Hi everyone!

I am a lighter skinned black person with coarse black curly hair on my neck and sideburns as well as abdomen. I have previously done one laser treatment on my sideburns and neck but I noticed that coarse hair grew in where there was no hair before. The hair is very spaced out so is it possible that the laser caused the vellus hair to grow back as terminal hair?

Instead, after reading some posts by other users, I am considering using electrolysis for this area. I have a consultation with a trial treatment this week and was wondering what I should ask the electrologist to ensure that I am getting the best treatment. Also, I have the website link to this person, and from her website she seems to be a very competent person. http://www.bishopelectrolysis.on.ca/

Do any of you agree? Also the trial treatment is $20 CAD for 15 min, is this good pricing?

My last question is, are there any users on this forum who have had experience with this electrologist in the Toronto and Greater Toronto Area?

Thanks for all of your help!!


-The Green Goddess

Sounds like she's worth a try. She has an Apilus machine, which is a good modern one. Pricing sounds fine. You'll probably need longer treatments (5-10 hairs are removed per minute with the fast method) in the beginning which are cheaper. Once you like an electrologist, you may be able to work out a pay-up-front deal for multiple hours. Make sure you're not feeling the hair being plucked, i.e. that it slides out without much resistance after being zapped. Also, buy some witch hazel to apply afterwards for several days to help the skin heal. On your skin color, you also need to make sure you're not getting pigmentation.

If you want to see who others from Toronto have used on this forum, you can run a search for the city name.

In terms of laser, yes, laser is only supposed to be used on coarse dense hair. It can stimulate induced growth on a woman's face when it touches areas with no hair. Electrolysis is the right method for you if you have pretty sparse hairs.

Thank you lagirl!!

I love her magnification (what else could I say, I have the same rig) and her Apilus SM-500 is a nice machine, (although 2 generations behind being the MOST ADVANCED thing out there, as her site claims) although, with software updates, it could have been upgraded to be equal to a fully loaded SX-500 (which would be only one generation behind, but I did not see the applique's that would designate that she had that done).

Test her out, and see what your skin condition is like when you are done with a treatment, and how long it takes to heal up. That is the only real test between electrologists. How much hair do they remove, and what do you look like when they are done.

I would add Tea Tree Oil to put on overnight on the evening after treatments, for quicker healing, and one may want to continue to use it for 2 extra nights just to make sure. It will reduce the incidence of puss and scabbing.

Given her location and her equipment, $20CAD for 15 min is a very good price.

The SM-500 is no Platinum (and I know from experience!) But it is still a very capable machine. If a DIYer like me can get acceptable results with it, in the hands of a skilled pro I am sure it can work wonders.

Her name sounds familiar. I think I went to her about 7 years ago. Is she located in a hair salon in the plaza on the south east corner? I recall that her brother owned the hair salon. It's been many years so I have no idea if the salon still exists (I no longer live in TO). If it is her, she was very nice but S-L-O-W. Although, perhaps over the years her speed has improved. I only went to her a few times because of her lack of speed. I then started to go to a woman who works out of her home and also works out of Betty's which is in the Promenade Mall,3rd floor. Her name is Ophelia but I have no idea if she still works there.

Now this is the kind of help we like to see here.

I wish more people would "Pay It Forward" like this.

Hi ht2003, she is located in a hair salon, in the plaza but I think on the south west corner of Yonge and 16th. My appointment is today so I am excited!

Thanks for the Tea Tree Oil bit James, I actually use it for acne in general so I do have it .

I will let you know how this appointment goes today. And what can you define as working "slowly"?

Since the SM-500 does have an insertion counter, (although we don't know if she has a printer that would give you appointment stats on a receipt to take home) you can ask her for your tally of insertions for the appointment, and total treatment time. That will give you an idea of the number of hairs per hour treated. This can be an indication of speed. One just has to realize that it is easier to do 1000 hairs per hour when the client has 1,000 hairs located inside 2 square inches as opposed to spread out over an entire face.

If she's using microflash or thermolysis, you should probably expect 4-6 hairs removed per minute on average.

Both my electrologists remove about 10-15 hairs per minute on average. They have the Apilus Junior and Apilus Senior.

The woman I go to also removes at least 10 hairs per minute . . . normally more. My hair is very blonde and fine so perhaps removing fine hair is a faster process?

Well I had my consultation yesterday and since I have very curly course hair, she said that it would take a 45min-60min session each week in the beginning since the needle may not be hitting the hair follicle. What length of time can be estimated as the "beginning"? She said over time the hairs would straighten and the follicle will be reached by the needle. The method she used on me was thermolysis. She said over all, it would take about 1.5 years for complete removal of the hair. Cost is $52 for 45 min and $68 for 1 hr. Is this a good price?

When I asked about the total hair removed from the session, she said that it was against the electrologist's oath or honour to say how much hair had been removed because it is the accuracy that counts in removing the hair.

The sensation of electrolysis felt like miniature burns/shocks. And the hair felt like it was sliding/being picked out very easily but definitely not being plucked. It was bearable.

Do you end up getting scabs at all because right now the area where she treated (my jawline) is smooth.

She gave me the contact of another electrolysis that is closer to (and therefore cheaper travelling) where I live so that if I chose to I could go to her instead.

I generally liked her, she was knowledgeable about her profession and was very easy to talk to.

Everything sounds good here. Scabs do not always appear. It varies on area, your skin etc. But if they do, it will take a couple days for them to show up and another several days for them to fall off.

Do make sure to apply witch hazel to the area a few times a day until it heals. And don't use anything with chemicals that clogs pores like moisturizers, heavy makeup, facewash, etc.

Hi lagirl, she said to keep out of the sun (i.e. no tanning etc) and I wear a light moisturizer with spf 15, is that ok?

Don't use the moisturizer for a few days after the treatment until the skin heals. Staying out of the sun is not a bad idea, and especially necessary for people with darker skin to avoid pigmentation issues.

I believe the FDA is about to or has come out with the recommendation that sunscreens of 30 SPF or higher should be used.

I usually don't promote products, but one product I really like is COTZ SPF 58. It's an acronym that stands for "Contains Only Titanium & Zinc".


The only ingredients in COTZ are Titanum Dioxcide 10% and Zinc Oxcide 3%

There is no PABA, Oil and it is fragrance free. It protects against UVA/UVB rays. It's great for sensitive skin. Good for kids, too. Oh, and it's water resistant.

Before anyone asks where to buy this, here is some contact information:

Fallene, Ltd.

www.totalblock.com

1-800-332-5536

Hi everyone!

So I decided to do another consultation with a different electrologist just so I could weigh my options out and be sure about who to choose. The second one charges a higher rate of $74.50 CAD per hour due to her location, a very upscale area in Toronto.

The epilator, she says is from England, is called the Glamread. Has anyone heard of it? She also uses ballet needles (insulated) and an autoclave for sterilization of tweezers. The treatment I had with her was more painful than with Bishop's, a bit more uncomfortable. I also had more swelling of the area at this location than at Bishop's. How much does it matter the amount of current that each electrologist uses? At Bishop's, my skin was slightly raised but not nearly as red or swollen. The swelling subsided after 1.5 hours. Is swelling at all unusual?

As well her recommendation was 1 hour for the area, and a clearance time of 2 years, compared to Bishop's who said 45min-1hr per treatment and a clearance time of 1.5 years. Is this a big difference?

Also I wanted to ask you all, since my hair is curly, it's likely that the roots are curly. Is it possible to manoeuvre a needle into the follicle if it is curly? Or is it possible for the follicle to straighten over treatment?

She seemed to know her stuff though and was very surprised that I asked many questions. She said most people don't ask and that she was glad that I did. She seemed rather sincere about having the hair removed.

I hope to hear your replies soon, thanks!

What type of electrolysis does she use? Blend type can tackle curly hairs with no problems since the solution goes down to the root no matter what. That's why sometimes it's better than thermolysis on the very curly hair. But with good insertions, thermolysis will also work for most hair.

As long as signs went away within a few hours you're fine.

It's really impossible to predict how long it will take etc since it depends mostly on your committment to frequent treatments and getting your clearance fast etc and not her. So don't judge anyone based on their estimates.

Bishop's uses a surgical scope (like James uses.) What kind of magnification does the other electrologist use? Never heard of a Glamread machine, so I can't compare it to Bishop's (is she still using an SM-500, or did she move up to an Apilus SX-500 or a Platinum?)

If you stick to the schedule your electrologist gives you, and your electrologist is highly skilled and using modern equipment you could be done in 18 months, it isn't unreasonable at all.

Swelling is not unusual. My treatments on my face are so intense (type III genetic male facial hair isn't easy) I am swollen for 12-24 hours after treatment But it goes down in time, and all is good.

If yo have curly hair, then the importance of seeing the electrologist when the hairs are in early anagen (brand new growth) is highlighted all the more. Get a first clearance, preferably with thermolysis and then go in as new hair emerges when it is straight in the follicle. The longer you leave the new hair alone to grow, the curvier it will get. Blend is fine, but so is thermolysis when you have the right approach and good timing to get the hair while it is straight in the follicle.

The best epilators are the newest generations of computerized brands and some brands offer higher advantage over other brands. Glamrad????? Never heard of this, but the true test lies with skill, sensation, skin reaction and speed. So evalute for yourself.

It sounds like you are confused on the name of the machine since "Glamrad" pulls absolutely nothing on Google. If it's an actual brand, that wouldn't be the case.

No, I said it was called "Glamread" not Glamrad. I also google searched it and cannot find anything on it. This is the name it says on the machine. When I asked her what it was called, she said it wouldn't be known here because it was a machine from England, so she didn't exactly give me a name. I just looked at the machine myself and found a Glamread label.

Another note, she does use thermolysis and she said her microscope is like Bishop's. Another note, she said that I am not to shave or touch the area in between treatments. I thought shaving was one of the few hair removal techniques that you could do during electrolysis?

Also, I am not sure if Bishop's has updated her machine. I will ask her about this the next time I see her.

Some small company or even one person who is an engineer probably made this machine. Anyone who is in-the-know can make a simple machine that will destroy hair growing tissue, but they can't duplicate the intricacies and components of the big companies like Dectro, Silhouet-Tone and Instantron to name a few.

If your person has skill and you heal well in between treatments, then you will get permanent hair removal. They even may be able to keep treatment comfortable. You need to give her a chance and then assess things like sensation level while receiving treatment, skin condition afterwards. Observe if the hair is releasing well after the follicle is treated.

All I can offer you is my personal opinion about the benefits I have witnessed using the better brands of computerized professional epilators available today in 2008. Along with surgical magnification, proper lighting and SKILL, you would be hard-pressed to have better treatment with lesser known equipment that may be very old?

Shaving or clipping is recommended between treatments. It helps you disguise your hair problem until the electrologist can catch up with hair growth cycles and it helps the electrologist identify active hairs as oppossed to inactive hairs that we can't really affect anyway. The benefits of shaving and clipping are well documented and defined in electrolysis books. We learn about this at accredited electrolysis schools and continuing education courses. You don't want to shave with a blade-type razor until the area is healed after electrolysis. An electric shaver would be best to use a couple days after, depending on your healing. That's why you want someone that can "kill" the hair without leaving you with scabs and such, so you can shave, if you need to.

It is possible to "kill" hair, leaving all the action of healing below the skin while leaving the surface of the skin looking as if nothing happened at all! Now we are back to the simple concepts of skill and combinig that skill with expert use of good equipment.

Give your Glamread lady a chance, but do check out other electrologists and compare all work.

Dee

Hey everyone!

Since the consultations (3 and 4 weeks ago), no hair has grown back in the areas treated. Is this the length of the cycle of hair growth, or are the hairs not growing back?

Thanks!

"No" to the first question and I would say, "maybe" for the last question.

If hairs that were treated were all in the proper stage of growth and the correct levels of energy and timing was used, then they are probably gone forever. If the hairs treated were not all in the growth phase, then they were only weakened and will back in 6-16 weeks. So stay on a schedule and get the NEW hairs as they pop forth in the next several weeks when they are weak.

Remember, the only way to know if this treatment were successful would be to take a picture of the area Before Treatment, and then now, After Treatment, and then wait until NEXT YEAR and take a Final After Picture and compare the three pictures. This would tell you how effective ONE TREATMENT of electrolysis was.

This is why there is a little faith one has to have in one's practitioner. One could not really know how good that person's work was for a year, if one did only one treatment.

If one continues to go to someone, one will know in about 3 to 6 months.