First off all, i wanna say that the message board looks great.
now, i have a question: i used kalo once on my chest and it seems that im getting the wished results- thiner and lighter hair. is it going to last for good or the follicle will be able to complete its cycle and eventually the hair will fall off? i really dont understand how this stuff works.

Thanks for the kind words, quaterman!

Kalo is one of the many products that no one understands how it works, because it hasn't been demonstrated in published clinical studies whether it works or not. The reduction in hair that many consumers report could be coming from the pre-treatment epilating they recommend, instead of from their cream.

Until the active ingredient in Kalo is tested under controlled clinical conditions, there's really no proof whether it works or not. Hair removal is a very complicated issue, and these people put their products on the market without doing the testing required to back their claims.

I would like any comment or info about "Hair No More". This is a 2 part use system where you first remove the hair then use either a gel or spray cooler/inhibitor. Body builders are using this products and it was recommended to club members who had course dark hair issues! The product has been used religiously by a male body builder but we have no information about female use of this product.

Hey Kelly--

I just posted some info on Hair No More under its own thread (click below):

Hair No More (WARNING!)

Oops. My answer wasn't very clear.

Epilating with a rotary epilator, or waxing, etc. has not been shown to have a permanent effect on hair growth.

What I meant to say was that regular epilation will mean you have less hair to deal after the first time you do it. That's because the first time, you'll have a lot of mature hair that isn't actively growing. Since only a third of your hair is growing at any given moment, the hair that grows back in will not be as much at first. If you let it grow back for six months or so, it would return to the original levels, but until then, it would take a while for all the hairs to get back into their growth cycles.

That's why many people mistakenly think they may be getting permanent hair reduction when they first start waxing or using a rotary epilator. It seems like there is less hair at first, and they jump to the conclusion that it's never coming back.

In fact, that's why unproven products like Kalo encourage users to epilate. They know many people will think Kalo is working, because they mistakenly think the epilation and/or the Kalo are removing hair for good.

Kalo and other over-the-counter "hair inhibitors" have no proof their active ingredient can reduce hair in controlled clinical studies. They say their active ingredient is an herbal concoction.

Kentucky Fried Chicken has seven secret herbs and spices... and there's just as much published about Kalo's results under controlled conditions for hair removal (i.e., nothing). So instead of Kalo, maybe people should just get a bucket of KFC!

So to summarize:

• rotary epilators: temporary
• topical hair inhibitors: temporary
• prescription Vaniqa: permanent for some (requires continuous use)

[ May 09, 2002, 04:25 PM: Message edited by: Andrea ]

This isn't an actual reply - i'm new and couldn't figure out how to post an entirely new message.
I have a queries regarding a new product on the market - Biore Skin Smoothing moisturizer.

I have a few stray hairs on my chin that i pluck and bleach, but i'm looking for a product that will minimize my need to use these methods.

If anyone has tried it, let me know.

Vaniqa's my next resort, but an over-the-counter product is more accessible to me, on my student's budget.

I started a new topic about that product, J.R.!

I've moved all "shave minimizing" lotions, like Curel, Biore, and Jergens to the Shaving/Trimming forum. Unlike topical preparations discussed in this forum, these products do not make claims that they affect the growth rate of hair. They merely claim they affect the appearance of visible hair, by softening it and making it easier to shave.

[ May 10, 2002, 11:57 AM: Message edited by: Andrea ]

Thanks, Andrea.

i have used kalo and i actually think it works...i realize that its not proven and may work different for everyone but i've been using it for a while and i have seen progress. to test i tweeze only a couple hairs manually and use it on them so i can keep a control on how its progressing. some hairs in the area have not come back at all and others have become much thinner. these are just what i've seen, others may not have had such good results. hope i helped somebody.

Hi Jon--

Thanks for joining and posting!

Consumer tests are anecdotal and not scientific, but there are a few ways you can be more specific that might be helpful for others. Could you tell us the following things:

1. date you started use
2. area of your body you've treated
3. control area you mentioned (area and size)
4. method of epilation
5. treatment schedule with the topical

For instance, if you removed hair on both arms with the same method, but only treated one with Kalo, this could be an interesting observation, although it would still not be scientific.

What I'm trying to do with these boards is to be as specific as possible about consumer results. Over the years, many people have written to me that a product is working for them, but when I check back at six or twelve months, they say that it didn't work as well as they said at first.

I assume you are epilating all the hairs in the area you're treating. The tough part about all this is telling what's caused by the epilation and what's caused by the topical.

Because these guys didn't do any published clinical studies before they started selling this stuff, there's no way to know if you're seeing a placebo effect or not.

Consumers often look to other consumers for informtaion on whether a hair removal product works or not, but it's really hard for a consumer to tell. One, because they usually want it to work; and two, because you have to wait a long time to see if it's had a lasting effect.

I'm interested in hearing from people who are trying these products, but like Jon, I want to emphasize that these are not proven. Some people are willing to take that chance, which is fine. But if you can't afford to lose time or money to a product that may not work, I recommend sticking to stuff backed up by legitimate published scientific data.

Thanks again for the post, Jon!

alright, i'll try to do this as best that i can ...
1. i started using kalo in middle march, the 17th i think.

2. i've treated the back of my HANDS/FINGERS and FEET and plan to move on to other areas.

3. i was skeptical at first so i just wanted to try only a fairly small area to see if i would get any type of result at all. i tried it on the back of my hands some on my feet, where the hair was not extremely thick but enought that i would be able to tell if there were results. indeed there were, more so on my feet than on my hands but i saw progress. so i stopped on my feet because i'm satisfied with that now. now on my hands i admit i still have some work to do but many of the hairs do not come back as the product says. the ones that have are noticeably thinner which do not make it look near as bad.

4. ok, now i know waxing and all the other methods are great, but to keep a better control on the hair, i stuck to tweezing them out one by one. the key is gettin the hair from the root, which is fairly easy with tweezing if you do it right.

5. although i want to rid my body of a lot of the hair, i must admit that i am lazy and do not want to do all six treatments as suggested by kalo. i do one immediately after tweezing and follow up with one or two more applications when the first dries. very rarely do i even do it the second day as suggested. i probably would get even better results if i did it as specifically directed.

*ok, now kalo says that it will slow hair growth after shaving. i tried this only on my upper lip just to see if this too was true. sure enough, it did. usually by the end of the day it is rough to the touch, not really to look at but enough that i want to slow it down. kalo says you will see results with this after a week or two, but it worked much faster for me, after one application.

I can see why you warn people so much about these inhibitors because many probably are scams. i just wanted to post my results so far so maybe i could help someone, but even the kalo company says that it may not work for everyone or as well for some as others. i just decided to take a chance because i hate hair. i guess i'm just a lucky one, hope kalo can continue helping me. sorry my response was soo long, just a lot of information. thanks for letting me post. the board looks great!

Thanks for the reply, Jon. Perhaps you could use Kalo on one hand and not the other as directed for a while, and see if others can tell any difference between the two.

As I've said before, this is not scientific, but the only way to tell anything about long-term results is to give continuing progress reports.

Their website claims: "Kalo does not need to be used for the rest of your life." The real test will be after you're done using it. They claim "You will never need to deal with waxing, tweezing, laser or electrolysis again." I have yet to see that borne out by consumers who have gone one year after final use.

andrea,

have you used kalo for yourself? i dont see why you advise against it and try to say that its the pre-treatment other than the kalo that causes the reduction. i honestly believe kalo works. i have seen a great reduction in hair because for the past month and a half or so i've let the hair on my hands grow and they're so much thinner and less noticeable. i started kalo in march and have only done a couple sessions. i know if i continue that they will eventually be gone. i suggest kalo to everyone and really dont see why you advise against it if you haven't tried it yourself. even quaterman says he saw a thinning in his hair. i mean, come on give them some credit here.

[ May 22, 2002, 05:06 PM: Message edited by: jon ]

Hi Jon--

I received a sample of Kalo from the manufacturer a while back and did not find any quantifiable difference in hair amount on my treated vs. untreated hand at six and twelve months after final treatment.

Six weeks is too soon to tell if a hair inhibitor is working or not. But the real test with a product like Kalo is to stop using it. They claim it's permanent, but there are no consumers who have been able to confirm permanent results at six and twelve months after they stop using it.

Kalo may appear to be working, but the progress is quite likely a placebo effect rather than a legitimate reduction. You won't know for sure for half a year, and by then, you've helped them move more product with premature reports of success, before there's been enough time to evaluate the results.

As I've said before, it's like fad diets. You'll get all kinds of people swearing this or that diet or method works at the onset, but a year later they're usually telling a different story. Hair removal is the same way. Permanence can only be judged based on long-term results, and six weeks isn't long enough.

For the record, I'mn not slamming anyone who reports their progress here. I'm just pointing out that most consumers don't understand how hard it is to evaluate a claim of permanent hair removal based on short-term individual results.

I'm hoping you'll continue to report back your progress as time goes on!

jon, is think kalo is great product and i did have a reductionin the hair growth. yet, i find it enoying that nisim cannot answer all the consumers questions regarding to kalo.
i asked tom (the forum moderator)if i can achieve only permanent reduction and not full elimination and he told me that "they feel the hair will eventually grow back to normal but they never tested it" then he asked me to test it myself and keep them posted as if i was participating in their clinical trials. and another thing, kalo seems to work only in few areas, in my back it had no affect at all.

quaterman,

i know what you're saying when they won't answer your questions. but i think he meant that if its only used to make hairs thinner, they will grow back to normal. so are you still using kalo? it's made hairs thinner everywhere i've tried it so far which is several places now. let's hope it will keep it up!

What are the chances that Jon does not work for Halo?

Anyway, I ordered some Halo. I'll give it a try, why not. I don't
suspect it will work, but what do I have to lose?

I would get laser treatment (for back and chest), but it is prohibitively
expensive for the moment. After learning the prices, I actually
thought about starting my own office offering the service! It is
a cash cow.

Welcome, Hairy!

I like to think everyone here has the decency to be honest, but of course, we can't verify this online.

Many consumers feel as you do about trying an unproven method-- "what do I have to lose?" In fact, marketers of these products know that the price point they can set is between $20 and $30. With that, they'll have enough people buy their product, because they are enough people who are willing to blow that much if it doesn't work. Then it's just an economy of scale. 90 million US households, maybe 10 million hear of their product and 2% respond to their ad... poof! 4 to 6 million in revenues!

A scam like IGIA tweezers can make $75 million in a year, and some people would kill their own mothers for that kind of money.

Kalo and others are literally banking on people willing to blow $30 on something that may or may not work. Either way, they still win, so it doesn't really matter to them if it works. That's why they start selling the product without any published proof of their claims.

[ May 28, 2002, 10:05 PM: Message edited by: Andrea ]

no..i dont work for Kalo. i know you cant tell this online but i swear i'm seeing some sort of results. i just hope that kalo can keep this up and is not a disappointment in the end. only time will tell.

I am currently tweezing both feet and using Kalo on the right one. It's only been slightly more than two weeks so I obviously can't see any results yet, but maybe in two months or so I'll give you an update. Even if it doesn't work I'll just get my money back.

Quarterman, they didn't answer your question because that's not what the product is intended for.

And no, Jon does not work for Nisim. I'm 99.9 percent sure, just from reading the posts he makes on the Nisim message board.

[ June 05, 2002, 02:12 AM: Message edited by: Malanagaster ]

yeah malan., i had a lot of questions when i started using kalo and for a while thereafter. i dont say much on the nisim message board anymore.

Welcome, Melanagaster! Definitely keep us posted over the next year!

I agree that I think almost everyone so far on the board is on the up and up, including Jon. We had someone from one of the quack boards here early on, but they don't seem to post any more.

As I've said, I am very glad to have consumers of hair inhibitors posting here. We'll try to be more specific about consumer experiences here, compared to the quack forums.

i remember once that some1 on the message board said that most of the posts were against kalo and 1 day latter some1 called "Brenda H" (if she has a last name she must be a real person) said that "kalo was working for her" how stupid do they think we are? she never posted before and again

That message does look a little suspicious, Quaterman. It sounds like one of those "testimonials" you see on late night infomercials.

I really hope that you're wrong, though. That's a pretty dirty way to sell something, although it's probably very effective.

Still, I'm convinced that most, if not all, of the posters on the Kalo message board are legit. The true test is whether the results they are seeing can last.

Hey, I'm glad I found this site, it's very informative. But, from the looks of it, you(as in the webmaster) haven't even tried most of these products so I'm unsure as to whether you should be giving them such a bad rep? Are you the ultimate skeptic? (I don't mean to be rude, but in my lifetime I've seen many people say "That can't be possible" only for them to see first hand results, ultimately changing their whole idealism of such issues).

Although, I don't really feel like being ripped off, I'm still open to trying products before saying they're worthless - Due to the fact that I cannot stand hair, and hate wasting time removing it. With that said, I definitely want something that will work. I'm new to the whole hair inhibitor theory, it seems too great to be true, but am willing to give it a try. From the looks of it "Kalo" is a possibility? I had given serious consideration to "Ultra Hair Away", but their sites are filled with so much hype, and such big promises, that it does make me wonder, and having you point out all of their mirror sites makes it seem a little shady.

Here's where I stand on hair removal - I've tried depilatory lotions such as "Nair", which of course, do not work, smells horrific, burns my sensitive skin, and should not be sold, unless people want to use it as a smelly air fresherner(some people have bad smell fetishes). I hate shaving, it's so futile, the hair grows back immediately, it's so time consuming, razor burn, nicks, cuts, scars, headache. Waxing, can you say "self inflicted pain"? Then you have to wait for the hair to grow out enough for you to re-yank it out, yay? Tweezing - I don't mind doing my eye brows with this, but it does hurt like hell, and makes my eyes water. The only thing I like about this, is looking at the root, after a highly successful yank, hahahaha. As for any other part of the body, it's too much pain, and would take forever, & I haven't even bothered trying(probably because I'm not completely brain dead, but who knows what those depilatory lotions have done to my valuable brain cells). So along comes the info, that there's supposedly a product that gradually makes hair growth non existent, I must say the whole idea is thrilling, I only hope it works. I will research it further and try to find out if there's something extraordinary out there, that I have missed.

Well, thanks to all who've shared their stories about various products. If I get around to trying something, I will come back here and tell you all about my progress, or therefore lack of.

Goodluck to each of you in your search of finding the miracle product that will forever remove this wretched hair.

I think a product like Kalo is definitely worth a shot. It has a money back guarantee so you have nothing to lose. Most of the messages on their board have been positive, so I think that Kalo has some effect on the hair.

However, lately I've been doubting its "permanent" results. It just seems a little hard to believe that a nonpresciption herbal cream could have a permanent effect. Nisim also sells a shampoo that stops hairloss, and an extract that will regrow hair. A small Canadian company has discovered an end to hirsutism and male pattern baldness? That seems pretty unbelievable to me.

Well, whatever, I'm still going to try it and hope for the best.

[ June 08, 2002, 07:46 AM: Message edited by: Malanagaster ]

Jaclyn, I loved your description of each hair removal method. I related to each one!

I don't think Andrea's trying to give things she hasn't tried a bad rap, though. I think it's just like ... the product advertisers are trying so hard to tell us everything's going to work and be great and all our problems will be solved if we give them our money ... Andrea's sort of being the hand-on-the-shoulder, 'Don't run over there, examine it first' kind of voice. Which I think is a great thing to be.

I especially liked your description of delapitories. Those things drive me crazy. They've never worked for me - never. And they stink and burn and leave stubble. I hate them. And the shave that lasts five minutes - ain't it the truth?

Anyway, I liked your post!

Andrea:

Have you had a lot of people reporting complete regrowth after they stopped using Kalo?

Malanagaster, the problem is finding consumers who are still willing to talk about it one year after completing use of Kalo etc. Among those who sent me their experiences, the negative reports are overwhelming.

Believe me, if these guys up in Canada had solved the problem of unwanted hair growth with a painless inexpensive spray, the big pharmaceuticals and consumer products multinationals would have bought them out years ago or come out with a cheaper clone and run them out of business. I've done work for big package-goods companies, and they wouldn't sit around if a couple of dudes had solved such a major consumer issue by mixing up some herbal concoction. They'd be on it like white on rice on a paper plate in a snowstorm.

Ted is going officially on record and is giving two thumbs down to Kalo.

While it appeared over the months to be working, that doesn't seem to be the case now.

Now I gotta figure out how to get rid of all of these damn red dots on my stomach. Hopefully they will just grow out. And hopefully they aren't scarred over.

These things look sick, by the way, I mean it looks like an outbreak of bad acne.

[ June 13, 2002, 11:40 PM: Message edited by: Ted Striker ]

Ugh, that sounds bad. Did you get those from waxing or epilating?
So all the hair grew back, even the areas that were completely smooth? Bugger, I just got my Kalo.
So many people are reporting good results over there but I'm guessing they're all just seeing temporary results.
Did you get your refund promptly, no questions asked?

Ted, thanks for sharing your opinion.

The real truth with these products only comes out from LONG-TERM observation of results.

They may seem like they are doing something at first (because so many of us want them to work), but I don't know anyone who has been pleased at six or twelve months after they stopped using it.

They make their money off the placebo effect many consumers see and report to others. But when it comes down to a serious long-term test, these products don't seem to be up to the challenge.

I'm sorry to hear about the red dots from the epilator. the most common problems are mild infection and sun following treatment. Some people who are susceptible to keloids may also have problems with epilators.

If it has been more than a few days after treatment with an epilator, and you still see red bumps, you should consider consulting with a dermatologist. This sort of reaction is unusual from epilation, although some consumers are prone to more serious side effects than others.

ted striker, how long did u use kalo? j/w

the refund is for 2 bottles thats what tom says.

I thought it was for all the bottles. I think Tom just said they prefer it if you return after two bottles.

Ah well I didn't get my money back, I haven't tried yet. I will let you know when I do.

I got the red bumps from the epilator. It's been about 6-8 weeks since I quit using it, so there are still hairs that are still trying to poke their way though.

I used Kalo for about 6 months, epilating about once every 3 weeks.

Andrea,

I noticed in the past that even with shaving, I've had problems on that area of my stomach with red bumps. I think that area is just too sensitive. I think some day when I get the cash I might consider the laser. Good thing is that they aren't keloids. When all of these heal up, I may test out shaving, with some of the red bump stoppers, on a test patch, and see how that goes.

Related to this, the back of my triceps are succeptible as well to not pink BUMPS, but just like, pinkness. I think that's called keratosis? I know it occurs most often in people with pale skin (I have really pale skin).

Sorry for being short with anybody on the internet, especially to you Malanagaster. As Andrea has said about sometimes when people step forward, it's a bit embarrassing when you are vocal about results, especially something as touchy as your appearance.

[ June 18, 2002, 12:08 AM: Message edited by: Ted Striker ]