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#45081 - 08/21/07 12:19 AM Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radio
Marthajoy Offline
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Registered: 05/27/06
Posts: 237
Loc: WASHINGTON
If anyone is interested, I have just ordered a Midland model 1001Z CB radio with the intent to try and rig the device to perform as an epilator. If others are interested, I may put up a web page showing the steps in the conversion of this unit.
This will be an interesting project for me. Operation will utilize CB channel 14. I may end up gutting a good part of the radio, but I could not even begin to purchase the parts I will use, for the price I paid for this radio. Unit and shipping came to less than $34.00 from Mogiz, LLC. I was able to download the owner manual from Midland.
Anyway, anyone let me know if they are interested in following my CB to Epilator conversion.
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Martha Montgomery, CCE
Puget Sound Electrology

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#45082 - 08/21/07 01:00 AM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radio [Re: Marthajoy]
James W. Walker VII Offline

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Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 8055
Loc: Buffalo NY, & Traveling the US...
You know we have lots of Do-Each-Other-Electrologists and DIY'ers who want to know about this. After all, we have people building boot-leg One Touches and Vectors on this board.
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Setting a goal is not the main thing. It is deciding how you will go about achieving it and staying with that plan. --- Tom Landry
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#45196 - 08/25/07 05:44 AM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radio [Re: James W. Walker VII]
Marthajoy Offline
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Registered: 05/27/06
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Update on progress:
I have ordered the CB, it is due to arrive on Monday.
I have contacted Midland, and they emailed me both the schematic and a block diagram. This is going to be a fun mod.
The first thing I want to do when the radio arrives is to document the signal levels at different stages of the transmitter.
Next I want to rig the transmitter so that it does slow thermolysis using and external pulse generator. This conversion is very easy. I will use the ext. speaker jack to feed the pulse into the radio. It will trigger the power transistor with a negative pulse on the emitter. The output transistor can easily handle even Microflash speeds based on its power ratings. But initially, I want to keep the power level down and compare the 27 mhz with my 13.5 mhz clareblend ultrablend. That will give me an exact comparison on the effects of 13.5 mhz vs. 27 mhz. After completing that checkout, I wish to remove a lot of the unused parts, and to build a galvanic circuit for the radio. This will permit Blend to be performed using 27 mhz.
What I would like my final project to be, is to up the power ratings and to control setting with a real computer using the usb port. All setting will be controllable from the computer. This will be something that could even be marketed. Settings would be able to be save in client files along with time and anything else one would want. I have some programable IC's being sent to me to experiment with.
Anyway, that is a little update. One will certainly be able to make a 27 mhz thermolysis epilator for less than $100 and very little more for a blend unit, but the blend will require more time, as lots of parts will need to be removed, to make space for new circuitry.
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Martha Montgomery, CCE
Puget Sound Electrology

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#45249 - 08/28/07 12:30 AM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: Marthajoy]
Marthajoy Offline
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For anyone interested. Today, I recieved my Midland 1001Z CB. I took some initial level measurements. Without modification, I get about 30 vp-p at the antenna terminal. With this level, thermolysis epilation normally will occur in a half Second to a little over one second. If doing thermolysis on yourself i.e. DIY then you can probably get by using manual keying of the microphone.
If you wish to work with a foot switch, a switch can be wired to a microphone connector between pins 3 and 1.
Now about probes. I find a vast difference in the effectiveness of different probes at this frequency. The worst cords to use, that I have on hand were the Clareblend BNC probes. I have two different probes, and the signal loss on both went down to only 6 volts peak to peak at the tip. Using Dectro probes for my cleo or other 13.5 mhz epilators yealded about 15 volts p-p at the tip. I had modified one probe to use a BNC connect, and another one with just a banana plug for Glavanic use in my experiementing. My recommendation, would be to use a UHF to SMA adapter on the output of the CB and then to use a cable made for the Apilus Platinum. The cables that are in use for the 13.5 mhz machines are just not very good at 27 mhz. Epilation will occur very quickly, but at these levels it is managable for those wishing to use something on themselves. I will recommend having a timed circuit before suggesting anyone even consider using it on anyone other than themselves. Manually, you will feel the heat being generated and will know when you have generated enough heat.
I wish to get this probe loss problem out of the way, before I run a test to see if 27 mhz is really much faster and less painful the 13.5 mhz. I will probably, search for my own cable and make up my own probes if possible. But for those who would like to get started using something cheap, and readily available, this is something someone may want to consider. It is not as capable as my Cleo but RF wise it is almost as capable as the thermolysis on my Clareblend/Ultoblend Ultrablend.
Shortly, I will pick up my IC chips and get started on building a pulse generator. Also, remember for now, that the frequency authorized for medical use is Channel 14. Just make certain that you are on that channel.
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Martha Montgomery, CCE
Puget Sound Electrology

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#45473 - 09/02/07 03:31 AM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: Marthajoy]
Marthajoy Offline
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Registered: 05/27/06
Posts: 237
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Update on using a CB radio as is - for an epilator:
I have found that hairs do release very quickly at 27 mhz. With the levels observed on a scope, I expected it to take about half a second for epilation to occur. What I have found is even a brief duration of about 1/10 of a second can cause spots which initially do not appear, but later appear and last up to a week or so. This indicates that even a tenth of a second at 27 mhz with level that would take longer with a 13.5 mhz machine does indicate its timing may be to long.
My recommendations are that if anyone is considering using a CB without modification, to use it that way only in areas less visable until you have enough experience with the machine to progress.
It is true that with very quick pulsing of RF energy, that I was not even able to feel the heat. It is when I felt the heat, that I later see tiny raised areas which seem to last for a lot longer than my experience with 13.5 mhz. There is certainly enough energy in a CB radio to kill hair. It is now up to controlling that energy so as to not over-treat.
Next project step is making a pulse generator to perform accurate timing operations.
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Martha Montgomery, CCE
Puget Sound Electrology

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#45477 - 09/02/07 05:43 AM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: Marthajoy]
James W. Walker VII Offline

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Posts: 8055
Loc: Buffalo NY, & Traveling the US...
Now you see why the Apilus Platinum does NOT allow continuous foot pedal operation. One can only make a setting and even if the foot pedal is being used, it delivers the measured dose of energy, not a steady stream until the foot pedal is released.
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Setting a goal is not the main thing. It is deciding how you will go about achieving it and staying with that plan. --- Tom Landry
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#45482 - 09/02/07 11:15 PM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: James W. Walker VII]
Marthajoy Offline
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Registered: 05/27/06
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Yes, James,
I must admit, that I was very skeptical that there was really that much difference between 13.5 mhz and 27 mhz. But even my first most basic tests are proving there really is a major difference between the two frequencies.
I have ordered parts to make a little circuit card that uses a simple CD4013 chip that will serve as a one shot pulse generator for my next step. Parts for two circuits only cost about $4 from Allied Electronics. So that works out to about $2 apiece. The volume control on the CB is perfect for the timing control. I am pleasantly surprised at the power capabilites of the output transistor in this unit. It is rated at 4 watts at 12 volts, but it is capable of 80 volts, and is rated for 10 watts. The output on the Clareblend Ultrablend is only rated of 7 watts. Its maximum voltage collector-emitter is 65 volts. So this CB has components rated higher than the Clareblend.
I really need to see about ordering a probe used with the Apilus Platinum. Trying to purchase good RF cable in short lengths looks like it is going to be difficult. Also I am finding it difficult to find the connectors used on the end of the probes for inserting probes. I really wonder who makes them. But like apilus, I would most certainly keep the SMA connector for cable to unit attachment.
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Martha Montgomery, CCE
Puget Sound Electrology

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#45483 - 09/03/07 01:36 AM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: Marthajoy]
James W. Walker VII Offline

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Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 8055
Loc: Buffalo NY, & Traveling the US...
Need I remind you that Texas Electrolysis Supply could have you a Platinum cord in a jiffy?

One of Apilus' main issues was the class of electrologists trained to "find the edge of the client's pain threashold" when creating a treatment setting. Can you imagine the damage a Platinum would dish out is it were set high enough to actually HURT?
_________________________
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Setting a goal is not the main thing. It is deciding how you will go about achieving it and staying with that plan. --- Tom Landry
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#45484 - 09/03/07 02:53 AM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: James W. Walker VII]
Marthajoy Offline
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James,
Yes, Texas Electrolysis Supply is my major supplier along with Dectro California. Either one supplies my needs very quickly. I have ordered some things through Prestige, but delivery seems to take just a while longer. But much much faster than Electric Spa which took 3 weeks just to get me some sample uniprobes and a H forcep. But, to their credit they did offer free samples.
This is Labor day weekend, so I will hold off for the holiday. I do not want to be in too much of a hurry. I like to think things out a bit, and to work in stages. This project allows me to do just that.
There are even more options that I could add to the project as well. If I key the epilator as I plan at the final output stage, I can also make a little audio oscillator and feed the mic input and produce modulation like I believe the VMC does.
Also James, about pain - The reason that it hurts less is because the heat generated is maintained in a very small space. If however, someone not trained in the proper probe placement, happens to fire off the epilator where the nerves are in the follicle instead of at the bottom where the papilla resides, then they will really experience what pain is. I really believe that someone wanting to use this modality, really should know what they are doing. They should be able to look at a hair and know what stage of growth the hair was in, and to be able to be able to tell how deep the sebacceous gland, by observing the moisture layer around the hair. They should be able to identify what areas have cells capable of generating new hairs. Someone should not just purchase or make an epilator and figure that is all they need. But if someone is willing to put in some time learning what is going on, it should not take $8000 to purchase a good 27 mhz epilator.
I really do believe that Dectro is a wonderful company. I do believe that Apilus is probably the best machine out there. For someone just starting out, I believe they are the way to go. I back that up, with my own experience. That is why I went to them for training. You will not find an easier machine to operate - especially for a beginner.
I for one, have always believed in providing as much versatility as possible in anything I use. When I worked at Boeing, I helped to keep every available option available for the operator to choose from. On my final version of the conversion, that is what I wish to strive for in this project. All parameters available on a computer screen that an operator can choose from. Manufacturers have done a wonderful job of making something very portable and simple to use. My idea might not be as portable - being that it will require a personal computer like a laptop to interface with it. But it will not have the costs and breakdowns associated with touch membraine switches. Those processes are just out of reach for Do it yourself construction.
Personally, I think that prices will come down after other companies also start marketing 27 mhz machines as well. We will see, or at least I hope that happens. I will readily admit that I am so glad that electrolysis as a field has not remained still over the last dozen years. Knowing what it was like for me going through electrolysis that long ago, really makes me appreciate the differences being offered today.
_________________________
Martha Montgomery, CCE
Puget Sound Electrology

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#45492 - 09/03/07 10:48 AM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: Marthajoy]
James W. Walker VII Offline

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Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 8055
Loc: Buffalo NY, & Traveling the US...
Buyer Beware: Prestige Electrolysis Supply is NOTORIOUS for botching orders, sending you something other than you ordered, and refusing to make good. I don't know anyone who has used them for a year without having this experience. They even had the nerve to argue that I had ordered a WOMAN'S Lab Coat with my name on it, instead of admitting that they either could not get a men's coat, or were just so used to serving women only that they just typed in the usual F in the computer when filling out the order to their subcontractor. I still have a delux FEMALE lab coat, still in the plastic with MY name on it because they patently refuse to admit their error.

Now this is just the most egregious case, but almost every time I ordered with them, at least ONE thing on my order (I don't make orders without it being a list) would come out botched (typoes in the data processing dept perhaps?) and I would receive something that I did not order, (but had paid for) and would be missing something that I had ordered. Their cheerful customer service response was always the same, "We can go on and order that other item you missed now, what credit card do you want to put it on?"

Long story short, I don't know anyone who has not been burned by that experience with them at least once.

On the other subject, I don't see any indication that there will be a crowd of 27mhz machines coming to market any time soon. All Apilus' competitors are sticking to the line that 27mhz either doesn't exist, or that it doesn't offer anything to the treatment, or that it is just a promotional gimmick that has no actual value to the industry other than giving them an excuse to charge more since no one else is bothering to do it.

I wish I had you there for some of the arguments I have had so that you could talk the technical talk better than I could. In one combative conversation, a certain Apilus representative was challenged "First 13mhz, now 27, why didn't you do 54mhz if higher frequencies are so good?" The simple reply was, because the higher the frequency, the more you must be concerned with the control of the treatment energy, and the powersupply issues increase. It made sense to me, and you seem to be finding the same thing.

Oh yeah, and they also had a time of it trying to fit everything into the shell they wanted to use for the epilator when making the Platinum. Anyone handling a Platinum, SX-500 and Cleo can instantly tell the machines get heavier as the price rises, and since I have seen them all "open case" I know there are no lead weights in there to make that difference. All the extra weight is extra parts.
_________________________
http://www.executiveclearance.com/beforeandafter.html
Setting a goal is not the main thing. It is deciding how you will go about achieving it and staying with that plan. --- Tom Landry
Has this site helped you? Pay it forward. Donate to keep HairTell & Hairfacts Online at http://www.hairfacts.com/feedback/support-this-site/

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#45504 - 09/03/07 06:47 PM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: James W. Walker VII]
Marthajoy Offline
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Registered: 05/27/06
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James;
Until, I tried the 27 mhz on myself, I include myself among the skeptics. I have worked with microwave frequencies, and electrical characteristics do change as frequency increases. Cables loose more energy, even small circuit traces can become antenna and radiate to other parts of circuit boards etc. I will try and explain the power supply part of the Problem. If a certain amount of energy is required in order to generate enough heat to destroy a hair, and you then decrease the amount of time that amount of energy is present, you must then increase the amount of energy in that shorter time period. What that means is that you need a Power Supply that can deliver a large amount of energy very quickly, but spends most of its time just idling by with just supplying power to electronics in kind of standby mode. One can either built a super super heavy duty power supply to be able to handle the highest currents available at any time, but that power supply would require much more current from an outlet. Another option is to build a supply which has a super amount of capacitance. These Capacitors store energy and can release it very quickly. Another consideration is that if the resistance stays the same, than the voltage must increase in order to deliver that energy in that amound of time. My cleo reaches voltages of 160vp-p at 99%. At that level it is possible to get enough energy to kill hairs in a time very close to a hundredth of a second.
The output of the CB surprised me with 35-40vp-p on its output. I thought it might be limited to its 13.5 volt power supply. But that falls right in the operating range of my Clareblend Ultrablend range. One means of experimenting with output levels is by means of a Step Up transformer. A step up transformer, ups the output voltage while decreasing the current. It does not increase power by any means, but does alter the voltage and current. I have read on the internet that the impedance/resistance of human skin is about 950 ohms. Yet a CB is designed for a 50 ohm load. One way to correct for that would be to use a simple 1:16 balun. With such a transformer 20 volts of rf now becomes 320vp-p. This would be twice the maximum voltage out that my cleo can handle. Current decreases, but that is really what we want anyway. Very very low current. And fast switching time. So modifying the output stage is advantagous. But part of what I need to check out, is if the transformers work at very fast pulses, as they rely on inductance in their operation. But before changing the output stage, I want a means of generating a very quick one shot pulse. Parts for such a circuit will shortly be on their way to me.
Here is a URL of a place to purchase such transformers:
http://www.communication-concepts.com/hf_transformers.htm
You may be able to see, things can get out of hand very easily with these kinds of levels. That is why I will take things slowly, and make certain things are working as they should before proceeding.
Some DIYers might be more comfortable, just keeping the voltage where it is and just using Flash timing. So I will work with the easiest mode first. Just give the unit controlled timing curcuit and that can be done. For Micro and Pico Flash, that should only be for someone really knowing what they are doing.
As far as weight on units. The power supplies are the heaviest items in them. IC's do not weigh a whole lot. Transformers tend to weigh a lot. Large Capacitors can add some weight, but when compaired to Transformers, their weight is minor. I might venture a guess here, but when using multiple pulses on an apilus machine, it is known that subsequent pulses after the first pulse will be about 20% less. This is more than likely due to the power supplies capacitors not having reached full charge by the time the subsequent pulses are delivered. So if you want short durations between pulses, again the Power Supply must be beefed up. Thus again more weight. The power supply for the CB is external, but might require a heavier duty supply than I am currently using. I will find out as I get more into the final stages of my project, where I will want the pico flash timing.
Thank you so much on the warning about Prestige. The American Institute of Education in California, I believe uses them a lot. But Texas Electrolysis Supply has been pretty good by me so far.

One added thing I am beginning to think about now. Whether to add a blend option for the CB mod. As I said, I expected much slower epilation times stock but now I realize I need to drastically reduce the RF level out for blend, otherwise the RF will just vaporize the Lye rather than just warm it a little. That can be done easily enough with just a adjustable regulator supplying the output stage, or by decreasing the pulse drive if directly pulsing that stage. There are several options. But I now see, that power will certainly have to be dropped in order to offer a blend option.
Again, somewhat just thinking out loud here. With using an existing transmitter, much of the design work has already been done. Parts layout has already been perfected and there is no need to redesign the RF oscillators and drivers. There is absolutely no way, that I could begin to design even one stage for the price of the complete CB. All I need to do now is to go in and make the output controllable for the purpose of hair removal. The major design work has already been done.
For that matter, 54 mhz could also be done, as that resides near the amateur radio 6 meter band. But most people need a Amateur Radio license in order to purchase such a radio. The 27 mhz band does not have such a requirement. So it is much easier for someone to get ahold of the transmitter than it would be for them to get a 54 mhz transmitter. Besides that, 27 mhz CB radios are much more mass produced, leading to extremely cheap prices. One is not going to be able to get a 6 meter transmitter for the 30 or so dollars that I spent. So in keeping things cheap 27 mhz is the way to go. It is cheaper to make the CB conversion than it would be to even purchase a amateur radio 20 meter (14 mhz) transmitter and modify that. One again a license is needed, and again prices are higher as not as many units are sold. So from a DIY perspective, it makes logical sense to use what has already been developed and to just make the modifications that are needed. Yes, there may be some tweeking as I get further along in the modification, but I really believe this is a viable project.


_________________________
Martha Montgomery, CCE
Puget Sound Electrology

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#45651 - 09/08/07 06:56 AM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: Marthajoy]
Marthajoy Offline
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Registered: 05/27/06
Posts: 237
Loc: WASHINGTON
Everyone,
This is why I take things slow in my testing. My 50 ohm load has a centertap to allow messurements at 50 percentile. When taking my initial RF output levels, the scope was moved to this 50% tap, but I forgot to double my measurements. Tonight I went back and double checked my measurements and found my mistake. So instead of 35 volts P-P Rf level, the true RF level out of the CB is 70 Volts Peak to Peak. This is more than I can even get out of my Clareblend Ultrablend. I removed the microphone from the cord, and used a function generator to serve as the microphone switch. What I found is that from the microphone jack I can Key the transmitter at less than 0.0001 seconds pulse width. This without even modifying the output stage. So this is what my first Thermolysis RC conversion is going to look like. Microphone removed and cable attached to a bud box. Wire to turn receiver on - Red - will instead become V+ to power the circuit that will be installed in bud box. The box will have a jack for a foot pedal and one or two controls. Initially, I will probably only use one IC which will deturmine the amount of time the unit will be on for each foot press. If I decide to had a second chip and a "AND" circuit, I can easily give periods of pause in the RF energy. This can easily be accomplished with even 555 or 556 ic chips. I am still considering how I want to control the RF level output. 70v P-P is on the high side of most of Apilus's predeturmined settings. Energy units are almost 500 for a pulse duration of just 0.1 seconds. So one can see how too much energy can quickly be delivered. Parts are still pending delivery to me, so I am right now waiting on my parts. I probably will need to build a adjustable power supply to power just the final transistor. That will probably be step two of the first mod.
_________________________
Martha Montgomery, CCE
Puget Sound Electrology

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#45664 - 09/09/07 06:00 AM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: Marthajoy]
Marthajoy Offline
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Registered: 05/27/06
Posts: 237
Loc: WASHINGTON
Everyone;
Today I recieved the parts that I ordered. I built up two circuits using little printed circuit cards that are about 1.5 x 1.5 inches. The boards only cost a couple of dollars and are big enough for the circuitry required for the timer.
One note of concern on my project is that because the timer is operating so quickly, a pulse is generated both when pressing on the footswitch and again when the footswitch is released. I may want to look around for other circuits that might not have this problem, but for now, I think since this is for the DIYer, as long as they know about the difficulty and wait till after removing the probe before releasing the footswitch it works fine. I am changing component values for the timing because I would like to use the volume control for timing and it is 10k ohms, whereas the schematic is using a one megohm variable resister. For a maximum timing period of 0.1 seconds the capacitor should be about 10 microfarads. I now have a 47 microfarad cap and it gives me about 0.4 seconds. With the 10 kohm pot turned to minimum resistance, the fastest pulse is about 0.001 seconds. Also instead of using the Q output of the flipflop, I am using the not Q output - in other words - pin 12 instead of Pin 13. This produces a negative going pulse which triggers the transmitter wonderfully without having to go through another transistor to reverse the signal. Might as well use what is built in the chip. Something else to consider for the circuit is that the footswitch is switch B+ or 13.5 volts and so you will want to make sure the jack is insulated. If built in a blastic box, ther is no concern, but if using a metal box, keep in mind that without insulating the jack, the box will have B+ on the chassis. I have only spent about $10 for everything for this circuit so far. For someone wanting something very cheap, this should fit the bill. More info to come.
_________________________
Martha Montgomery, CCE
Puget Sound Electrology

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#45679 - 09/09/07 10:51 PM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: Marthajoy]
Marthajoy Offline
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Registered: 05/27/06
Posts: 237
Loc: WASHINGTON
I have finally initiated a webpage for this project:

http://marthajoy7.clearwire.net/CBconversion/

This circuit will work, especially with someone who wishes to use the two pulse technique. I found that since the foot is on the switch for longer then the pulse duration, it also give another pulse when the foot is removed from the switch. I may look into being able to fix this possible problem, but for the two pulse technique it will work wonderfully. Insert to depth, put foot on footswitch, withdraw probe a little bit and take foot off of footswitch. Then finally fully withdraw probe. A different pulse generator that I would like to use, may not have this reaction. It uses switches to set its pulse durations, instead of a variable resistor like I am initially using to check things out. With my current setup, I am able to generate pulses faster than 0.001 and as long as 0.5 seconds by using a 47 microfarad capacitor, and a 10K ohm variable resistor.
Anyway, I wanted to let people know that I now have a webpage set up for this conversion.
_________________________
Martha Montgomery, CCE
Puget Sound Electrology

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#45717 - 09/11/07 05:16 AM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: Marthajoy]
Mantaray Offline
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Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 711
Loc: San Diego, California
Martha, you are truly unique. Although I haven't had the time I want to keep up with the board, I have read through this thread and visited your site. I think it's absolutely great what you are doing. Too bad NoHair doesn't jump in on this thread and try doing this too. He was such a big advocate of DIY, and DIY machines.

I was actually talking to Dr. Heimlich at Texas Electrology Supply today. We had a few good things to share about the machines he's outbidded me on. It was actually fun talking to my great deny-er of some really good machines, and telling him of the two I snaked from under him. Anyway, he was telling me the history of all these machines. He's been in this business for some time and he really is a wealth of information. I urge you to call up T.E.S. in Houston, order some small supplies, and try to get Dr. Heimlich on the phone. Actually, I think there's only one other person that answers their phone, and they are both extremely nice people. Anyway, He was telling me about all these ideas that have been 'borrowed' from one company to another, that the 27 MHz epilator idea is really about 35 years old. Apilus went back to the old Proteus 3700 Epilator (I think it was the 3700) for the technology. They just upgraded it, and then borrowed from Kree the winding concept to boost the power output. So really, there's ol' Apilus borrowing techology again, like the way they took techology from the Silhouet-Tone Sequentium 328 to design the Apilus Senior motherboard, and they really didn't even do it as good. The Sequentium 328 still has better galvanic delivery and stairstepping capability. They were sued in litigation for that. I have an Apilus, and god knows that I think good of Apilus. They conduct research and testing, they give to the schools, and they try to accomodate customers on the phone. The Apilus is neat, it's pleasant, it's fast, it's accurate, and easy to use, but I still want credit to be given to these earlier pioneers that developed the technology, and did it better with less resources.

It's good that you're doing what your doing. I hope you upgrade the website to guide novice electrical techs on the construction of a 27 MHz system. I may actually attempt this myself. Try getting ahold of Proteus, maybe someone still has schematics that you could use.

Mantaray

Ps: Oh C'mon James, were the size 14 shoes that went with it an accident too, huh? HAHA! I'm totally kidding here of course. (in german psychologist voice): 'Deed zyour mozzah beat zyou? Deed zyour fazzah beat zyou? Vhat vas zyour earliesk memoriesk?'
_________________________
Mantaray

Electrolysis, since 1875

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#45719 - 09/11/07 07:26 AM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: Mantaray]
Marthajoy Offline
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Mantaray;
You could very well be a benefit to this project. I know that I tend to speak over the heads of many people. Not on purpose, but probably because I have worked with electronics for so long, that I forget what it is like to just be starting out.
If I start to get too technical, please ask me to try and simplify my statements.
I need to take some pictures, to show how things are progressing. I may take one of the pulse generators that I built and mount it to the side that has the speaker, permanently wire for electrolysis use only, and use the 4 pin microphone cord to run to a foot switch. There are four connections on that jack that are not connected to ground, and so it is better suited for that operation. Since the circuit will now be inside the unit, power, ground and signal locations are easily available.
I was thinking initially that I would use the volume control, but I want to look into possibly using the Rf and Squelch control for the pulse generator. I need to figure out how to remove the knobs and the front of the chassis, so that I can get to the parts easier.
If I wish to try and emulate the Apilus synchro modality, I need to use two different pulse generators and key only when both are either positive or negative depending on how I choose to drive the transmitter. One pulse generator would continually produce fast pulses, while the other would set the overall duration length. thus one can have hundreds of very quick pulses during one cycle of the second pulse generator that is triggered by the foot switch. One knob would control the number of pulses in a given time period, and the other which is triggered would set the overall duration length of time. So the two knobs together like the RF and Squelch controls may work well for those functions.
Am I getting too technical. I am trying to keep things simple. Pictures obviously will help. Maybe I can make a picture, print it out and label the picture and then scan it into the computer in order to post. Can I assume that anyone attempting this project would know how to solder?
After this is done, I want to proceed with making an adjustable power supply. I will probably build that conversion into the power supply with a third lead to power just the final stage. If I put it within the CB, it would cut the voltage down for the final transistor by about 1.5 volts and maximum power would not be available without more modifications. Unless I went to the trouble to make a DC to DC conversion which is more complicated that I wanted to get into for this project. By building the adjustable supply withing the power supply, I can tap the voltage before it is regulated to 13.5 volts and can actually make it something like 5-20 volts on the final stage, and still keep the rest of the unit stabilized at 13.5vdc.
I could really use your knowledge of previous epilators. As I do not have that experience in my knowledge bank.
_________________________
Martha Montgomery, CCE
Puget Sound Electrology

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#46004 - 09/23/07 03:50 AM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: Marthajoy]
bryce Offline
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Registered: 11/04/06
Posts: 193
This is awesome! I just wanted to say that as a fellow electronic geek! I look forward to your updates. <3 MJoy

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#46025 - 09/24/07 01:09 PM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: bryce]
Cirke Offline
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Registered: 07/19/03
Posts: 36
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
Marthajoy, I also look forward to your updates! I can't wait to build an unit myself... Thank you!

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#46033 - 09/25/07 01:17 AM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: Cirke]
Marthajoy Offline
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Sorry for the slow-ness of any updates. I have been under the weather for the last week or so. Hopefully, I will return to full health again shortly. At least it does not appear to be pneumonia. I will soon hopefully be feeling well enough to resume this project. I do appreciate hearing from others interested in this little project that I have undertaken.
I will make note, that I have used the CB without modification on myself, and it does work. The down side is that it is so fast, the manually, the tendancy is to overtreatment and taking a week or two for skin to return to normal. That is with keying the microphone as fast as possible manually. I have found the keying circuit works well, using a 10 Microfarad cap for C and a 10 Kohm pot for pulse duration, That would allow adjustment of time from 1/10000 sec to about 1/10 sec. The down side is that I get a pulse both when depressing the foot switch and releasing it. I am considering a second circuit used to trigger th CD4013. I have a schematic for a 555 timer chip that should work.
I am also considering using a couple of Nand gates to form a multivibrator so that pulse width/ratio can also be adjusted.
The CB certainly has the power to perform hair removal, just experiementing to find the cheapest-easiest - safe way to accomplish what is needed.
But to be honest with everyone, this last week has not accomplished a thing as I have really not felt well.
_________________________
Martha Montgomery, CCE
Puget Sound Electrology

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#46174 - 10/02/07 05:37 AM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: Marthajoy]
Marthajoy Offline
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Anyone Interested:
I have posted some changes to the website. Namely, I believe that I have a fix for the Foot Switch problem and also have decided on a circuit for the Variable Power Supply to be able to adjust the power output.
I have also included a circuit that will allow for multiple pulses in a given overall timing period. I am making some changes to the timing circuits as I have found that the Squelch and the Sensitivity controls are 40K ohms instead of the 10K ohms that I thought they were. With C being equal to 10 Microfarads the longest pulse would be about 0.4 seconds. If I make it 20 microfarads it would become about 0.8 seconds. The more I lengthen the maximum timing period, the more critical adjustments will become. I will probably set the minimum timing period at something like 0.01 seconds. I plan on the 555 circuits timing to be much quicker than that and probably in the order of 0.005 seconds or less. That is a frequency of only 200 hz, so it is very low frequency for this chip.
Anyway, this is a bit of a progress report.

http://marthajoy7.clearwire.net/CBconversion/
_________________________
Martha Montgomery, CCE
Puget Sound Electrology

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#46176 - 10/02/07 07:54 AM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: Marthajoy]
caliagent Offline
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Registered: 04/23/07
Posts: 35
Loc: SD, CA
Wow this all very interesting, I wish it didn't fly over my head soo fast, but you could theoretically make these devises and sell them to locals for DIY and that would only be for the adamant at home DIY. Not meaning to sell to anyone who had no knowledge of the fundamentals of electrolysis. But hey I'm always thinking of a way to make a profit. Marthajoy you are now the Hairtell resident Macgiver.

Great job.

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#46190 - 10/02/07 08:58 PM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: caliagent]
Marthajoy Offline
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Catiagent;
I wish to try and keep things simple, but I realize that I am probably the exception on here with the electronics background that I have. These first project steps that I am taking, is basically to prove or disprove whether 27 mhz is better than 13.5 mhz at hair removal. In order to accomplish the test, I need a 27 mhz machine that can duplicate the timing and power levels of a 13.5 mhz machine. That is where I am headed at this point.
If things do prove out that 27 mhz is indeed faster and less painfull, my desire is to make a computerized epilator. By that I mean a epilator that attaches to a full computer with software that talks to the epilator telling it what settings to use. There are actually commercial devices being sold that already allow this to be accomplished easily. You can buy Variable Resistors that the computer can step 256 steps from min to max and back again. So instead of a control with a knob, it just talks to the usb port on a computer and you can accurately set the control every time to 1/256 of a rotation.
These settings could then be stored on a conventional computer and all settings could be printed as desired. Basically the epilator would consist of power supply, converted CB with controls removed. Epilator controls with USB adapter and the RF output. It would be very plain looking, but all settings would be controllable from a computer via the usb port.
that is something that I feel might be worth marketing. It is something that could be simple or comprehensive in what it can perform, depending on what the operator wants from the machine.
These beginning projects, are being put online, mostly for those who do not have much in the way of money, but who are willing to invest time in learning both electronics and Electrolysis.
This morning I am beginning to wonder if I really need the 4013 flip flop, and instead just use a 556 and the 4011 quad 2 input nand gate. The second half of the 556 could perform what the multivibrator is doing in regards to multiple pulses. I know, I probably just went over many heads.
A 556 chip is a chip that has two 555 circuits in one chip. A 4011 chip is a chip that has four individual 2 input And circuits that become inverted on the output. That means that when both inputs go high the output of that gate goes low. If either of the inputs are low then the output remains high. What we need to trigger the CB is a low. So this works great. I just need to try things out before proceeding.
The 4013 chip is a chip that has two circuits known as Flip Flops, and I was initially use it as the one shot timer. But I encountered the problem that one, trigger was tied to power supply instead of ground and when foot is on switch longer than the pulse it gives two pulses. It can be used this way if the operator knows of the situation, but feel that a pulse only when depressed is prefered. So now is a bit of experiementing. But I do know for a fact, this is going to work now, it is just getting the circuitry where I want it.
Considering that I perform Electrolysis for a livelihood, I certainly feel it is best if someone can go to someone trained in performing electrolysis if they can. But I also realize that far too many transgendered individuals just cannot afford the costs when it comes to all the other expenses one has to pay for. So if they are willing to invest in learning, they might just make good use of something like I am making.
_________________________
Martha Montgomery, CCE
Puget Sound Electrology

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#46311 - 10/07/07 09:43 AM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: Marthajoy]
layla Offline
Contributor

Registered: 05/03/07
Posts: 27
Loc: Shanghai, China
Hi,
I'd love to help out on this project! From a hardware standpoint, I follow you on the circuitry stuff (though I'm unfamiliar with some of the ICs besides the basic 555/556 timer et al), but my experience is lacking a bit in the actual construction of power supplies (I know some theory, but I would have to do some reading (or a lot of thinking about physics) to just construct a supply from scratch, I don't have that practical implementation knowledge in my head yet. From a software perspective, and a software/hardware bridge perspective, I think I can do a lot for this project! =)
Layla

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#46319 - 10/07/07 09:13 PM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: layla]
Marthajoy Offline
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Registered: 05/27/06
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Layla;
Your help offer is appreciated. In regards to the power supply. What I have done, is to purchase a 13.8Vdc power supply from Fry's Electronics. The supply I purchased was $26.95. It is made by Samlex and the model number is RPS-1203. It is rated for 3 amps Continous and 5 amps with a 50% duty cycle. This is way more than needed to supply a little CB radio. The transformer is really rugged and there is enough room to and more circuitry.
I have just etched me my first circuit card and I need to photocopy it so that others can copy my circuit. What I will do is add another Regulator using the same transformer. This added Regulator will vary its output. I still need to purchase a few more parts but I am getting close. What I will do after completing the variable supply is to record how much the output power drops based on the reduction to the final output transistor voltage reduction. The numbers should correlate even if a different supply is used.
So this Modified RPS-1203 will have 3 banana jacks on the front.
Gnd, 13.8vdc and Adjustable voltage. It will have a potentiometer, which I am estimating at being about 2.5 Kohms to 3 Kohms. I will have resisters on each side of the Pot. to adjust both upper and lower limits. But others will be able to substitute set resisters after I determine what the set values should be.
I will make up a spreadsheet or table with the respective power vs. voltage levels and place it on my webpage.
I have played a little bit with the 555 timer circuit for the One shot, and it does trigger only when depressing the foot switch. I am now in the process of trying to interface it to the 4013 flip flop for duration timing. But I am still in the breadboarding stage on that circuitry.
I very much welcome your help.
P.S. The supply is made in China, so it might be available to you in Shanghai. Samlex Electric Co. LTD.
The address is not posted on the box.
_________________________
Martha Montgomery, CCE
Puget Sound Electrology

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#46375 - 10/11/07 06:17 AM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: Marthajoy]
Marthajoy Offline
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I have thought a bit about the electronics level of most persons that might be wanting to take advantage of this option. I now realize that probably etching their own circuit cards etc, may make it too complicated. So rather than my designing a variable power supply, I have found a kit at http://store.qkits.com which for a very resonable price will ship all the parts.
This is for a 3 amp power supply, but in reality, a one amp would probably work. But in designing the prototype I want a larger capability. But since the price is not bad, I say go for the 3 amp unit.
The transformer in the 13.8 volt power supply that I purchased at fry's and is noted on my webpage is plenty husky to power both the 13.8 volt and the Variable power supply as well. I will incorporate both within the same supply.

I am still looking around for kits that might be usable for the Pulse Generator. So far I have not found what is needed for this project.

Variable Regulator Kit 0 - 30V, 3A (#FK809): 1
Item Total: $14.95
_________________________
Martha Montgomery, CCE
Puget Sound Electrology

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#46469 - 10/14/07 04:28 AM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: Marthajoy]
Marthajoy Offline
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For anyone interested:
I now have made a preliminary Power Level Assessment using a

variable power supply vs Power Output:
Power Supply Voltage RF output Peak to Peak
1 vdc 8 vp-p
2 vdc 13 vp-p
3 vdc 18 vp-p
4 vdc 25 vp-p
5 vdc 30 vp-p
6 vdc 35 vp-p
7 vdc 40 vp-p
8 vdc 45 vp-p
9 vdc 50 vp-p
10 vdc 55 vp-p
11 vdc 60 vp-p
12 vdc 64 vp-p
13 vdc 68 vp-p

The voltage is fed to one end of RFC10 which is in the back left hand side of the radio. I unsoldered both leads of RFC10. Took the top lead which is the longest lead and bent it upwards and reinstalled RFC 10 back into its original position. The lower leads goes into the same hole that it came out of. The one closest to the back of the radio. The now open lead of RFC10 is connected to another wire that is installed into the plastic retainer for the power leads and routed out of the unit. Power connections are as follows. Original Red Wire - 13.8 volts DC positive. Black Wire to Ground of both supplies and the new wire, which for me was white goes to the variable positive supply.
For blend 1 volt is probably about all the RF energy that will be needed. Full power is going to require less than 0.1 seconds for epilation. If one wants to use manual control thermolysis, then my guess is that you would want to use no more than 7 or 8 volts for power level but I have not tried this yet, but I do know that 70vp-p lead to over-treatment.
This could be the simplest epilator conversion. You could just build the power circuit and use the mic switch for keying the power. Not a whole lot of construction needed to get to this point.
About Potentiometer values for the power supply.
A 5Kohm resister sets scale at about 1 volt to 33 volts.
a 2kohm resister should set the scale at about 1 volt to 13.5 volts.
One could use a 2kohm linear pot or if more control is desired, use a rotory switch with say a 500 ohm pot and 3 500 ohm resisters on the switch to set voltage scale. I have a 6 position switch, so if I used 5 - 500 ohm resisters and a 500 ohm pot, the total resistance would equal 3Kohms and would put the maximum voltage out of the variable power supply at about 20 vdc. Or as an alternative, I could use say resisters of 400 ohms instead of 500 and have some overlap between scales. with maximum voltage being in between the two.
P.S. one trick to get the power supply to go down to 0 volts instead of about 1 volt, is to put two power rectifiers in series with the output lead. There will be about 0.6 volts drop across each rectifier dropping supply voltage by about 1.2 vdc.
The kit is designed for full bridge Rectification. The Transformer in the power supply in which I am installing it in has a center tap, and so only two rectifiers instead of four will be needed for full rectification. Three leads will need to be wired from the transformer to the kit inputs. Hot, hot and centertap for ground. The remaining 2 rectifiers will work wonderfully for this voltage drop as they are rated at full 3 amps.
I will be able to give more details when my kit arrives and I get it installed in my supply.
Anyway, just a little update. I have not as yet updated my website with this information, as my server is updating their system and I cannot get onto my pages.
_________________________
Martha Montgomery, CCE
Puget Sound Electrology

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#46489 - 10/15/07 04:29 AM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: Marthajoy]
Marthajoy Offline
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Registered: 05/27/06
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I am wondering what others on here thinks;
I have come across a professional function/pulse generator that sells for about $280. This generator seems to have everything that this project needs triggering/gating wise. It is even controlled in a way that I think is easier for an electrologist. Rather than variables for frequency which an operator would have to transpose to time, the controls are Pulse Width and Pulse Spacing. It can invert the output which is what the converted CB requires - I.E. a negative going pulse.
With this generator, vertually any pulse modality could be set up including syncro at 27 mhz.
I will continue working on the little circuit namely the 555 & 4013 trigger circuit. But for the cost of this device, it really does add a whole lot to the project. If one considers that they may spend $100 for the cb conversion the addition of even $300 still brings the cost to $400. Yes that is getting into the range that one might be able to pick up a used epilator on Ebay. That is why I am wondering what others on here think. Would the operation be too complicated for most? Information about the generator can be found at:
http://www.globalspecialties.com/4001.html
_________________________
_________________________
Martha Montgomery, CCE
Puget Sound Electrology

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#46492 - 10/15/07 05:48 AM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: Marthajoy]
Marthajoy Offline
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I will post some information on settings that Flash and Thermolysis generally are for different areas of the body, since books general do not give these details.

Thermolysis
Chin area Durations 0.06 - 0.16 with voltages of 60 vp-p to 70 vp-p
Neck area Durations 0.06 - 0.16 with voltages of 63vp-p to 67vp-p
Eyebrows Durations 0.04 - 0.16 With voltages of 60vp-p to 66vp-p
Upper Lip Durations 0.04 - 0.16 with voltages of 57vp-p to 70vp-p
Under Arm Durations 0.08 - 0.2 with levels of 57vp-p to 70vp-p
Chest Durations 0.06 - 0.16 with levels of 60vp-p to 70vp-p
Pubic Area Durations 0.08 - 0.18 with levels of 58vp-p to 72vp-p
Legs Durations 0.06 - 0.18 with levels of 62vp-p to 70vp-p

This is kind of a rough guide as time increases power drops a bit then slowly increase until making another duration step.
Generally start at lower levels of duration and levels and make adjustments as needed. Use of insulated probes allows levels to be lowered a little bit as energy is more concentrated at the tip. These numbers are for a machine at 13.5 mhz. We will see how much affect the increase in frequency makes.

My Clareblend Ultrablend is also using 13.5 mhz and its Flash mode is in Tenths of a Second. I have found that the meter dial does nothing more than to indicate how far the knob is turned. The Output transistor is limited to no more the 65vp-p and its levels in the operating range varies from 15vp-p to near 60vp-p Turning the know past the green area does not cause any added voltage level and it fact does tend to drop. The manual has suggested timing periods of 3-6 tenths of a second. With these durations I would expect most people to use about 30vp-p to 40vp-p true level.
I will try and post a table about energy levels if people are interested.
_________________________
Martha Montgomery, CCE
Puget Sound Electrology

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#46620 - 10/19/07 06:50 PM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: Marthajoy]
Marthajoy Offline
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Everyone interested;
This project does seem to be taking a bit of a twist. Instead of trying to provide a circuit for pulsing the CB conversion, the modification is going to be to use computer sound card to key the timing period. By using a sound wave editor it is possible to edit your own timing periods. I have compared the sound card outputs on a scope and the reproductions are wonderful. The circuit to convert a sound wave to key a transistor to turn on is very simple. Amplitude of the sound wave does not matter as long as it is sufficient to turn on a 2n3904 transistor. Which amounts to about 0.8vdc or so as some energy is loss in the resistor. Basically, feed sound channel into a bridge rectifier, positive voltage goes to about a 10 ohm resistor to the base of the 2N3904. The collector of the 2N3904 goes to the white wire that was attached to the microphone switch. The emitter ties to Ground and to the shield on the mic cable. This will only need mono sound capabilities, so if one wants a tone while epilation is taking affect, than the other sound channel will be left available for a speaker.
The program that I have been experiementing with is the FlexiMusic Wave Editor but I am sure there are other porgrams out there that can serve as well. If one selects new waveform, they can choose as fast as one second. They can then expand the time display and make waveform changes to thousandths and possibly ten thousandths of a second. I suggest using the maximum frequency of 20Khz for the frequency for the switching transistor.
In order to use a footswitch however, changes needed to be considered. One can either purchase a USB footswitch, or a thought that I had, is to take a wireless mouse and remove its trackball. Install a jack wired to the left button and then plug a conventional footswitch into the side of the mouse. On the sound program, leave the curser over the run button and then anytime the footswitch is depressed the program should run causing the CB conversion epilator to key for the duration of the sound wave.

I am wondering what others think of this idea?
_________________________
Martha Montgomery, CCE
Puget Sound Electrology

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#46630 - 10/20/07 03:35 AM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: Marthajoy]
Marthajoy Offline
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Well, I could not find an edit key, so I guess I have to post another message. I also just checked out some free software called Audacity. Here is the download URL;
http://audacity.sourceforge.net/download/beta_windows
It is from our good linux friends at sourceforge.
On timing, it has options to milliseconds and even can do to samples if someone really wants to get down to timing. I think once I get used to Audacity, I may actually like it better than FlexiMusic. Anyway, for those short of funds. it seems costs are about as follows.
CB Radio about $40
13.8vdcPower Supply $27
Variable power supply kit $13
USB Footswitch $40
Misc parts ie knobs, ind parts etc say $20
Dectro Platinum probe holder $40

Thus the cost for a 27 mhz thermolysis epilator via CB conversion can be had for less than $200.
There are 5 leds on the CB that indicate rf energy levels. These can be used to give a indication of how much p-p energy is being used. Also, contrary to Clareblend epilator, these LED's do give true indication, if you lose the output transistor, none of the LED's will light. I would probably suggest some form of volt meter be used with the variable power supply in order to accurately set the RF level. If not using a pot different then supplied, then get a second pot of say 100 ohms or so and put in series so that it can be used to fine tune the voltage. The parts to control the timing from a computer sound card came to about $5 at radio shack. If people want to, we can make up different files for epilation and put them online for people to use. Well, Anyone interested.
I still have not designed a galvanic circuit, but it is easy to incorporate if one wants to use a 10kohm pot from the 13.8vdc supply voltage and use a choke between the pot and the probe connector - namely the UHF output connector on the CB.

Another note: I did some distructive testing with my CB epilator. I wanted to know just how far I could push the final stage. Well, I took the final up to 23vdc and it lasted a little over one minute before giving out. The output level at this point was over 100 vp-p. This was with continuous keying. In epilator mode, the transistor would probably hold up fine as there is so much time inbetween pulses, and at 100vp-p you would want quick pulses. All this with the only modification being rewiring output stage for variable power output. So this output can be pushed even harder then stock, but if doing so repeatedly, then one may want to consider a better heatsink or even cooling for the transistor. It does get hot quickly at these levels. I found replacement transistors on ebay for less than $1 a piece. The stage uses a 2SC2078.

I hope people have gotten books and are learning how to use thermolysis. You are not likely to come across a better deal than this.

_________________________
Martha Montgomery, CCE
Puget Sound Electrology

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#47205 - 11/08/07 05:18 AM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: Marthajoy]
Marthajoy Offline
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It has been a while since I have updated what is going on with this project. I built a adjustable power supply inside the 13.8vdc power supply I purchased using a readily available kit.
I removed a jumper in the CB and instead ran 13.8v out the red microphone wire to power a MIDI Controller purchased from highlyliquid.com also in kit form. However, it is possible to purchase this already made up as well. I purchased an E-mu 1X1 Midi adapter for about $30 as well. I am now able to talk to the controller and check the operation. This unit is certainly capable of microflash. Midi takes about 1 millisec (0.001 sec) to send the 3 bytes each to turn on and off a logic pulse. So in 0.2 seconds it is possible to send 100 pulses each 1ms in length. I verified this with the CB output, that it is indeed switching on an off perfectly.
I am considering, using software that turns a sound card into an scope into the project. This would allow the waveform to actually be displayed on the screen. But that is going to be down the road a bit. The scope will not show every oscillation, but should be able to display on/off pulses as well as levels.
Still working as well on what circuitry I want to use for Galvanic currents. When figured out, that will be incorporated as well. This project is aim'd at being everything for everyone. If Galvanic is wanted, it will do it. If Blend at 27 mhz, then that as well. All modes of Thermoysis imaginable as well.
I would like to know more about what it would take to get approval to market such a device. I know some have said, just type acceptance, but this is a medical device. It just does not seem that somehow the gov't is not involved.
_________________________
Martha Montgomery, CCE
Puget Sound Electrology

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#47215 - 11/08/07 01:52 PM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: Marthajoy]
James W. Walker VII Offline

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Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 8055
Loc: Buffalo NY, & Traveling the US...
Since you are not making a "new device" but rather a device to do something already covered, you need only be able to submit proof that yours is not a departure from what already is. This is why the scammers can churn out their crap, because they can say that the innards of their product does basically what the real thing does. They just don't talk about how they instruct the buyer to use it improperly. They don't talk about how they use inferior raw materials which break if the product is used for any real amount of time. They don't talk about how, in some cases, their product is so under powered as to be useless for the actual goal the person is buying and using the product to obtain.
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#47233 - 11/09/07 01:46 AM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: Marthajoy]
Mantaray Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 711
Loc: San Diego, California
You know Martha, the people I talk to say I'm smart, but you're a g!$@%#m genius. You're knowledge of how to put together an effective machine from scratch is way beyond the intellect of this board (although we're flattered to have you), and probably beyond the range of most of those working at Apilus. I know this because in the brief conversation I had with them regarding the function of the Platinum, they really drew blanks and offered empty answers when asked about the guts of the machine. I seriusly think you should think hard about refining this unit, drawing up plans, patent what you can, and start thinking about asking around for investment capital. If not just as a side project to see where it goes.

Mantaray
_________________________
Mantaray

Electrolysis, since 1875

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#47242 - 11/09/07 07:31 AM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: Mantaray]
Marthajoy Offline
HairTell Pro
Top 20 Contributor

Registered: 05/27/06
Posts: 237
Loc: WASHINGTON
Mantaray;
I really doubt the Genius statement. I am just trying to help out others. It really should not take $10K in order to have a decent hair removal instrument. I have not developed any circuitry of my own for this project. I am just taking existing kits and putting them together in a means that will benefit those who cannot afford the expensive costs of current epilators.
I figure everyone on here has access to a computer, so the biggest expense has already been made. Power supply less than $30. Adjustable supply about $20. Midi Adapter $30-40. HighlyLiquid MPA adapter ~$50, $30-40 for a Midland 1001Z CB Radio. Probes, cables, and some form of usb foot switch, and pretty much the hardware is done for the thermolysis portion. It may take a while to get software up and running, but starting to work on that part as well. I really like the idea of having some form of waveform presentation on the screen so looking into a scope function as well. But that is largely software. If anything I expect less than $20 in purchasing a kit to interface between epilator and sound card.
Things are coming together wonderfully for this project. It is also helping me to regain some of my memory.

_________________________
Martha Montgomery, CCE
Puget Sound Electrology

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#47257 - 11/09/07 11:45 PM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: Marthajoy]
JessicaM Offline
Member

Registered: 10/27/07
Posts: 6
This is very interesting and i presume the finished product is safe or you wouldn't be doing this. I would like to learn more about how to do this.

thanks
Jessica

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#47264 - 11/10/07 06:21 AM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: JessicaM]
Marthajoy Offline
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Registered: 05/27/06
Posts: 237
Loc: WASHINGTON
JessicaM;
I do plan on this being as safe as can be. That being said, I am expecting users to invest in learning about thermolysis before using the device. Thermolysis requires more skill on the part of the operator then either Galvanic or Blend. Galvanic is the modality that the super cheap units are providing. Mainly being a 9vdc battery and a 10kohm potentiometer.
I plan at this time to use a dc to dc converter to boost a regulated current of just a couple of volts up to about 24vdc with both positive and negative voltage. I plan to use real current regulators to regulate the current, so that the current remains constant. I still have to work on that circuitry however.
But I do plan on galvanic DC currents being available. Turn the thermolysis power down and use the negative galvanic current and you have Blend Modality. Turn the power up a bit more and you have Thermolysis both slow and fast. This unit is capable of performing MicroFlash as the turn on/off pulses can be as short as 0.001 seconds. Yes, one can have 100 pulses of energy in just 0.2 seconds. In addition to that, it is very possible to have a different energy level on each one of the pulses if so desired. So ramping up and down is also very achievable.
But as I said, I do expect users to spend time learning how to do insertions, and how to measure the proper depth for the respective type/location of hair. I expect, people will start out with performing galvanic, then progress to blend, and then up the thermolysis modality until they are comfortable with using the microflash modality.
Can thermolysis be made entirely safe. NO! If someone is intent on performing Microflash improperly, there are adverse effects, such as I let every client that sees me, know about prior to treating them. The Electrology Research Corporation puts out about 3 pages worth of possible side effects from electrology.
Books have been published on how to properly perform electrolysis, and I expect users to already know how to perform, or to start out with galvanic and proceed from there. But from an electronics standpoint, I plan on this project to be as safe as can be. I am currently testing out the pulse controller that I purchased from highlyliquid. I am very impressed with the testing that I have already done with this unit. I am almost to the point, that I will start testing on myself. Hopefully that will begin within the next couple of weeks. I want logic control of the power level and some better software before beginning those steps, but we are getting there quickly. Another person is helping with software and with tossing ideas back and forth on this project. I may have started the project, but it is not just a one person design. Others helping me with this project are a great help. I would not be this far along with the project without their help.
_________________________
Martha Montgomery, CCE
Puget Sound Electrology

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#49035 - 01/24/08 02:47 PM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: Marthajoy]
dfahey Offline

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Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 9669
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
Just received a copy of "actuelle" magazine from The Dectro Group. You probably recieved the same, Marthajoy, in your AEA "Electrology World". There is a short article about 27MHz technology, such as used in the Apilus Platinum and Pure. Clement Beaumont, President and CEO of Dectro International clarifies this technology and I personally think this is a good move, since there as been some heated discussions on the AEA forum about 27MHz radio frequency epilators verses 13.56 MHz frequencies.

http://www.dectro.com/medias/actuelle1301-e.pdf

Article starts on page 13.

I wish Dectro had field reps that would travel to or near my city showing me the goods. I hesitate to purchase, not because I'm defensive about what I use, but rather I want to verify the comfort they talk about and actually see and touch the product.

_________________________
Dee Fahey, R.N., C.T.
Licensed by the State Medical Board of Ohio for Nursing license and Cosmetic Therapy/Electrolysis license
_____________________
ELECTROLYSIS FAQ'S:

British Institute & Association of Electrolysis

http://www.electrolysis.co.uk/?page_id=16

Do not give up, the beginning is always the hardest.

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#49037 - 01/24/08 03:00 PM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: dfahey]
James W. Walker VII Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 8055
Loc: Buffalo NY, & Traveling the US...
This entire industry has a lack of hands on time with goods for sale. If one doesn't get to paw the merchandise at a convention, one is just buying on speculation with nothing more than a picture and a description in a magazine (and sometimes you don't even have the picture).
_________________________
http://www.executiveclearance.com/beforeandafter.html
Setting a goal is not the main thing. It is deciding how you will go about achieving it and staying with that plan. --- Tom Landry
Has this site helped you? Pay it forward. Donate to keep HairTell & Hairfacts Online at http://www.hairfacts.com/feedback/support-this-site/

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#49061 - 01/24/08 11:26 PM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: James W. Walker VII]
Marthajoy Offline
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Registered: 05/27/06
Posts: 237
Loc: WASHINGTON
Dee, and James;
I have enjoyed the Actuelle article, but would still like to know more information about what came out during Dectro's studies.
I also question something in the article about Dectro being the first to offer multipulse. I can believe that they may have been the first manufacturer to incorporate that modality with a program, but with so many manual machines in the market, I find it difficult to believe that someone was not already pressing multiple times on a foot pedal in order to get multi-pulses. But it could very well be that they were the first to offer it as a programmed modality.
_________________________
Martha Montgomery, CCE
Puget Sound Electrology

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#49070 - 01/25/08 04:03 AM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: Marthajoy]
James W. Walker VII Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 8055
Loc: Buffalo NY, & Traveling the US...
That is their point. With the Dectro machines, one could program a custom treatment with multiple pulses, and let the computer recreate that same treatment exactly 100 times, or 1,000 times and more importantly, come back to the exact same treatment next time you see that client.

In the dark ages of electrolysis, the beginning of the appointment was spent "finding the proper treatment energy" from scratch. This could take 5 minutes off the total treatment time. At least now, one either has the exact treatment energy, as used previously, or one can make minor adjustments due to the changes in hydration, or the fact that one has exhasted all hairs of the thickness treated with that setting, and can now step down to the next level.
_________________________
http://www.executiveclearance.com/beforeandafter.html
Setting a goal is not the main thing. It is deciding how you will go about achieving it and staying with that plan. --- Tom Landry
Has this site helped you? Pay it forward. Donate to keep HairTell & Hairfacts Online at http://www.hairfacts.com/feedback/support-this-site/

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#50520 - 03/30/08 01:33 AM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: James W. Walker VII]
Marthajoy Offline
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Registered: 05/27/06
Posts: 237
Loc: WASHINGTON
I am starting to get back to working on this project after having to move my office space. Not the best of situations, but starting to cope with it anyway.
I have decided to back things up a bit again. Micro-flash requires power output levels of a little over 20 watts. The CB is in no way going to come anywhere near that stock. So instead of adjusting the power level from inside the CB, I plan on anyone being able to use any CB with no internal modifications of any kind.
Epilation times with a stock CB will range in time requires from about 0.03 seconds for very fine lip hairs to about 0.2 seconds for course facial hairs. This timing is still too fast to be able to use any form of manual switching. I found a pulse generator kit for $29 online, that I believe can be used for the switching control for an epilator someone can begin with. This part of the project uses manual knob turning for adjustments and so it is just a beginners epilator in my opinion.
I have the MPA midi controller that can provide millisecond timing pulses and want to progress as well to the computer controlled epilator. That will now be accomplished by constructing a power amplifier that uses an adjustable power supply to regulate the output level. 20 watt amplifiers are available in kit form online, and I know these outputs can be pushed higher if need be. I certainly do not see any reason to need to just to the 100 watt class by any means. So it looks as if the project is going to be making a power leap in the near future. But for now, I plan on just playing with my function generator to key the unit for trials, then maybe checking into ordering this $29 pulse generator to see if it will really work or not. The trigger output could sound a beep to let operator know that pulse is active. I believe triggering power input should work as a means of triggering the generator.
What I would like to do to compare a 13.5mhz and the CB epilator, is to run tests using egg whites and maybe even recording the different settings. It should be interesting to see how much if any differences there happens to be. This testing of course will be with both units running identical power and pulse width and the same non insulated probes. This is what I really want to find out for myself, is the quickness and less pain advertised due to the frequency shift or to the power output level being increased.
Anyway, anyone with suggestions as to how this test should be conducted, I would like to hear from.
_________________________
Martha Montgomery, CCE
Puget Sound Electrology

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#50552 - 03/31/08 07:34 PM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: Marthajoy]
Marthajoy Offline
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Top 20 Contributor

Registered: 05/27/06
Posts: 237
Loc: WASHINGTON
I have found and ordered a kit Pulse Generator for $29 plus shipping.
http://secure.transtronics.com/SK-302.htm
It does have a trigger level input, so being able to use a foot switch will be easy to wire. I now have the total cost of this epilator down into the $200 range, and it has a power level as high if not higher than an Clareblend Ultrablend, and it runs at twice the frequency. In a few weeks I plan to run some testing comparing 13.5Mhz to 27Mhz. Maybe someone will explain to me how I might be able to post them on here, or maybe just putting a link to another site might work as well.
The project does not have galvanic currents, and is strictly thermolysis, as the RF power is to great to make blend an option. It would need about a 10db attenuator to make Blend viable.
Anyway, some changes have been made to my website, for those who are interested.
http://marthajoy7.clearwire.net/CBconversion/
_________________________
Martha Montgomery, CCE
Puget Sound Electrology

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#50664 - 04/04/08 06:26 AM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: Marthajoy]
Marthajoy Offline
HairTell Pro
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Registered: 05/27/06
Posts: 237
Loc: WASHINGTON
Here is another update:
This $29 pulse Generator is going to work wonderfully. It arrived today, and I spent this evening putting it together. This project has absolutely no problems with foot switch triggering. No false triggering was detected of any kind. The kit has a manual switch as part of the kit. I just ran two wires from across that switch to a new jack (RCA) in the back of the chassis. My footswitches I have rigged to use RCA jacks so this allows different switches to be shared. However, if you are purchasing a $7 foot switch off the web, that comes with a 1/4 inch phone plug, so you will either want to install a 1/4" phone jack or you will have to change the plug on the footswitch to whatever you want.
Bad news is the output is not 0-10v as stated. it is 0 to +10v or 0 to -10v but no pulse always = zero volts, which leaves the epilator keyed. This is because the circuit is driving an output stage which then outputs the adjustable level output. The stages prior to this are TTL NAND gates, and so it is possible that wiring a mic cord directly to this point might work, but worse case altogether, is to use the positive out to trigger a transitor to switch the CB to transmit mode. very simple to do, and I have proved previously that this will work.
I am looking at hopefully running my comparison tests next week, as I have clients to help the rest of the week. Anyway, I will keep those interested informed as things progress.
_________________________
Martha Montgomery, CCE
Puget Sound Electrology

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#50710 - 04/06/08 05:29 AM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: Marthajoy]
Marthajoy Offline
HairTell Pro
Top 20 Contributor

Registered: 05/27/06
Posts: 237
Loc: WASHINGTON
The Pulse Generator for this project works wonderfully. It is constructed and tested out. I am just about ready to start tests to compare how 13.5 mhz electrolysis compares to 27 mhz. Both using identical power levels and pulse widths. I wish to record the video that I take for tests and then maybe I can encode them into computer files for others to observe as well.
Initial tests will be conducted with pulse durations as short as 0.02 seconds and will proceed to 0.4 seconds. That right now is the longest duration for the pulse generator. That is capable of being changed really easy though if different pulse lengths are needed.
I am beginning to realize that not everyone has the experience or the desire to build this pulse generator, and so I will consider building it for a fee to cover my costs and some income. Development time has all been my expense, and I feel that building for others, should bring at least some income into our home. I would need to know what brand and model number of the CB that this unit will connect to, in order to interface it correctly. It can be powered by the same power supply that the CB is using, so only the one power supply is needed.
Another option as far as probe cables. The dectro probe cables that use a TA3 connector do work at 27mhz and are less expensive. I might be able to construct a short cable adapter to change pl-259 connector to the mating connector for this, or the TA3 could be removed and a BNC Plug installed. The a simple pl-259 to BNC adapter could be used. But then any replacement cables would also need to have this mode performed.
The choice is up the the user.
_________________________
Martha Montgomery, CCE
Puget Sound Electrology

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#94762 - 12/28/11 04:59 AM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: Marthajoy]
lyndsey965 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/12/11
Posts: 2
Loc: Michigan
I'm excited about this. I'm going to build it!

What ever happened to Marthajoy?
Too bad her project website is down...

I already have some parts and will be putting it together over the winter.

Lyndsey

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#95693 - 02/08/12 01:49 AM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: lyndsey965]
hankm77 Offline
Contributor

Registered: 11/12/09
Posts: 39
How are you making out Lyndsey?

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#96951 - 03/22/12 12:15 AM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: hankm77]
lyndsey965 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/12/11
Posts: 2
Loc: Michigan
Hi hankm77, I had to put the project on the back burner for a while. I collected the CB, power supply and a case for it so far.. I need to get a signal generator and whatever else I need. I'm still excited to build it and will when my finances permit it.
Thanks for asking! smile

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#99766 - 06/28/12 02:23 AM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: lyndsey965]
ChrisWB Offline
Member

Registered: 06/22/12
Posts: 1
I ran across this thread about a month ago while searching the internet and realised this was right up my alley. It turns out I already have most of what is required: 13.8V power supply, brand new in the box CB sitting in a storage room for 25 years.

I am using a Daisy probeholder and cable from Uni-probe with a BNC connector (using a Pl-259 to BNC adapter on the CB). My oscilloscope reads about 12-14V p-p at the tip, so I assume this probe is capable of operating at 27MHz. My only concern is the cable states it is RG-174, but also says it is 75 Ohms. I can't find any records of RG-174 cable being anything else but 50 Ohms. If anyone has a Decro probe or Apilus Platinum probe and can measure the length of the cable and probe (and tell me what type of cable it uses) I would greatly appreciate it.

I'm not sure what Marthajoy's plans were as here websites are long dead, so if anyone can fill me in with any of the missing information that would be great. Most importantly would be any information on pulses. I have decided this project would be best using a microcontroller. I have a PIC controller connected to a 24x2 digit LCD display, so I can pretty much program it to do whatever I want. I basically need some information on what types of pulses to send depending on the hair type.

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#99771 - 06/28/12 04:59 AM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: ChrisWB]
Hairadicator Offline
Top 20 Contributor

Registered: 06/07/12
Posts: 205
This is an old thread. I recently attempted to contact Marthajoy to see if she followed through with her project, but did not get a response. Depending on power output, timing or pulse duration can vary from 1/1000 of a second up to several seconds. Treatment parameters based on hair type are software programs proprietary to manufacturers and not available even to electrologists.
_________________________
David Hardee, R.E.
Registered Electrologist since 1980
251-447-9500

hairzap@gmail.com

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#101693 - 10/12/12 11:08 PM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: Hairadicator]
bah Offline
Member

Registered: 09/21/12
Posts: 1
Hi Everyone, does anybody know about the peak-to-peak voltage of the commercial models? Any model? I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

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#101695 - 10/13/12 01:46 AM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: bah]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3360
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
It's been year since I was involved in machine design, but I believe standard manual HF-thermolysis (blend) levels are 35Vp-p - 90Vp-p.

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#101696 - 10/13/12 02:35 AM Re: Build Your own 27 Mhz Epilator - using CB radi [Re: Michael Bono]
Mantaray Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 711
Loc: San Diego, California
I miss Marthajoy, she was my buddy. She was cool, she was kind of sarcastically funny too, to people that just didn't get her. I feel bad, because she wanted me to assist her somehow, maybe with just being her inspiring friend. The one from the CB radio, I remember she either had it working, or almost had it working. She had some formal electrical training, I think from the Navy. She was as smart as they get. She built all kinds of stuff. She was a natural.

She was up in Puget Sound, I visited her website. No mention of her like it used to have(?). Your best bet is to place a polite call to her electrolysis clinic on her link. Maybe they can lead you to her via some registry, its such a small community. She was always out to talk about stuff she wanted to do. I think she would be pleasantly surprised to hear someone followed her plans to built an Apilus Platinum frequency style machine from useable parts.

I remember when she got the used Clareblend(?), and she actually did all these circuitry measurements on it. She found the machine was pretty far off its claimed marks and voltage increments. When she contacted Clareblend with this, they just got kind of redfaced and refused to send her a user's manual with a schematic. HA! She wanted to fix it, make it better than when it left the factory. I think she installed high-precision 'ratio' knobs on it, and replaced some of the circuitry. And she was like, 'now' it's a decent machine. You gotta love that. smile

I always told her she should design a cheap machine and bring it to a manufacturer. I miss her. frown

Mantaray
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Mantaray

Electrolysis, since 1875

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