Hello,
This forum has been invaluable (along with cosmeticenhancementsforum.com) in guiding me on what to do about the hair on my back (and other places).

So this is my story:

I'm male, 33 and have a hairy back, here's a picture:

I would have said this hair was fine, but chatting with the lady she said this was coarse hair (I guess compared to arm hair it is)

I calculated that I'm a Type II on the skin chart (and the operator agreed), and that I would respond best to an Alexandrite laser. These forums more or less said the GentleLase would be the best machine for me, and there are very few of these machines in Sydney, Australia. I found one recommendation for Lasercare in Artarmon, i found no other recommendations for any clinics in Sydney that use GentleLase.
I asked the following questions:

How old is the machine?


How long have you been doing this?


Who taught you?


Do you do anything else?

(I did notice that the Dr also ran a gynaecologists in the same building)

What settings will you be using?

I also noted the pulse count was 1318, the spray was 60ms, cooling was 40ms and the canister count was 5391

How much will it cost?


Questions i didn't ask?
(in a Sean Connery accent) Do you Expect me to talk?

and

It's not mounted on the head of sea bass is it?

This was the area selected for the test patch

Then she gave me a little shave with electric clippers, and zapped me. ooooo good lord it hurts.
Like properly hurts. And there is a smell of burning hair
Some have said "it's like have an elastic band flicked on your skin" which is true, but it's one of those tiny thin stretchy elastic bands, and it's pretty much been pulled back to just outside the earth's atmosphere.
A few years ago i accidentally stapled my hand. It felt like that. But the pain disappears almost straight away.
However, in having a whole back done the pain is pretty much constant as one zap fades the next one is applied.
She thoroughly recommended anaesthetising cream and I whole heartedly agreed.
I have quite a high pain threshold (I broke 4 ribs a few years ago and didn't know until an xray a year later) but for only an extra $70 I'm goign for the cream.

This was my back 1 hour afterwards:


Doesn't hurt but it feels a little sensitive.

What I would like to know is:

Is the price ($450 per session) reasonable? the receptionist said it is likely to go down after two sessions as there will be less hair to treat.

Is a 10 year old machine ok?

What is the Pulse count and the Canister count?

Those are good settings. However, most of your hair is not really coarse enough to be affected by laser. The part at the top and a couple spots on the sides are dense and coarse enough. The rest is likely too fine and treating them can result in induced growth on those areas, so that's something to be aware of. You will need electrolysis for most of the hair in the middle of your back.

To answer your questions, that price is ok for the entire back, but since you really only should be treating those several spots, it should be a lot cheaper. 10-year-old machine is fine as long as it's been maintained.

Call around and get other price quotes. LHR prices vary greatly. 300 dollars per session is not a bad price in the US.

Make sure to only treat dark coarse hair. I would also suggest that they place ice packs on areas where you do not want to induce growth. The ice packs will help to absorb heat from the laser and keep it from inducing growth.

Just have the top 10 by 10 centimeters square treated. It should cost around 50 Aus Dollars.

Pulse and canister count, I think they have something to do with previous treatments.

Pulse count is how many times they actually shoot the laser beam. I would assume canister count refers to the numbing agent left.

I have a similar type skin and used a GentleLase+ with great success.
http://www.hairtell.com/forum/ubbthreads....html#Post46017

I recommend the clinic in Artarmon (owned and run by a medical doctor called Jill [ who is great!] and with assistants who know what they are doing). Appears you went there too.

http://www.lasercare.net.au/

Yes, they are more expensive than IPL clinics around town but price is long forgotten after quality results!

For anyone that wants good information on chest hair reduction with a respected laser, please read the above post that ExSidneyGorilla wrote about his experience. Laser worked really well for ESG. If ESG wanted total removal, a skilled electrologist could get the remaining hair, but he seems very relieved with a 90% reduction. We can't be more thankful to him for such a fabulous report. One of the best I've seen here on hairtell.

I've just had my 1st full session, I delayed it a week to see how the test patches reacted. All good.
This is me post one hour:


(the hexagon pattern at the bottom is from my car seat)

I got there an hour before I was due and the Doctor (who i hadn't met before) shaved my back and shoulders then rubbed EMLA cream on my back (this cost an extra Au$70. it was totally worth it.) then wrapped me in Cling wrap (also known as Glad Wrap) and left me in my own little room for an hour for the cream to take affect, it was nice. I fell asleep.

Then the lady who had done the first test patch took me into the laser room and started. She griddled me up with a pen and wiped off any excess cream.
She was using the higher 15/30 setting.
The cream was working well, it feels odd. I think I can best describe it like your back feels like your head when it's under water. Or possibly like that brief period when you've had really bad pins and needles and it's in the numb stage as it's returning to normal.
For the main part I didn't feel anything, then in the thicker hair it was a bit painful. Right on the spine was a different pain and caused little muscle spasms which was weird and really unpleasant (but I'm very ticklish on my back).

I intend to have the next session in 10 weeks time, is there any disadvantage in waiting more than 8 weeks?

I think I'm going to get my bottom crack, my balls and my shaft done.
I will be using EMLA cream on that one. I will probably wait until the new year for that one too though :0)

hello again,
this is 24 hours after treatment:


It feels sensitive, not painful, not even uncomfortable. Like I've got a mild sunburn I guess.

The hair follicles have started to blister


This is the bottom of my neck, where the hair was thickest
click the magnifying glass for extreeeeeeme close up

This was the same result as the test patch...so just waiting for it to clear up.

Looks fabulous to me. It appears that you had a good treatment, but the jury is still out as far as what kind of results you will end up with. What aftercare advice did they give you?

Thanks so much for the pictures.

Dee

I would purchase some Tend Skin and apply it to the back of your neck and anywhere else your having this reaction. Dont mess with them otherwise it could lead to infection and scarring.

Aftercare advice was wear sunscreen, wear sunscreen, don't go out in the sun, avoid the sun and, i think, wear sunscreen.
I'm not much of a sun worshipper so it's not a huge issue but i'm mindfull now, and so when i go snorkelling i shall wear a rash vest.

Here we go for 2 days post treatment. I'll post them until it clears that was the thing i was missing from these forums, what did it look like straight afterwards...well, this:

ooo, i'm alarmed at this post do you feel this is not a typical reaction? this is the same as both test patches...no visible scaring there.

You will be fine. Some follicles have some pus. We call this folliculitus. Take a warm shower and use an antibacterial soap, like Dial and they should be short-lived. Do not do any activity that makes you perspire for 24 hours after a treatment. Next appointment, go in with a very clean back. Have someone wash your back for you if possible. Observe if the technician disinfects the piece that touches your skin. Maybe these measures will help reduce this reaction. Tend skin is a good suggestion. Ask your laser practitioner what they suggest after you show them the picture or just mosey in and let them look at you. Did they give you an aftercare instruction sheet?

You will be fine. Just keep the area clean and dry.

Dee

Didnt mean to alarm you. Its a common reaction.

This is a typical thermal reaction on pale skin with very dark, coarse hair. Be gentle with the skin. I personally don't like Tend Skin nor antibacterial soap this soon after a treatment. The lymph fluid is mother nature's way of healing. Ice/cool packs immediately after treatment and off and on during the first several hours will help get that heat out of the skin.

thanks for the advice.
I have been trying to keep it clean, showering lots, unfortunately I'm quite an active person so avoiding sweating will be problematic (hence lots of showers).
I'm wearing loose t shirts, it's starting to get itchy though.

Now i've had folliculitus before, not on my back, as a result of shaving. It was a lot lot lot LOT worse than this. Trust me, it's the last thing in the entire world i would like to have again (i snapped the top of my femur off early last year and i would choose that again in a second).

anyway, if the itching has not gone away by Monday i shall get it seen to.

here we go, 3 days after treatment:





as you can see lymph fluid is down, itching is up. Most likely it's just the hairs ejecting from the skin causing irritation. IMHO.

off topic, but: Folliculitus is why i looked into getting hair removed permanently in the first place, and why i had never shaved my back before.

Pictures are great. I personally think you got a good treatment and this temporary skin reaction will be worth it if you are happy with the results in the end.

The thing that surprises me the most is clients who freak out over laser and electrolysis causing the inflammation process. All this is normal because the skins environment has been disrupted. The hard part for consumers is knowing when overtrearment has occurred. That's the job of the laser and electrolysis practitioner to know and then make adjustments. The skin is a pretty resilient organ and mends itself most of the time. I know you are NOT freaking out about this, so I'm not pointing this comment your way, but I say this as a passing thought when I think of some of my ladies who do freak out if they have one or several red dots on their face after a treatment. I would say not bad out of the 600 or so insertions that were made in one hour to remove to thick chin hair that has been tweezed for years. Both laser and electrolysis clients should expect some temporary skin reaction. We do our best to minimize it, but we are damaging tissue so you don't grow hair anymore! Believe me, hair is a tough enemy to fight.

So, in short, you are not the freaky out type of client and your concerns are well understood. You will be fine. Perhaps a good aloe vera gel will help to moisturize and soothe the itching. It works for electrolysis so I'm assuming it will work for laser aftercare. Look forward to future updates.

Dee

Thanks for the input Dee.
I reckon it would have helped a lot if the practitioner could have shown pictures of what happens to the skin shortly after treatment. While I'm not a freaking out type of guy, I am a worrier so maybe a photo-card that went "this is what it will look like" would have put me more at ease.
It was one of the reasons I came to this forum and it's sister site (http://www.cosmeticenhancementsforum.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=3)
At the end of the day it's not a big deal, I'm confident the itching will stop. I'm really looking forward to seeing how much of these little hairs I can see are stubble of new growth and how much is dead follicles ejecting.

You make such an important point about preparing clients to know what they can or cannot expect after a treatment. I spend a lot of vocal time with my clients on:

1. Hair Growth Cycles and...........
2. What is normal healing skin reaction and what is not normal healing skin reaction.

They are asked to give me feedback either by e-mail or at the next appointment about how they healed. That way, I can make adjustments in those early sessions as needed. Suggest to the laser clinic you go to that they can show the picture you took of yourself to future clients so they don't worry like you have worried. I think they would love the input and the offer. Afterall, you are a consumer and they are a business and a business can't be too thorough. It would certainly ease concerns like you had or console the freaked out clients.

Other comments unrelated: Cosmetic Enhancements Forum is not a sister site to hairtell. It is run by laser physicians, I believe?? Someone correct me if I am wrong. It's a very good site that I frequent now and then to answer questions, but the electrolysis section is not as active as the laser section because this website exists mainly for the promotion of laser hair reduction. The sister site to hairtell is www.hairfacts.com

Take a meander over there. Andrea has worked very hard to make it one of the best.

Again, it sure looks like something has happened to affect hair with those pictures, but time will tell.

Dee

hello again, just checking in, this is 4th day after treatment, looks the same as day three to me, itching has all but stopped though, which is nice.





if there is not much change I will probably post at day 7 and then not again until before my next session in 8 to 10 weeks.
Is there any disadvantage in waiting more then 10 weeks? Do I risk missing a follicles active cycle?

I would stick to the 8-10 week schedule just to be sure that most of the follicles being shot are producing growing hair. How much longer were you thinking of waiting beyond 8-10 weeks? I can't tell if the fluid in the follicles is subsiding by this picture, even though I enlarged it. Glad the itching has lessened. An itch can be a b.....!

probably only to about 12 weeks.
the fluid is subsiding.
it looks the same today as yesterday, will take a picture tomorrow i think.
It's not easy taking a picture of the back of my own neck!
:0)

Twelve weeks is getting close to the borderline, but still may be okay? For simplicity, I tell my clients, after a hair is tweezed, it will regrow in 6-16 weeks. Simplicity is needed to explain hair growth cycles because there are so many if's, and's and buts'.

According to a published regrowth chart where the authors have observed hair growth cycles in some areas, the average resting stage of hair from area to area is anywhere from 4 weeks to 16 weeks with the exception of the beard where a hair can be in anagen for 52 weeks. This chart excludes scalp hair where the anagen stage can be seven years!

Looking forward to your next picture. Maybe someone can help you take a picture???

6th day
not much change from day 4.





Less redness, but little change... will post weekly from now on.