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#66918 - 10/24/09 08:50 AM A blend adapted to these times.
depilacionelectr
Unregistered


Hello everyone, I wonder if some of Hairtell electrologist, works with the Galvanic Blend less than a second. Thanks

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#66923 - 10/24/09 02:43 PM Re: A blend adapted to these times. [Re: ]
Arlene R. Batz, CPE Offline

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Registered: 01/14/05
Posts: 1159
Loc: New York City - Queens
Sodium hydroxide takes a few seconds to develop in the follicle therefore, blend activity would not take place.
_________________________
Arlene Batz, CPE: Educator, Board Certified Electrologist, NYS Licensed Esthetician.
http://endunwantedhair.com

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#66924 - 10/24/09 04:16 PM Re: A blend adapted to these times. [Re: Arlene R. Batz, CPE]
depilacionelectr
Unregistered


The chemical reaction is to speed up the heat.
If simultaneously starting two electric currents, it can achieve hair removal in less than 1 second.
Frankly, the laws of physics are useful only if I can improve my work.
I think the direct current can only be an auxiliary alternating current.In the past, this extra help, served to enhance my thermolysis at 13.56 MHz. Today, the improvement has occurred thanks to the 27 MHz frequency.


Edited by depilacionelectr (10/24/09 05:01 PM)

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#66929 - 10/24/09 08:16 PM Re: A blend adapted to these times. [Re: ]
dfahey Offline

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Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 9611
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
Originally Posted By: depilacionelectr
Hello everyone, I wonder if some of Hairtell electrologist, works with the Galvanic Blend less than a second. Thanks


No. I agree with Arlene. Do you know something we don't?
_________________________
Dee Fahey, R.N., C.T.
Licensed by the State Medical Board of Ohio for Nursing license and Cosmetic Therapy/Electrolysis license
_____________________
ELECTROLYSIS FAQ'S:

British Institute & Association of Electrolysis

http://www.electrolysis.co.uk/?page_id=16

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#66933 - 10/24/09 09:15 PM Re: A blend adapted to these times. [Re: dfahey]
depilacionelectr
Unregistered


I think not, Dee. But you seem a practical (I say about your preference for thermolysis).
Do not you think it is absurd to extend the current application time, when you can get the same results without those extra seconds?
There is a chemical reaction in a split second, enough so that the needle is kept clean during the duration of the session. In the thermolysis, there is enough tissue damage to the hair is removed irreversibly. When working at 13.56 MHz stick remains on the needle. This does not occur if we add a little galvanic. Neither happens if we work at 27 MHz

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#66935 - 10/25/09 12:21 AM Re: A blend adapted to these times. [Re: ]
Arlene R. Batz, CPE Offline

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Registered: 01/14/05
Posts: 1159
Loc: New York City - Queens
What textbooks did you read? Who are the authors?
Were they translated from another language?

Its the electrocoagulation that takes place in a fraction of a second. Galvanic requires more time even when thermolysis is administered simultaneously or sequentially.

In any event, if you have discovered something new, it would
be quite exciting to read your source material and see what
happens when implemented.
_________________________
Arlene Batz, CPE: Educator, Board Certified Electrologist, NYS Licensed Esthetician.
http://endunwantedhair.com

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#66937 - 10/25/09 02:00 AM Re: A blend adapted to these times. [Re: Arlene R. Batz, CPE]
James W. Walker VII Offline

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Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 8050
Loc: Buffalo NY, & Traveling the US...
Mike Bono has done lots with this type of thing, but most purists agree that it would not qualify to be called Blend. It is more accurate to say that it is Thermolysis with a galvanic current to keep the probe/needle clean. It is still effective, but the efficacy is owed to the high frequency current, not the galvanic companion.

I am unaware of any text books, or published work on the subject. It has been something that I have heard lots about in discussions with other practitioners. I guess that is one more thing that will have to wait for a Text Book of Un-Orthodox Electrolysis Practices.
_________________________
http://www.executiveclearance.com/beforeandafter.html
Setting a goal is not the main thing. It is deciding how you will go about achieving it and staying with that plan. --- Tom Landry
Has this site helped you? Pay it forward. Donate to keep HairTell & Hairfacts Online at http://www.hairfacts.com/feedback/support-this-site/

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#66941 - 10/25/09 10:42 AM Re: A blend adapted to these times. [Re: James W. Walker VII]
depilacionelectr
Unregistered


Arlene, I think I have not found anything of interest to editors specialized in electrolysis, (unless any of them suffer hirsutism).
But no book I've read, never exceed the scientific rigor that have involved 30 years as a professional, responsible and love of the electrolysis.

I feel bad that even today, the electrologists maintain a debate on an issue that hurts so much to us and our customers. Unfortunately, electrolysis is best known for its slow pace due to its high effectiveness. It is time for this to change and any editor will do for us electrologist.

James, the only orthodox theory that allows me to my conscience, is one that favors the client in all aspects, quality, cleanliness and speed. If for that I must act against all the recommendations contained in the books, I will without hesitation.

Hinkel's book is very good, but contains statements with which I disagree, and that the thermolysis is less effective than galvanic.

The book by Richards and Meharg, not bad, but my experience is not consistent with some aspects recommended.
Sheila Godfrey's book is more of the same

Bono's book, is all I need to read, although I'd really like is difficult to achieve.

In line with what James says is true that this small amount of galvanic current is only useful to keep the needle clean. And that effectiveness is largely due to the high frequency current. But what is the problem? Effectiveness is not as important?
There is an aspect to take into account the small amount of sodium hydroxide produced in the follicle, offers more advantages of the aforementioned.
Allows diversification in follicles of different sizes in the same area.
Reduces the risk of overtreatment surface.
Help in the correct healing of the skin, etc, etc
With what we NEVER will agree, is that sodium hydroxide, more effective hair removal.








Edited by depilacionelectr (10/25/09 11:16 AM)

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#66942 - 10/25/09 11:27 AM Re: A blend adapted to these times. [Re: ]
depilacionelectr
Unregistered


Another thing, I do not care what the purists call Blend, PseudoBlend or NoBlend, what really matters is that it accelerates the process, without undermining the skin.

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#66944 - 10/25/09 02:59 PM Re: A blend adapted to these times. [Re: ]
Arlene R. Batz, CPE Offline

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Registered: 01/14/05
Posts: 1159
Loc: New York City - Queens
depilacionelectr,

If you want to attempt putting your findings on paper, indicating your approach, self publishing is easy enough. Targeting your market is also simple.

If you want help with your research, the only one that I know of, who cared enough and who also probably has easier access to labs, I believe is Dr. James Schuster - should he still be interested. It is Schuster's research that gave some authors the information that, for me, made their textbooks more credible. Personal observation isn't as respected as controlled study -- even with the understanding of the probabilities of bias.

What next? Do you have a plan to share?

At my first job 20 years ago working in electrolysis, I worked in "Blend" exclusively where galvanic was administered for about a second as that was the way Marion Ellner wanted us to work with the Fischer. I found the work to be great and loved the machine however personally, I considered it to be Thermolysis and didn't think the galvanic had time to do much of anything.

In any event, I would love to add your technique to my work in test subjects that will be told that half of their body will be done as a thermolysis technique and the other half as a high speed blend technique. Explain what you think is optimal and I will follow your plan and I will try to set up a scenario to match yours. If we can try to have the same set up, that would be great but that is highly unlikely.
_________________________
Arlene Batz, CPE: Educator, Board Certified Electrologist, NYS Licensed Esthetician.
http://endunwantedhair.com

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#66946 - 10/25/09 06:02 PM Re: A blend adapted to these times. [Re: Arlene R. Batz, CPE]
dfahey Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 9611
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
Josepha - you have an Apilus Platinum, no? I am unfamiliar with your technique and I, too, would like to learn more about what you are doing and try it myself.

Thanks.

Dee
_________________________
Dee Fahey, R.N., C.T.
Licensed by the State Medical Board of Ohio for Nursing license and Cosmetic Therapy/Electrolysis license
_____________________
ELECTROLYSIS FAQ'S:

British Institute & Association of Electrolysis

http://www.electrolysis.co.uk/?page_id=16

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#66947 - 10/25/09 06:04 PM Re: A blend adapted to these times. [Re: Arlene R. Batz, CPE]
depilacionelectr
Unregistered


I know very well the scientific rigor required, Arlene.
I myself have conducted a serious study on the effectiveness of the electrolysis. Unfortunately I had not the help of Dr Schuster, although I was very helpful assistance of Department for microscopy at the University of Malaga (Spain).
In this study the evaluation of results was quite objective, not as they do now with serial photographs, but including the number of hairs on each sweep of the area.
The findings of this study do not support any doubt. One of those conclusions is that there was no difference in the results obtained with different currents or combinations of them.

I will propose you something better than what you suggest about half of the body to work with different currents. I invite you to follow the protocol as I defend and probably obtain the same results at the same time, it's easy to reach the same conclusion.

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#66950 - 10/25/09 09:23 PM Re: A blend adapted to these times. [Re: dfahey]
depilacionelectr
Unregistered


Yes Dee, two years ago I was fortunated to work with a Platinum Apilus.
Before using a device Sorisa firm, which operates at 13.56 MHz.
I understand that the EU prohibits european manufacturers the frequency 27 MHz for cosmetic use machines.

With my old machine Spanish can be programmed less than 4 seconds for parameters of galvanic current time. This allows the two currents can be programmed to begin and end simultaneously in a second.
Which is why we are free to work a blend adapted to our needs, although purists consider this not very orthodox.

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#67371 - 11/09/09 05:01 PM Re: A blend adapted to these times. [Re: ]
beate_r Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 07/25/05
Posts: 894
Loc: Hattersheim, Germany
Interesting thread,
Originally Posted By: depilacionelectr
...although I was very helpful assistance of Department for microscopy at the University of Malaga (Spain).
In this study the evaluation of results was quite objective, not as they do now with serial photographs, but including the number of hairs on each sweep of the area.
The findings of this study do not support any doubt. One of those conclusions is that there was no difference in the results obtained with different currents or combinations of them.

It would be interesting having access to the study itself to see the details. Otherwise the discussion will stay somewhere in the mist.

BTW, i am currently experimenting in a similar direction - entirely on my own skin (legs), where blend is hurting awfully - and my first impression upon adding some amount of galvanic to flash thermolysis using a sequence of short flashes is indeed reduced scabbing and faster healings, and, of course, the needle remains clean.
Still tentative, slightly longer times (2-3 s, giving the chemical reaction its time) still too early for me to be applicable to customers.
Moreover i would not dare to use this approach with thick hair.

So, IMO it would be interesting seeing an full and systematic evaluation of such an approach - with all the details on parameters.

Beate


Edited by beate_r (11/09/09 05:04 PM)
_________________________
Beate Ritzert

Elektroepilation Dr. Beate Ritzert
http://epi.ritzert.net/en/

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#67374 - 11/09/09 09:21 PM Re: A blend adapted to these times. [Re: beate_r]
depilacionelectr
Unregistered


Beate_r, that study that we carry out, was destined principally to the consumers. Since the majority of the persons who aspire to the electrolysis, want to know (translated in numbers and percentages) what they are going to obtain in exchange for their time and money.
The principal aim was to demonstrate that following a certain protocol, the clearances in the area were limiting themselves to three.
The reduction of hairs in the treated area for each clearance was approximately 73%.
In order to obtain this high degree of success, the protocol must follow rigorously. It consists of waiting the sufficient time in order to the majority of the hairs have emerged to the surface of the skin. Certainly (for much for that we wait) will never obtain 100 % of them, but we can obtain an approximate enough number.
The interval of time between the following ones two clearances must be proportional to the type of hair that exists in the zone, i.e., 6 or 8 months for thin hair, 4 months for intermediate hair and 3 months for thick hair.

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#67443 - 11/12/09 09:19 PM Re: A blend adapted to these times. [Re: dfahey]
depilacionelectr
Unregistered


Estimated Dee, I have been testing with Blend's different options that our Apilus Platinum offers. Only the Picoblend offers the possibility of working to a second of galvanic. The difference that exists between my Spanish machine and the Apilus, is the intensity of mA.
My old Spanish machine allows to come to 2.0 mA. Apilus only comes to 0.9 mA.
I believe that this it is the reason for which I obtain more production of sodium hydroxide.
When I work with my old machine, the difference is very clear.

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#69388 - 01/30/10 01:44 PM Re: A blend adapted to these times. [Re: ]
depilacionelectr
Unregistered


It is truly amazing!! Michael Bono documented in his book an identical case to which I included in my 1996 study. This is an armpit under electrolysis, the protocol used is the same Bono who we use. It's hard to take someone on another continent along the same lines of work.

Hairtell If someone is able to communicate with Mr. Bond, I kindly ask that you convey my sincere congratulations for your book. You may be happy as much as I find a colleague to thousands of miles she has reached the same conclusiones. Here I leave the pages in my study were published.







Note: I am sorry that is written in Spanish, so I have to copy and paste into google translator is ..... what I do and believe me assure you that helps a lot to learn another language.
The link of the page is too long and can not be .sorry!!! cry

http://www.cosmobelleza.com/es/home/informacion/tecnicos/news.76882.cosmox;jsessionid=DA1D775BD24DACADB1AD03B3EB9F4BEB


http://www.cosmobelleza.com/es/home/informacion/tecnicos/news.76884.cosmox;jsessionid=69C2717B97766C4B78B1E671175A13BA


Edited by depilacionelectr (01/30/10 02:19 PM)

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#69405 - 01/31/10 02:34 AM Re: A blend adapted to these times. [Re: ]
James W. Walker VII Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 8050
Loc: Buffalo NY, & Traveling the US...
Mr. Bono is a friend of mine, and you can rest assured, that he is always happy to find that his work has made an impression on others so far away. (even more so if they actually bought a copy of his book, instead of getting a bootleg of his work.
_________________________
http://www.executiveclearance.com/beforeandafter.html
Setting a goal is not the main thing. It is deciding how you will go about achieving it and staying with that plan. --- Tom Landry
Has this site helped you? Pay it forward. Donate to keep HairTell & Hairfacts Online at http://www.hairfacts.com/feedback/support-this-site/

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#69415 - 01/31/10 11:38 AM Re: A blend adapted to these times. [Re: James W. Walker VII]
depilacionelectr
Unregistered


I agree James. But I think Mr Bono has taken so much trouble to write his book to get rich. Otherwise he would have written about something else more profitable. It is obvious that he would move a great passion for their work. Personally I think his book is the result of many years of work and an unusual generosity towards the work of the electrologist. I can see it reflected in every detail in his book that says, simply because I think, my God! is exactly what happens to me. It took almost 30 years to find a letter that fits my experiences with such precision. Hence I am so excited.

Please James, if you can talk to him thank him for me. Thanks

PD: The conclusions of their work should be published in the COCHRANE LIBRARY


Edited by depilacionelectr (01/31/10 11:41 AM)
Edit Reason: PD

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#69435 - 01/31/10 10:18 PM Re: A blend adapted to these times. [Re: ]
James W. Walker VII Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 8050
Loc: Buffalo NY, & Traveling the US...
Your kind words have been passed along.

As for the book purchase comment, I am just pointing out that many schools (especially in countries outside the US) purchased ONE copy, and sold the students Xerox pages from the book for their tuition money. None of the students ever bought a single book, but read the entire thing from the pages copied by the instructors. That is the sorrow. Mike did invest a lot of work, and let's just say it, a lot of money, and did not get half the credit, nor money he was due. This has lead to the sorry situation of his being forced to choose between letting the book fall out of print, or submit the new edition with a major amount of the original work excised and left on the editing room floor. Now the first editions are gaining value, while the new edition is just as slow selling as the first, if now more slowly selling, as there are fewer electrolysis students today than there were in the days of yesteryear.

Again, Mike thanks you for your kind words.
_________________________
http://www.executiveclearance.com/beforeandafter.html
Setting a goal is not the main thing. It is deciding how you will go about achieving it and staying with that plan. --- Tom Landry
Has this site helped you? Pay it forward. Donate to keep HairTell & Hairfacts Online at http://www.hairfacts.com/feedback/support-this-site/

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#69439 - 01/31/10 11:15 PM Re: A blend adapted to these times. [Re: James W. Walker VII]
depilacionelectr
Unregistered


A million thanks, my friend.

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