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#38784 - 01/29/07 06:58 AM Is this the best book to buy?
RedSpawn Offline
Member

Registered: 01/29/07
Posts: 5
Loc: Colorado
Hello all.

First, thanks for saving me $100! I was getting ready to buy the Finally Free hair 'remover' and stumbled across this site. Needless to say, y'all enlightened me quite a bit. \:\)

On to my question...

So, if I do decide to self electrocute myself, ;\) is this the best book to get?

COSMETIC AND MEDICAL ELECTROLYSIS AND TEMPORARY HAIR REMOVAL by R.N. Richards, M.D., G.E. Meharg, R.N

Are there additional books or resources available that you would recommend in addition to or instead of the above book?

Thanks.

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#38791 - 01/29/07 03:22 PM Re: Is this the best book to buy? [Re: RedSpawn]
James W. Walker VII Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 8055
Loc: Buffalo NY, & Traveling the US...
I would recommend both that book and "The Blend Method: Real World Electrology" by Michael Bono, which is available through Texas Electrolysis Supply. If you read both of those, you should be able to avoid the worst mistakes. Of course, you will still come to the conclusion that finding a partner to both learn and trade work on is better, than working on yourself, and you will conclude that finding a good practitioner to work on you would be the best (as well as have a larger appreciation for what they actually do and the skills they must hone) and you will be better capable of doing something that will both work, and not have so many negative results.
_________________________
http://www.executiveclearance.com/beforeandafter.html
Setting a goal is not the main thing. It is deciding how you will go about achieving it and staying with that plan. --- Tom Landry
Has this site helped you? Pay it forward. Donate to keep HairTell & Hairfacts Online at http://www.hairfacts.com/feedback/support-this-site/

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#38798 - 01/29/07 07:21 PM Re: Is this the best book to buy? [Re: James W. Walker VII]
NoHair Offline
Top Ten Contributor

Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 276
I am a successful DIYer and I did not come to either of these conclusions.

You'd think there would be a moderator for the DIY section to limit spam for professionals.

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#38800 - 01/29/07 08:51 PM Re: Is this the best book to buy? [Re: NoHair]
James W. Walker VII Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 8055
Loc: Buffalo NY, & Traveling the US...
If that is what that was, you seem to be doing a great job of following any post anyone makes saying that self workers find it frustrating with your statements that you found it to be a breeze.

Of course, enough people have posted that they did spend their money, and give up after very little work was attempted.
_________________________
http://www.executiveclearance.com/beforeandafter.html
Setting a goal is not the main thing. It is deciding how you will go about achieving it and staying with that plan. --- Tom Landry
Has this site helped you? Pay it forward. Donate to keep HairTell & Hairfacts Online at http://www.hairfacts.com/feedback/support-this-site/

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#38802 - 01/29/07 09:34 PM Re: Is this the best book to buy? [Re: James W. Walker VII]
dfahey Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 9664
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
Many of my clients come to me because they thought about trying or have tried to do electrolysis on themself and gave up after they found what a ridiculous amount of time they were spending in doing so and they were not even sure if they were affecting the hair. Also, the flimsy apparatus they were sold, fell apart.

This is one of those things in life where there are only a few talented people per 100,000 that can actually make a slam dunk with self-electrolysis. I won't mention the scarring that results when people screw up. I won't mention how depressed and hopeless they feel when they try and fail.

If anyone wants to try DIY'ing, we have graciously given mini-instructions here on hairtell and have recommended books and principles over and over again, but I think it is fair to caution the newbie's on what they may be getting themself into as well. ELECTROLYSIS IS NOT AN EASY ART AND SKILL TO MASTER ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE DOING IT ON YOURSELF, ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE INFERIOR EQUIPMENT and people should be told that. If anyone wants to poo-poo the above capitalized comment, they are certainly welcome to carry on and do it themself. At least we attempt to be honest here.

NoHair, I am very proud of your talent for DYI'ing and you have been very helpful to many consumers. I don't think we will ever know how many people were and are as successful as you with this, but judging by the clients who come to me for help, it does appear that many are frustrated with their DIY attempts and are embarrassed to show me the results (scarring).
_________________________
Dee Fahey, R.N., C.T.
Licensed by the State Medical Board of Ohio for Nursing license and Cosmetic Therapy/Electrolysis license
_____________________
ELECTROLYSIS FAQ'S:

British Institute & Association of Electrolysis

http://www.electrolysis.co.uk/?page_id=16

Do not give up, the beginning is always the hardest.

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#38814 - 01/30/07 05:20 AM Re: Is this the best book to buy? [Re: dfahey]
NoHair Offline
Top Ten Contributor

Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 276
The "Be patient and achieve all things" mantra seems contradictory to James conclusions that a DIY will certainly fail and eventually go to a Pro.

I think it proper to inform and warn. Many can not develop the competency to DIY and those may turn to a Pro. Those that are satisfied with DIY may not visit a pro to become a statistic in the purported facts.

I for one would not be hair free in those areas that I am now if it were not for DIY. I try to share what I know to help others in the same situation. They may fail and may never visit a pro. I found DIY such a godsend that I spend time here trying to help others that seek the same satisfaction. I find it tiresome for Pros to visit the DIY section and propose that DIY is pretty much impossible when I am aware of others who have had success.

I'm not trying to make enemies or start a war. Just stating the facts as truthfully as I can.

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#38817 - 01/30/07 06:25 AM Re: Is this the best book to buy? [Re: RedSpawn]
RedSpawn Offline
Member

Registered: 01/29/07
Posts: 5
Loc: Colorado
I found wisdom in each of your replies. Thank you for sharing. If I do decide to do this I plan on building my unit based on the unit made on the hairfreethere web page everyone recommends. That should remedy the issues with using crappy equipment.

I can understand how many would become disillusioned when starting with it. Especially if they think it will be easy. One thing this site does very well is explain that it really isn't easy to do yourself. So, knowing that, I can anticipate the workload involved and can mentally prepare myself for it.

The big appeal to me on the DIY idea is the fact that my spouse and I can do areas on each other that we wouldn't be comfortable with someone else doing. Another nice thing is the much lower cost. It seems to me that having it done professionally would require a large financial commitment. DIY requires a large time and learning curve commitment. Some people can do the latter and some can not.

Myself, if I'm determined to do something, I can make it happen. It seems like the whole DIY/Professional debate comes down to knowing and being honest with yourself. If oodles of money was no problem for me, I'd be happy to pay someone else to do it. \:\)

While it is true that it would be faster if a professional did it, it will still take quite a bit of time and a professionals time has to be paid for.

How much would you say it would cost on average for a professional to remove the hair on a woman's legs, underarms and vaginal area? As in the total cost. I understand that everyone is different and will require varying amounts of time so I'm just looking for a ballpark figure.

In addition to knowing how much it would cost I'm curious to know about how long that much work would take a professional to complete? One year, Two years? What is a realistic amount of time?

Again, thanks for your replies and assistance.

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#38818 - 01/30/07 06:59 AM Re: Is this the best book to buy? [Re: James W. Walker VII]
RedSpawn Offline
Member

Registered: 01/29/07
Posts: 5
Loc: Colorado
 Originally Posted By: James W. Walker VII, CPE
I would recommend both that book and "The Blend Method: Real World Electrology" by Michael Bono, which is available through Texas Electrolysis Supply.


Thanks for the added recommendation James. I could not however, find the Michael Bono book available at the store you recommended. In fact, searching on google only brought up a couple of venders that even mentioned it. I only found one that was selling it. Maybe I'll check my library! \:\)

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#38822 - 01/30/07 02:03 PM Re: Is this the best book to buy? [Re: RedSpawn]
James W. Walker VII Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 8055
Loc: Buffalo NY, & Traveling the US...
You have to email or call Texas Electrolysis Supply on the phone, or fax them for the book. Their web site is notoriously unrepresentative of what they really sell. I would guess that only 1/3 of what they sell is actually listed on the site.

It is hard to say how much time or money a pro (or DIY or Do Each Other) job will take, as one has to be able to know the number of hairs per square centimeter, in the treatment area, the number of hairs per minute the person doing the work can remove, and the regularity the treatments will occur. On a perfect schedule, 9 months would clear anything up, but most people don't put in the time or frequency to acheive that, so 18 - 24 months is more the norm. After all, the practitioner can't remove the hair, if the client doesn't present the area for treatment. It is also not necessarily true that the most expensive practitioner will do the best and fastest work. Many times the best, and fastest work is done by someone in the middle of the price ranges.

As for NoHair's comments, it seems that he is reading something into my words that are not there, saying that education in a field makes one surely come to a conclusion that one thing is good, another is better, and something else is best, is not saying one will surely fail. Would you argue as vigorously with me if I said that once one learns about cars and test drives them all, one will find that a Yugo is transportation, but any Pontiac is better, and a Lexus Hybrid is the best of the three cars mentioned here? That is not stating as fact that anyone who drives all three will no doubt buy a Lexus. It only means they will wish they had one even as they double clutch the 3 speed manual transmission on the Yugo that was purchased for financial reasons.

So to clear up this misunderstanding for anyone else who thinks like NoHair:
If one were married to a professional electrologist, one would not do self work (just as most professionals won't do self work) and although one may wish one had a professional, one would understand the benefit of a friend, or electrolysis partner trading work with you so that the proper angles are achieved for the best work that can be done by those who have not been to electrolysis school, nor have professional equipment and finaly, some will just do it themselvess, while knowing that someone else, pro, or with no more skill than themselves would do more work in less time than someone doing a reverse insertion while looking in a mirror.

I said, "good, better, best," not "impossible, worthless, only safe option available"
_________________________
http://www.executiveclearance.com/beforeandafter.html
Setting a goal is not the main thing. It is deciding how you will go about achieving it and staying with that plan. --- Tom Landry
Has this site helped you? Pay it forward. Donate to keep HairTell & Hairfacts Online at http://www.hairfacts.com/feedback/support-this-site/

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#38823 - 01/30/07 02:07 PM Re: Is this the best book to buy? [Re: RedSpawn]
smoothwillie Offline
Contributor

Registered: 05/05/06
Posts: 10
Loc: Tennessee
I got the book from Prestige Electrolysis supply.

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#38824 - 01/30/07 03:05 PM Re: Is this the best book to buy? [Re: NoHair]
dfahey Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 9664
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
 Originally Posted By: NoHair
I find it tiresome for Pros to visit the DIY section and propose that DIY is pretty much impossible when I am aware of others who have had success.

I'm not trying to make enemies or start a war. Just stating the facts as truthfully as I can.


You are honest and helpful, NoHair. Keep it coming. As a professional electrologist, I need to visit all the forums so I can be aware of all kinds of hair removal. Electrologists are asked questions about methods of hair removal,especially in the first consultation. People are trying to sort out and discover what they should be doing for their particular hair problem and we really need to know what we can about every possible method along with the pro's and con's of each.

We report what we see also with honesty and I must reiterate that the professional electrologists on this bulletin board have offered information to DIY'ers on many occassions, helpful tips about proper insertions, probe choice, balancing intensity and timing, hygiene and equipment. We have not been secretive about information that could help one on a DIY venture. We have actually been very encouraging to the point where I have received private messages from other electrologists advising me not to give this information to non-professionals. They were appalled by the instructional help I was giving. I assume James got those same lectures??

Dee
_________________________
Dee Fahey, R.N., C.T.
Licensed by the State Medical Board of Ohio for Nursing license and Cosmetic Therapy/Electrolysis license
_____________________
ELECTROLYSIS FAQ'S:

British Institute & Association of Electrolysis

http://www.electrolysis.co.uk/?page_id=16

Do not give up, the beginning is always the hardest.

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#38837 - 01/30/07 08:02 PM Re: Is this the best book to buy? [Re: dfahey]
James W. Walker VII Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 8055
Loc: Buffalo NY, & Traveling the US...
I am sure that I get much worse hate mail than you Dee. After all, I have discussed how one can get professional epilator/electrolysis machines and even get them fixed if need be. I have also said that getting a buddy to learn with you would increase the chances of decent work and more hairs per square inch, thus allowing a home user to possibly get what they actually want -- one initial payment for equipment and books, and a lifetime of hair free, care free skin.

We even have husband and wife teams who have reported success doing this, and boyfriends and girlfriends, friends, and even strangers who met on this site and paired up who have reported succesful learning and treatments on the site.

Do I discourage guys from buying a One Touch and working on their foreskin the day they get it out of the box? I sure do! Have I given them information that could allow them to one day remove that hair permanently (be it at home, or in a pro's office), yes, I have done that here as well. Do I get vilified for it when I am around a group of professionals, like at a convention or seminar, and get nasty emails? Yes, I most certainly do.
_________________________
http://www.executiveclearance.com/beforeandafter.html
Setting a goal is not the main thing. It is deciding how you will go about achieving it and staying with that plan. --- Tom Landry
Has this site helped you? Pay it forward. Donate to keep HairTell & Hairfacts Online at http://www.hairfacts.com/feedback/support-this-site/

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#38872 - 01/31/07 08:48 AM Re: Is this the best book to buy? [Re: James W. Walker VII]
RedSpawn Offline
Member

Registered: 01/29/07
Posts: 5
Loc: Colorado
Thanks for the reply and clarification.
 Originally Posted By: James W. Walker VII, CPE
Many times the best, and fastest work is done by someone in the middle of the price ranges.

Why do you say that?

 Originally Posted By: James W. Walker VII, CPE

Do I discourage guys from buying a One Touch and working on their foreskin the day they get it out of the box? I sure do!

Just to let you know, I have never, ever laughed as hard when reading a forum post as I just did when I read that part of your post! That was great James! ROFLOL

 Originally Posted By: James W. Walker VII, CPE
Have I given them information that could allow them to one day remove that hair permanently (be it at home, or in a pro's office), yes, I have done that here as well. Do I get vilified for it when I am around a group of professionals, like at a convention or seminar, and get nasty emails? Yes, I most certainly do.

Well I am new here and all but I can at least say that I'm very appreciative of your willingness to help even though you take heat for doing so. This goes for Dee and all you other pros who take time to help as well.

 Originally Posted By: smoothwillie
I got the book from Prestige Electrolysis supply.

Are you a DIYer soothwillie? Would you also recommend that book? How did it help you and what has your experience been down the DIY hair folical cooking path? \:\)


Edited by RedSpawn (01/31/07 09:07 AM)

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#38875 - 01/31/07 02:24 PM Re: Is this the best book to buy? [Re: RedSpawn]
smoothwillie Offline
Contributor

Registered: 05/05/06
Posts: 10
Loc: Tennessee
RedSpawn

I am a DIY'er, and am fairly new to this site. I have been doing electrolysis on myself for about a year and I am having what I would call (pretty good luck so far). Maybe it is not luck. I am also starting to do some for my wife. I was the test subject and have now started on her. My profession is an electrician and I get calls daily from people wanting free advice. I give out some advice sometimes depending on the situation. These people here do the same. I am visiting this site more and more often because I am so interested in electrolysis and how it works. I have been looking into on line schooling because I am so interested. Some of the shop's in my don't really go after male clients. I think it would be a good client area to go after. Any one with an opinion on this matter please let me know what you think.

As far as the book, I have gotten more inforation from that book than the other three I have combined.


Edited by smoothwillie (01/31/07 02:35 PM)

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#38876 - 01/31/07 03:00 PM Re: Is this the best book to buy? [Re: smoothwillie]
dfahey Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 9664
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
With absolute certainty, men are good clients to go after. I love working on men clients, just like I like working on women clients.

Men have unwanted hair problems like women. Whether it be issues like re-shaping the beard, tufts of bristley hairs growing from the ears, arms, shoulders back hair, a surgeon wanting the hair removed from his hands, hair removal from the top of the nose, hair removal in eyebrow area so they don't look like wolfman (middle part mainly), any electrologist can handle this if they so desired. Trouble is, this is a woman dominated profession and electrologists usually work alone in their offices, so there is a certain cautionary factor driving some not see men. It would be great if more men became electrologists. More men are enrolling in nursing schools today, so why not for electrolysis?
I'm sure James Walker the 7th, CPE would like to have more balance in the profession as well.

Dee
_________________________
Dee Fahey, R.N., C.T.
Licensed by the State Medical Board of Ohio for Nursing license and Cosmetic Therapy/Electrolysis license
_____________________
ELECTROLYSIS FAQ'S:

British Institute & Association of Electrolysis

http://www.electrolysis.co.uk/?page_id=16

Do not give up, the beginning is always the hardest.

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#38884 - 01/31/07 09:49 PM Re: Is this the best book to buy? [Re: dfahey]
James W. Walker VII Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 8055
Loc: Buffalo NY, & Traveling the US...
Often the best work is by people in the middle of the price ranges, as those who charge the most are often charging for their office space, and not their skill. Those with the most skill are not usually looking to do less work for more money, but actually looking to help the most people, while making a fair living.

I am glad I was able to bring a laugh out loud moment for you and others. As serious as what we discuss here is, it is still open for humor, and it gets the point across.

Although I see clients from all over, it is silly to think that I would be looking to stop people from DIY as a way to drive business to my industry. The industry only exists because a trained chimpanzee can't do what we do. It is no different from roof repair and exterior wall siding. Some people can do it themselves, and all is well in the world, most others will actually SAVE money having a pro do it, because mistakes won't have to be fixed later (and a leak leading to a collapsed ceiling is a VERY expensive mistake, sort of like those pock marc scars I see in my office every year from DIY'ers who come to me a bit too late).

And Finally, I would love to welcome another guy to the conventions and the industry. Do you know what it is like being the only guy in a room full of 350 women who is not someone's husband who is only there to keep an eye on the credit cards?

I have often said that if one only buys ONE electrolysis book it should be Michael Bono's. I like the First Edition better, but it is still the best book of the bunch. Consider this, I have met all the authors of all the electrolysis texts books, other than Hinkle, and I consider them all friends, or at least respected colleagues. I may have a better personal relationship with the authors of other books, but for someone starting from nothing, Mike's is the best book to start with. (And yes, I take heat for that too.)
_________________________
http://www.executiveclearance.com/beforeandafter.html
Setting a goal is not the main thing. It is deciding how you will go about achieving it and staying with that plan. --- Tom Landry
Has this site helped you? Pay it forward. Donate to keep HairTell & Hairfacts Online at http://www.hairfacts.com/feedback/support-this-site/

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#39359 - 02/17/07 03:15 PM Re: Is this the best book to buy? [Re: RedSpawn]
DIY'er Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 12/16/02
Posts: 411
 Quote:
The big appeal to me on the DIY idea is the fact that my spouse and I can do areas on each other that we wouldn't be comfortable with someone else doing. Another nice thing is the much lower cost. It seems to me that having it done professionally would require a large financial commitment. DIY requires a large time and learning curve commitment. Some people can do the latter and some can not.

Myself, if I'm determined to do something, I can make it happen. It seems like the whole DIY/Professional debate comes down to knowing and being honest with yourself. If oodles of money was no problem for me, I'd be happy to pay someone else to do it.


Just thought I would throw my wisdom and experience in. All depending on one's personal variables, I feel that DIY applies to people wishing to take care of a small number of hairs - that is, less than ten to twenty visible - or a large project, such as pubic hair. In the latter case, you are gambling that you have the hand-eye coordination, steady hands, and persistence to become a talented electrologist.

Do not underestimate the speed difference between a newbie and a good electrologist. Someone like James is able to epilate a hair every two to three seconds. When you first start you will spend minutes on each hair. That is a ratio of about a hundred to one. At my fastest I could get down to about five hairs a minute. It took me about fifty hours to get to that level.

Still, the privacy and convenience was important, and I completely cleared my wife's pubic areas (mind the terminology - I would be surprised if any woman, besides a poorly executed transgender, to have hair in her vaginal area), front to back, plus underarms, eyebrows, and upper lip over the course of a year or two.

To get even reasonable speeds, you will need to invest about $1,500 in equipment.

Good luck!

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#39375 - 02/18/07 01:12 AM Re: Is this the best book to buy? [Re: DIY'er]
James W. Walker VII Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 8055
Loc: Buffalo NY, & Traveling the US...
I think you make a good point there. At $1,500.00 one would get faster work, while spending the same or lesser amount of money if one were removing 10,000 hairs or less.
_________________________
http://www.executiveclearance.com/beforeandafter.html
Setting a goal is not the main thing. It is deciding how you will go about achieving it and staying with that plan. --- Tom Landry
Has this site helped you? Pay it forward. Donate to keep HairTell & Hairfacts Online at http://www.hairfacts.com/feedback/support-this-site/

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#39527 - 02/22/07 07:06 AM Re: Is this the best book to buy? [Re: RedSpawn]
Eddy_G, RE, CPE, CCE Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 04/25/04
Posts: 62
Loc: B.C. Canada
These books are/were available at Prestige Electrolysis Supply when I needed them.

Prestige Electrolysis Supply
#200 - 3275 Intertech Dr.
Brookfield, WI.
53045

Phone: 1-800-783-7403

E-mail: http://www.prestigeelec.com

Hope this helps you. Regards.

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#41731 - 04/30/07 05:52 AM Re: Is this the best book to buy? [Re: Eddy_G, RE, CPE, CCE]
Cirke Offline
Contributor

Registered: 07/19/03
Posts: 36
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
If someone has an extra copy of the first edition of Michael Bono's "The Blend Method: Real World Electrology" I'd very much appreciate a private note.

After quite some searching I thought I'd found someone with stock, but it turned out that the description in the catalogue had just inadvertently been left unchanged...

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#42691 - 06/06/07 09:29 AM Re: Is this the best book to buy? [Re: Cirke]
James W. Walker VII Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 8055
Loc: Buffalo NY, & Traveling the US...
A phone call to:
Texas Electrolysis Supply
16627 Sealark Road
Houston Texas 77062
(800) 626-6025
confirmed that they have stock available for order over the phone for the current ediction of the Bono Book. It is the coveted 1st edition one must scope out Ebay for.
_________________________
http://www.executiveclearance.com/beforeandafter.html
Setting a goal is not the main thing. It is deciding how you will go about achieving it and staying with that plan. --- Tom Landry
Has this site helped you? Pay it forward. Donate to keep HairTell & Hairfacts Online at http://www.hairfacts.com/feedback/support-this-site/

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