugging a bit, leaves the probe in a bit more, etc. The hairs don't just come out in one second or anything, but, um, maybe more like 5 seconds? I'm guessing wildly here. Maybe I have skin that scars easily (not that I'm aware of though) so she is careful to not over-treat any hairs? Though that was a problem when they were really dense, and they're not that now. Maybe she's doing longer per hair now to really get them dead? gosh.

She's a really sensitive person, and I've been reluctant to just bluntly ask if she's not doing it right (hell, how can you ask that anyway, of anyone?), and I know she'd notice if I just left her after all these years and tried someone else, so I do feel a bit stuck. She gives me a break after all this time, charging much less than the posted prices, so I suppose in some way it's evening out, though now I know I'm going to be hitting the menopause years at some point and maybe never will have actual hair-free years before I start growing new ones for real.

I know this isn't a problem anyone can solve for me, really. Either I have an uncomfortable interaction with her explaining I suspect that it's her technique that's been keeping me here all these years, which will crush her (yeah, I know it shouldn't but it will and it's hard to look at a person and do that even if it isn't your fault), or I just keep going once a month and keep knocking the remaining hairs out at this rate. It's clearly working on some level. sigh.

I guess I'd feel better if I knew she was doing it right and it's just an unusual situation, but I don't know how to evaluate her. She does say that most other people end faster, but I don't know if that's just sort of covering her butt or what. I have a hard time believing she'd lie to me, since she's really the guileless type. I dunno.

Top
#81495 - 12/31/10 09:00 PM Re: My experience with Vaniqa [Re: palisandra]
palisandra Offline
Contributor

Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 31
Loc: Oakland, Ca
Oh, and this strange thing happened that I think about a lot.

So, we moved to a new area, something that was low priority at first and not officially bugging me, but you know how things change and your bar gets lowered?

Well, for me it was the space below my bottom lip, in the center. I'd had longer hairs there, but not very coarse. And it was a painful place, so I didn't want to do it before. I decided to tackle it.

She went quickly since it was so painful to me, but I started realizing that I thought maybe she was removing them before they were ready just so she could spare me and go quicker. I wasn't sure. Then I started noticing that they were growing in thicker and more coarse! I asked, but she said it was probably just the timing of things, a coincidence, and that they were going to be thicker anyway, something like that. I was suspicious, and then later just said "hey, I can take the pain, do what you need to do and no need to go quickly. I really want those hairs dead, so treat them as long as you can, and I'll take it." I gritted myself, and she has done as I asked. And yeah, the hairs have been getting lighter ever since, though it's taking still a long time.

I'm not sure who is right, though. It *could* be a coincidence, and I could be growing hair there more now, for sure. But it's hard to deny that they got worse with treatment at first. I really feel like it's hard to critique her as a non-professional, but it made me uneasy. Now, I don't know how long a lighter hair would take to make coarser since I don't pluck them myself anymore (and never did in that location) so I don't have a comparison, but I wonder what you all think.

Top
#81496 - 12/31/10 09:01 PM Re: My experience with Vaniqa [Re: palisandra]
palisandra Offline
Contributor

Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 31
Loc: Oakland, Ca
Oh, and lastly, what would the professionals among you think if a client of 6 years left you without adequate explanation, or the converse, if they left you saying they didn't feel you were doing it right? After 6 years of supposed satisfaction with your work? How would you take it? What kind of conversation would you expect?

Top
#82641 - 02/05/11 07:32 AM Re: My experience with Vaniqa [Re: palisandra]
palisandra Offline
Contributor

Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 31
Loc: Oakland, Ca
I'm sorry this thread died while we were mid convo. Is there a better place for me to post these questions?

Top
#82654 - 02/05/11 05:42 PM Re: My experience with Vaniqa [Re: palisandra]
dfahey Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 8675
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
Sorry this was missed, but it was New Years Eve/Day!

So, you are talking about the "billy goat" area , middle under lip. If a hair is treated properly, it doesn't grow back thicker and darker. Those are probably new hairs. It can be an ouchy area, but usually, just removing the biggest, darker hairs only takes a few minutes. There are are a mixture of colors and structures that have shedding hairs, growing hairs and transitioning hairs, living side by side. Some hairs will slide out nicely and and some are hopelessly stuck in place with super glue. If you get a first clearance, the next group of hairs to appear may be more pigmented due to the fact that they are new hairs,not hairs that were treated last time. So do give her a chance with this NEW area. She uses blend and that is a great modality, but if I were to use PicoFlash thermolysis, that would work as well. It all comes down to what we know best and our comfort level.

Six years is a lot time. If your appointments are short and you don't get cleared of all bothersome hair each and every time, then I can understand the six year gig.

I hope to NEVER have a conversation with a client about why they have been seeing me at regular intervals for six years. That would be very awkward. Unless they are on long term steroids and Provera, I would think that something is wrong with this picture. That is a lot of time. I don't know all the details of your case or what your hair problem looks like, so don't take my word as gospel. I just know that I have never seen anyone continuously for six years. Most people would have just quit out of desperation and not said anything or they would have quit and tried out a some other electrologists to compare, probably without an explanation. Do what you feel is right. No feedback when you are not happy doesn't make her a better practitioner. We all need feedback and it can be presented in a respectful, polite and helpful way.

As I flip through my charts, I occasionally say, "Hey! What happened to her?".People come and go, sometimes before I know they are finished. Hopefully, they disappear because they are happy with the results. Who knows what clients say about me when they quit too soon. I don't take it personally if they don't tell me why they have not returned. It's their business. It could be related to money or their need to satisfy their urge to tweeze or because they never grasped the principles of hair growth cycles and how electrolysis works. If they were unhappy with me, I would be happy to hear what they say and try to work it out with them. If they were asking the impossible of me, I would sugest they go to someone else. Good luck deciding what to do.


_________________________
Dee Fahey, R.N., C.T.
Licensed by the State Medical Board of Ohio for Nursing license and Cosmetic Therapy/Electrolysis license
_____________________
ELECTROLYSIS FAQ'S:

British Institute & Association of Electrolysis

http://www.electrolysis.co.uk/?page_id=16

Top
#92903 - 10/21/11 04:46 PM Re: My experience with Vaniqa [Re: dfahey]
palisandra Offline
Contributor

Registered: 11/26/03
Posts: 31
Loc: Oakland, Ca
Thanks for your reply. I only checked just now since there was a lag.

And yeah, it's been that long. I have an hour+ appointment each time, and do get clearance (minus the full upper lip, which I cannot endure). And every month, there's still more regrowth. It's certainly way less then when we started, but every time I get that regrowth at about the 3 week mark, I get suspicious and depressed again. Is she plucking? Pulling them out too early? Do I just have some weird growth situation that makes me unusual? She insists she's never had anyone stay this long, but who knows if that's true?

As for "billy goat," all my hairs there are light and fine, just long and dense. That was the same for my bottom lip middle area, but as soon as she started treating those, they grew in thicker. She was going quickly on each hair since it hurt so much, and I suspected that resulted in "plucking," meaning treating too briefly and then pulling anyway. I asked her to go longer even though it hurt a huge amount and as soon as she did, they started growing back less. I'm afraid she'll do the same on the even-more-painful center upper lip, so I'm just not doing that area in fear. I'm considering Vaniqa just for that area, but I don't know if it works on hair that is technically vellus, just long.

I don't know how to leave her without admitting a lack of faith after all these years. I mean, I did have a lot of hair, and it was very thick after many years of plucking. Man-beard thick. With very dense patches, making treatment difficult. Thats no longer the case, and things are definitely sparse and hairs are definitely thinner. Something must have been working. And I'm now approaching menopause time, wondering if I'll just get new growth now and have to do this monthly for the rest of my life.

Should I be complaining about having to go once a month? I'm not sure. Maybe that's normal. One hour or so, once a month. I feel like I must be close to the end now, since the hairs have much more space around them, and there are nowhere near as many, but I can't tell if I'm lying to myself and that just five dang appointments with someone else would end this forever already. She keeps telling me that the new growth I'm still getting is hairs on their own cycle, that probably haven't shown up for treatment in a long time, and we're just spending time getting through all the cycles, but how long can that be true?

Sigh.

Top
Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 4 5 >


Moderator:  Andrea, James W. Walker VII 
Sponsored Sidebar Links
Recent Posts
electrolysis for entire body
by awarren28
10 minutes 35 seconds ago
when there too fine
by ozarksace
Today at 06:44 PM
Dr. Angela Christiano nucleic acid target gene int
by awarren28
Today at 04:53 PM
laser hair removal on arms
by Warrior123
Today at 09:59 AM
Laser or electrolysis in my case...
by nizyk
Today at 07:30 AM
Top Posters
LAgirl 9994
dfahey 8675
James W. Walker VII 7997
Andrea 4054
depilacionelectr 2530
Who's Online
1 registered (awarren28), 55 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod