The reason I thought the doctor seems arrogant was that he denied the possibility that the laser treatments could have caused the hair on my shoulders and arms to be more visible (darker, thicker) and said that it was my hormones. He didn't offer the treatment at a lower price or any kind of refund. He just sort of brushed me off.

When I first had my consult with them, they were not realistic in their promises. They made me feel that I was a perfect candidate, that I could finish well under $3000 and that I can easily expect 75% reduction after just 6 treatments. From what I'm reading those were very unrealistic expectations, and if that's true, that's just bad business. But I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

I may try one more time to negotiate with them. I was paying $400 a session, perhaps I can get down to $300.

It's unrealistic that doctor's, laser reps or laser providers, in general, deny that there is such a thing as laser hair stimulation. This appears to be a pretty common complaint for certain areas in the the years I have followed several hair removal boards. Perhaps I am being too harsh toward the good doctor, but I still can't discount that he may be kicking himself a little bit and prefers to deny that a phenomenon called laser hair stimulation exists. If you are the first one he has witnessed, then maybe the second one that complains about more hair showing up will cause him to pause and think there maybe something to your complaint.

So you are going to reward him with more business if he drops the price?

It sounds like your first 3 treatments were spaced too close together and had relatively low settings (and if they didn't use an 18mm spot size, they were definitely too low. can you find out the spot size?). So that's the first problem. Technically, you only received about 2-3 good treatments at most. The second problem is treating hair that's not dense and very coarse, which caused induced growth. If you want to educate them on the issue, you can print out an article online and bring it to them. It's really their fault for not educating themselves on this issue. This is why we prefer places where those who treat you have extensive experience and interest in LHR specifically, not a general dermatology office where they don't have time or desire to attend conferences etc to learn about the latest in the industry. Then, I would negotiate future free treatments based on this. With your skin type, you shouldn't have a problem being treated at 18-20J on 18mm it sounds like. If they can use 20J without side effects, they should. Pictures would help us of course see if the hair is coarse.

I'll try to take some pictures tonight, unfortunately the hair is still pretty short since I shaved it 2 weeks ago.


LAgirl,Could you point me to to one of those articles on induced growth?

Thanks

Google this:

"Hair Stimulation Following Laser and Intense Pulsed Light Photo-Epilation: Review of 543 Cases and Ways to Manage It"

Andrea Willey, MD is the head author on this article from 2007.

There are more articles. I can help you out later with more articles, unless lagirl responds before I can get back.

Dee

Dee,

Thank You! I read the study, there is some interesting information there. Definitely hair growth stimulation cannot be ignored anymore. I'm interested in reading any other studies that you might know of.

What I'd be interested in knowing now is if stimulated condition on those hairs is a permenant effect or not. I was told by the technician that over time those hairs should thin again but I'm not so sure.

At the very least, can I have hope that the "new hair" growth can be treated with additional treatments?


I really appreciate everyone's input, you all have been great. Hopefully with some self education and a little luck, I can find a treatment solution that at least provides me with positive results.

I have never known hair to stop growing on its own, once it has been stimulated. Without permanent hair removal, you will most likely have this hair forever, unless some problem causing reduced circulation to your back occurs. (not bloody likely, but it may be a drug side effect of some FDA cleared medication for runny noses --- that is a joke folks)


Dude, you live in Dallas! Why aren't you getting your back cleared with electrolysis at E-3000? I would expect that they could clear you out the first time in a day or three, and then you would just need to come back 3 weeks later, and then 4 weeks later, and then 6 weeks later, and then stick with something between 4 and 8 weeks after that.

Thanks dfahey for the kind words. I feel I must be honest when it comes to laser. I have been a laser tech since 2005 and now a new electrologist. I see lots of positives and negatives with both. Clients almost always benefit from both, especially, on large areas. Laser has its limitations and side-effects (such as stimulated hair growth and delayed telogen which can last years until returning back to normal. I have seen it myself) and electrolysis has its own.

Almost everyone knows electrolysis limitations since its been around since 1875(?)and I think laser companies takes advantage of that. In advertising, they put down electrolysis in any opportunity (slow tedius ect) they possibly can and stretch the truth about themselves. They have a fair amount of skeletons in their closet and I'm sure they will be escaping in the near-future...it is already happening when consumers have failed laser treatments and tell their friends.

Electrolysis has had it's skeleton's released along time ago and had had its sucesses proven (permanent results) too. But I already heard about an "expert" trying to prove electrolysis isn't permanent. No doubt it was put out by a laser company.

Hopefully, as a new electrologist, you invested in the best computerized epilator(s) available today and surgical magnification. If you did and you expertly use them, you will see no sizable skeleton's in regard to proper electrolysis care. All that has been wiped out by computerization and special techniques and good vision and light equipment.

I am not intimidated by large areas becuae I have the best tools and results are seen in 9-18 months for most any size area as long as a schedule is adhered to as advised. Many people are very happy that skilled, updated electrologists exist, because there would be nowhere to turn to after laser. It's good you are trained in both modalities. Laser provides many with great results and at the other end of the scale, impartial to no results. A good electrologist can bring anyone home to the goal they envison in a decent amount of time, and many times, faster than a laser. My business has increased substantially because of laser (thank you laser!) as people begin to understand that the hype wasn't exactly.....as fast and painless as they they were led to believe. Also, more people have become aware of hair removal in general because of laser hair reduction (thanks again laser!). You know this already. Good luck in your career!

Dee

I agree with you that the size of area is not a problem with electrolysis, but laser has advertised that it is. The reason electrolysis is brought up so often is that most clinics/spas get their advertising from their lasers' manual or website. This is perfectly fine, but its too bad the laser company has to put down another's method. I guess that's just the name of the game.

Sorry, if I'm ranting somewhat. Until reading old hair route magazines, I was unaware of what the electrolysis industry went through in the late 90's to mid 2000 because of laser. I definetly think the advertising was a big part of it. You would think there is some kind of law of ethics involved in advertising?

I'm sure this topic (laser vs electrolysis) have been done to death by now...so I'll shut up