"As I've mentioned many times here, I was sent some Kalo by Tom himself in April 2001 and found that it did not permanently remove the hair as they claim. The hair returned by three months after I finished the tube."

So you are saying it worked, and slowed hair growth, thinnned the hair, etc, etc, but that after you stopped using it, the effects vanished and you were back to your thick stubble? So wait a minute, if this is the case, why aren't you saying something to this effect, because THAT'S A BIG HELP. I mean, all I know, is that basically I've been using it everytime I shave for the past 3 or 4 months (I have the receipt somewhere), and it has seriously slowed the regrowth, and the area where I have applied it has a lot less hair, and it's light and furry as opposed to dark and stubbly. Did you have this experience? If you did, then you should be *plugging this product*, and not badmouthing it, because a LOT of people would be very happy with those results, I know I am. I mean, to be honest, I dont' really care if the effects are reversed after I stop using it, because you know what, I'm not going to stop! There's no reason to. The stuff is dirt cheap for what it does. I still have like 3 months supply left or something. I dunno, I'm skeptical of your "studies", something tells me they were half-hearted, and who knows, maybe you have applied so much other crap to your skin in that area that it's already hosed.

"But you know what? I could never have used it and still be completely accurate in everything I've said."

Right, or, you could have been completely inaccurate! In any case, having never used it, your statements would be absolutely meaningless, right? Anyway, I'm glad to hear you tried it, and I apologize for being so abrasive, that was the thing that was pissing me off the most. I wasn't being defensive, just pissed at the apparant stupidity I saw, but it looks like that's not the case, so, sorry.

"There is no proof that this stuff can cause permanent hair removal as they claim."

Like I said, who cares about the "permanent" side of things. If you are admitting that it works, when applied, as it did for me, and apparently this jon guy, then you should seriously consider putting this on your website, instead of calling the product a complete dud!

"The issue at hand is their claims that use of this product will cause permanent hair removal. There is no proof of this. Pure and simple."

No, the issue is not whether it will cause permanent hair removal, the issue is the whether the product works! Whether it slows hair growth significantly, and turns stubbly thick hair into fine, thin, and much less visible hair, that is the issue! That is VERY useful to people, it was certainly useful to me and has improved my looks and self esteem a lot. If you want to claim that it doesn't cause permanent hair removal, whatever, I don't know if it does or it doesn't, I'll tell ya in a year or so, k?

"Amy Banu , the reason RudeBoy is so defensive .."

Blah blah, woof woof. Look, the real crooks are the cats wearing nice suits, driving porsches, and on your telly with that beautiful re-assuring smile, not the scrubby scrubs like me posting on newsgroups. I'm biased, fine, factor my statements a little and take them with a grain of salt.

"Bottom line: I have yet to see a single shred of evidence to back up the claim that Kalo will remove hair forever as they claim."

Actually, I will agree with you here, because I haven't either. Actually I think they mention that it's only after six months that you *might* get permanent results, and the main emphasis is on slowing the hair growth and thinning the hair, so if I am remembering wrong, or they changed their claims, and are promising immediate and permanent hair removal, then I will have to say that this hasn't been true in my experience, and the effects are very slow to manifest themselves, and can only say that they may or may not be permanent. Still, and I know I sound like a broken record, because something tells me you won't answer this satisfactorily: it definitely slows growth, in a significant manner, and definitely thins the hair, also in a significant manner. If you found this to be true (how long did you use it, by the way?), then you should post these findings to your website, because I don't think as many people as you think are requiring permanent hair removal, I think a lot of people would be happy with this result, especially in light of the fact that it is completely painless, unlike the other products I've tried.

hold on now rudeboy, i only said it "appears to be working". hairs are thinner and grow slower, thats all so far.

do you work for kalo rudeboy?

<<hold on now rudeboy, i only said it "appears to be working". hairs are thinner and grow slower, thats all so far.>>

Ok, let's define this a little further, this is getting a little fuzzy.

We have two seperate types of situations in fighting unwanted hair:

LEVEL I:

Level I is defined to be the following:

-Significantly slowed hair regrowth
-Thinner and lighter colored hair (it feels more like peach fuzz as opposed to feeling like stubble).

LEVEL II:

- Complete hair removal, but only temporary, and the product must be continually re-applied to maintain the results. (What Kalo claims to eventually do, after prolonged continuous usage over six months or so, and what it is generally accepted that Laser can do)

LEVEL III:

Complete, total, irreversible, hair removal on the area, with discontinued use of the product. (I Laser removal claims to do this after prolonged usage over a few years, but not sure on this)

So personally, I have *definitely*, *without a doubt* experienced Level I with this product. From the sound of it, you have too. You say that "hairs are thinner and grow slower" (!!), but then give the disclaimer, which is stupid in my opinion, of "that's all so far". Dude, THATS PROGRESS. I mean, aren't you happy with that progress? Doesn't that tell you that, well, something is happening, and the product is actually working? And gee, no burning either. Wow, what an amazing product! And here we have Andrea, with an all caps statement "AVOID THIS PRODUCT AT ALL COSTS", doesn't that strike you as *bad advice*, given your positive results? What if, and I'm confident this is the case, your continued usage resulted in further slowing, and further thinning of the hair? You'd be pretty happy, wouldn't you? How long have you been using it? How often are you using it? Are you using it in conjunction w/ shaving or waxing?

It sounds like you have basically got Level I results, but are expecting Level II results, and so you say it only "appears to be working". I have to disagree, and say if you have Level I results, it's working, it's just not at Level II yet. I mean sheesh, I say be happy with Level I, and hope for Level II or III.

So, the million dollar question, do you recommend the product? Was it worth the money spent so far?

WTF rudeboy, do you have to break down what everyone says? that really gets old. no im not satisfied. until i achieve permanent results i will not be completely happy. yes i am glad they're thinner but i do have to tweeze every couple weeks on my hands, and maybe once or twice a month on my upper arm. i have waxed my upper arm and applied kalo...results may be a little better than with tweezing but not a whole lot. hairs are thinner on my arm with less applications than on my hands. and i would maybe recommend this product but i still need to see what its going to do. this is a hair inhibitor that claims permanence, not slowed growth. if they advertised slowed growth then maybe i'd be happy. take this one apart and i wont reply anymore rudeboy. not to you anyhow. THATS ALL FOR NOW.

Jeez, don't get all emotional on me. The reason we are posting to this board is to exchange information and get to the truth about this product, no? So in that sense, I think dissecting people's statements is actually important here.

Anyway, to answer your question, yeah, I have an affiliate link to Kalo on my website: www.ThaManual.com Part of the reason I created the website was because I was a bit flabbergasted at how effective this product was, along with a few other products on that website (cough, cough), so I figured I would try to do myself a favor and try to develop a side residual income stream, since that is a very good path to wealth over the long term (eg, buy high-risk stocks with that "free" money). But listen, even though I am an evil greedy capitalist, it doesn't mean I'm feeding you lies... in fact, you yourself have made some pretty strong statements on the product (try scrolling up in this forum). Anyway, I think you will agree that the real crooks are the ones wearing suits and running your telco company, not the scrubs like me posting on newsgroups and the like. Yeah, I might be fibbing, due to economic bias, so just factor my statements with a grain of salt.

Well, I agree with your statement that the company is unethical if the usage of the product does not lead to permanent hair removal, but I don't share the same lack of confidence, because from the looks of it, at least in my own case, I think it will probably give permanent results -- I mean, my hair growth is really starting to slow down, as compared to say a month ago, and it wouldn't surprise me if eventually it stopped altogether. But again, I really don't even care if I have to continue using the product, to me it's no big deal, it's priced reasonably enough that I'd be spending like $150 a year on it, which isn't much money given how much happier I am with my looks. (I'm using it on my previously excessively hairy back-of-neck). So in my mind, I think their claims are probably true, and with long term use it leads to permanent removal, but I can't yet claim to have experienced that yet. (and again, don't even care that much).

Oh yeah, you didn't answer my questions! How long ya been using it? etc

By the way, the company has a user forum of their own, so maybe you could go there and post your concerns about not getting permanent results, yet.

http://www.nisim.com/kalo/messageBoard.htm

Andrea:

In my mind, every day you don't post an answer to my questions about your usage of the product, you're credibility will be spiralling downwards in my eyes. Even this 24 hour lag tells me that your confidence levels on your statements are quite low.

I would like to know exactly how long you used it, what part of your body you used it on, what other products you used on that part of your body, and how frequently you applied it, whether you applied it after shaving, waxing, tweezing, etc. Don't think that these questions are too personal, because you are running a website about hair removal, and if you made some claims about a dud product, and claim to have actually used it, you should obviously post as much information about your usage. Your statements were a little on the unclear side (which I find extremely ironic given you are running a website trying to find the truth about these products), and you hinted at the fact that you got "some results", but that the results reverted after three months usage. Please be more specific on what results you actually saw.

I'm going on vacation for a while, so please don't my lack of response as an indication of being short of words.

I know how you are probably going to reply, and try to get emotional, call me names, and turn this into some sort of flame war, but I strongly discourage this, it's stupid and completely meaningless.

Let's hear your answers.

omg rudeboy you really are stupid. if you'd check out the rest of the site, andrea has quite a job here. now, i've used it for about 4 months. and i have posted on the message board there at the site with my questions, if you'd go there you might see them. nobody's gettin emotional here, but you seem so fake its not even funny.

Hi RudeBoy--

As I said in my first post, the reason Kalo should be avoided by all consumers in my opinion are misleading claims like the following:

quote:

---

“Kalo safely and effectively inhibits unwanted body hair from growing back permanently. You will never need to deal with waxing, tweezing, laser or electrolysis again.”

“Kalo is a true permanent hair removal solution. Kalo does not need to be used for the rest of your life.”

“Eliminate unwanted body hair forever.”

---

These are completely unproven claims. If they were based in the US, I'd have the FDA on their permanent claims the way FDA got on Epil-Stop for the same claims.

I don't need to own a Corvair to know that it can flip taking sharp turns, and I don't need to own a Pinto to warn others that they can catch fire during rear-end collisions. First-hand experience is not the be-all and end-all. In fact, as I said in my first post, testimonials are a cornerstone of a quack's success. Rarely do consumers like you understand how difficult it is to evaluate a hair removal product based on personal experience. That's why my own experiences with Kalo are no substitute for the kind of rigorous testing they need to do to back up their claims that using Kalo means you will remove the hair for the rest of your life.

As for details of my own use, I used Kalo on one hand and wrist until the tube was gone. I used a rotary epilator on both areas as usual. Three months after I finished the tube, the hair had grown back at the same rate on both hands. There was no indication during use that the hair was inhibited, and the hair returned to its normal density and thickness on both hands.

Tell you what. Do a similar unscientific test on yourself. Choose a body area and do one side with Kalo and one without, then do the exact same hair removal methods on both sides at the same intervals. Whenever you complete your Kalo treatment, post here to let us know. Then post again at six and twelve months and tell us what you see. If you have permanent hair removal that never returns as they claims, I will be very, very surprised.

Keep in mind that your or my personal experinece is highly unscientific, which is why a legitimate company does tests involving hundreds of subjects. Even with a legitimate product like Vaniqa, the clinical tests showed that hundreds of consumers using a placebo with no active ingredient were observed to have reduction in hair. This is far more difficult to measure than you can do on your own. That's why I expect companies to provide rigiorous scientific proof. First-hand reports of short-term results like yours are not science, they're quackery. Unfortunately, many consumers think that this kind of report is believeable.

It's like fad diets. You know how everyone was doing the Atkins diet a few years ago, where you don't eat any carbs? I personally knew a dozen people who were swearing up and down about how great it worked and how much weight they lost. But if you check back with those people a year later, 95% or more will be at or above the weight when they started. You know why? Because their success was based on short-term observations. With things like weight loss and hair removal, short-term observations are worthless. Permanent means forever. That means they only was to judge true permanence is long-term observation.

Where are all the hairless people who started using Kalo when it came out and haven't needed it for a year? I've never been able to verify a single person who has had this happen.

As long as Kalo makes promotional claims that they can cause permanent hair removal with no proof that this is true, they should be avoided. This is eceptive advertising, pure and simple. If they were in the US, I'd have the feds all over them.

Fair enough. The claims they are making don't seem well supported. I agree that their literature should be re-worded and not promise "permanent removal" until it is demonstrated more clearly as such. What you said about a crackdown by the Feds if they were in the US is probably true. Just goes to show how much the Internet changes the rules of the game.

But to me, in my personal experience, the stuff actually works, and even if it doesn't live up to their claims, I think the product has definite merit as a hair inhibitor. They have some scientific evidence of that with their clinical trial -- which although was not done to the same rigor as Vaniqa -- still shows *something*. I agree that a more rigorous and credible study should be done.

Whether it causes "permanent" hair removal -- I have no idea, but it sure seems like it is going down that path. It's taking the "oomf" out of my hair growth. My hair in the unwanted area used to be like a demon which I feared, growing back immediately and with passion, and now it is like a little imp, with all of it's energy having been magically zapped.

I really don't care if it leads to "permanent" removal, I mean, if I stop using it and the hair returns to its normal luster -- I'll just go buy some more and continue using it. If I have to keep rubbing this stuff on the rest of my life, so be it, as long as it works. The stuff is pretty cheap in comparison to how worthwhile the results are.

Well, maybe laser would be more cost effective in that case. The thing that worried me about laser though, which is part of the reason I was stalling to have it done, was that I was fearing a "black and white" result -- where one day I am a hairy ape, and the next day I'm hairless, it seemed like it would have been "too obvious". With this kalo stuff it has been a much more "stealth" hair removal process.

I find it interesting that you are suggesting placebo effect. I mean, on hair removal? That would be pretty amazing, but I'm sure that more amazing placebos have been recorded. Such as curing cancer, etc. Maybe it is a placebo, and that's why you didn't get results, you didn't want it to work badly enough!