Subscribe & Support This Site!
consumer hair removal forum
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
Hop To:
#86277 - 04/22/11 11:33 PM Re: London centers with Lumenis lightsheer duet [Re: ]
JMISR Offline
Top 20 Contributor

Registered: 12/11/10
Posts: 254
Loc: Seattle, USA
Originally Posted By: edokid
Whether your skintype is based off your natural tone or not is sort of irrelevant.

On the contrary, it is extremely relevant.

Case in point: persons of east Asian decent. Though many appear to have fair skin colors, their skin differs from that of northern Europeans in structure and physiology, namely in that it is more compact with many more layers of cells. Thus, they can have underlying pigment and have a higher propensity for hyperpigmentation and burning after laser exposure - even though they may appear to be light in skin color.

However, the same anatomical and physiological differences also allow them to develop tans more readily. Since Fitzpatrick skin type is a function of both skin color AND response to UV light, they technically are usually types IV and higher, even though their skin color appears light.

That is why you can't just look at your skin color to determine your Fitzpatrick type, even though you can get a general idea.

In your previous post, you stated that your Fitzpatrick skin type "changed" after sun exposure. Essentially, all I was pointing out was that your actual skin type assignment remains static, because it is a function of TWO parameters.

Originally Posted By: edokid
If it only mattered about natural tone then they should be able to treat me no problem..

Not sure what you mean by "it."

Yes, obviously, tanning contraindicates laser hair removal, or, at a minimum, requires lower fluences.

However, that you had laser treatments on your tanned legs without adverse effects does not imply that someone naturally as dark could do the same.


Top
Sponsored Links
#86278 - 04/23/11 02:42 AM Re: London centers with Lumenis lightsheer duet [Re: JMISR]
edokid
Unregistered


I said it's irrelevant because you could be a type 2 naturally and be very white, which would allow you use the alexandrite, but then you could also hit the tanning bed for a week and be as dark as a type 4. Just because you're "naturally" a type 2 doesn't mean you can now be treated with the alexandrite, no clinic would treat you if you looked like a natural type 4. Obviously your natural skin type is very important, but it's also just as important to look at what your current skin colour is as well. I've been to 3 clinics and they all will only treat me with the alexandrite in the winter, as I'm a natural type 3. April to October I have much more colour no matter how hard I try not to, and no clinic will use the alex on me then. So it's not like I can go into a clinic and say "but I'm a type 3 naturally so it's okay to treat me with the alex even though I'm tanned."

You can also do a number of calculators online that tell you your skin type based on a series of questions that you answer about your background, etc.

Top
#86279 - 04/23/11 03:13 AM Re: London centers with Lumenis lightsheer duet [Re: ]
JMISR Offline
Top 20 Contributor

Registered: 12/11/10
Posts: 254
Loc: Seattle, USA
Of course you can't develop a tan and then expect to be treated with the same settings. That doesn't really have anything to do with the previous discussion.

You mentioned that were treated with diode even though you had sun exposure. Basically, I was just saying that doesn't mean the OP could do the same, given his or her ethnicity and other factors besides equal apparent skin color.

Originally Posted By: edokid
You can also do a number of calculators online that tell you your skin type based on a series of questions that you answer about your background, etc.

Yes, since, as I was saying, Fitzpatrick skin type is more than just your apparent skin color. In any case, these aren't a substitute for being evaluated by a medical professional.


Top
#86280 - 04/23/11 03:49 AM Re: London centers with Lumenis lightsheer duet [Re: JMISR]
edokid
Unregistered


Why do you insist on having to question every single word I write down to the last sentence? You've wrote 3 messages now going on about the same thing. Yes I said I used diode after sun exposure, but I also said diode is safe for all skin types according to the manufacturers. If you go to Alma's website, it very clearly says "Permanent hair reduction of all pigmented hair on all skin types, including tanned skin all year-round." http://www.almalasers.com/soprano_xl_int.jsp

So not quite sure why you have to challenge everything. You told the OP that they can only use a Yag which is not true. I also disagree with the statement that darker skin types can use any laser but at lower settings. While that is true, I've yet to have anyone with an alexandrite treat me even with the slightest hint of colour, regardless of settings. Soprano XL can be used at the same settings for all skin types, as I was treated at the highest settings when I was very tanned. My point is very few people would go near a tanned or darker skin person with an alexandrite regardless of settings, where as diode and yag it's never a question. A groupon a few weeks ago was for one clinic that sold Soprano XL sessions and tanning as a dual package.


Edited by edokid (04/23/11 03:53 AM)

Top
#86281 - 04/23/11 04:48 AM Re: London centers with Lumenis lightsheer duet [Re: ]
JMISR Offline
Top 20 Contributor

Registered: 12/11/10
Posts: 254
Loc: Seattle, USA
Originally Posted By: edokid
Why do you insist on having to question every single word I write down to the last sentence? You've wrote 3 messages now going on about the same thing.

Actually, I really couldn't care less about carrying on with you. I am only posting here to provide assistance to folks. I have seen too many patients with really poor results from LHR (including no hair reduction or significant side effects) done at various places, so I am donating my own time here so readers can educate themselves and get the best possible treatments, since good results are definitely obtainable in the right conditions.

Originally Posted By: edokid
Yes I said I used diode after sun exposure, but I also said diode is safe for all skin types according to the manufacturers. If you go to Alma's website, it very clearly says "Permanent hair reduction of all pigmented hair on all skin types, including tanned skin all year-round." http://www.almalasers.com/soprano_xl_int.jsp

Just because a company claims something doesn't make it correct! At settings necessary for permanent hair removal, diodes are clearly not safe for all skin types (see below). Case in point: we just had another thread here from a dark-toned woman who received scarring and hyperpigmentation after a diode treatment.

Originally Posted By: edokid
So not quite sure why you have to challenge everything.

Funny, I was wondering the same about you, given that you initiated this. And I'm not really "challenging" you, just pointing out that your claims are not scientifically or clinically founded. There's nothing really to "challenge" you on, because you haven't provided any foundation to your claims besides your own personal experience and what you were told about X from clinic Y, etc. Instead of whining about all of this, if I am truly wrong, as you say, then the onus is on you explain why. Otherwise, you aren't really contributing to the discussion and that doesn't provide a benefit to anyone.

Originally Posted By: edokid
You told the OP that they can only use a Yag which is not true.

If the goal is permanent epilation, then unfortunately that is the case in a dark individual of Indian origin. Sure, they could use a shorter wavelength laser such as diode or alexandrite, but for safety the settings would have to be so low that they would most likely not get any positive results.

Originally Posted By: edokid
My point is very few people would go near a tanned or darker skin person with an alexandrite regardless of settings, where as diode and yag it's never a question.

1) That's based on your personal experience, not science-based evidence. Really, darker individuals should avoid both diode and alexandrite lasers.

2) The difference between diode and alexandrite is a mere 45nm. Looking at the absorption spectrum of melanin (http://img.medscape.com/pi/emed/ckb/otolaryngology/834279-843831-1532.jpg), you can clearly see that the absorption of light in melanin from diode and alexandrite lasers is similar, the diode being slightly less. Hence, theoretically, diodes can be marginally safer than alexandrite in some individuals, but also slightly less effective. Nd:Yag lasers emit light over 200nm longer than diode, and that light is clearly less absorbed by melanin. So, logically, the effects and safety of a diode are more closely aligned with that of an alexandrite than that of Nd:Yag.

3)Also, there's a difference between having years of clinical/academic experience working with hundreds of patients and many lasers versus having a few treatments yourself and reading around online. Clinics vary in their knowledge, and it's apparent that many (unfortunately) do not have appropriate training and knowledge for LHR.


Top
#86283 - 04/23/11 05:22 AM Re: London centers with Lumenis lightsheer duet [Re: JMISR]
JMISR Offline
Top 20 Contributor

Registered: 12/11/10
Posts: 254
Loc: Seattle, USA
Also, Soprano is not really a useful prototype for discussing diodes since it can be operated differently by using high repetition, low fluence pulses. That is what makes it safer. As a newer machine and concept, however, the efficacy is less corroborated.

Top
#86293 - 04/23/11 03:05 PM Re: London centers with Lumenis lightsheer duet [Re: JMISR]
edokid
Unregistered


Okay you're right I'm wrong. When Alma and Lumenis say diode is safe for all skin types on their website they're lying. We'll leave it up to the OP to decide what laser they want to use then. If they want to ignore the manufacturer and trust some random person on a forum then that's their choice. I just hope they only have very dark coarse hair and realize that that's all a Yag can treat, only giving a reduction. The OP also never said if they are male or female, or if the hair is very coarse or fine. I'm going to assume male due to the area they are mentioning, but we still do not know about the hair. They said it's very dense, they never said it's coarse. If there's a lot of hair but isn't coarse, then you just wasted their money by telling them to use a Yag on it.

Marrduk if you can post a photo of the area it would help a lot with recommendations.

Top
#86294 - 04/23/11 03:16 PM Re: London centers with Lumenis lightsheer duet [Re: ]
stoppit&tidyup Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 05/04/08
Posts: 1807
Loc: London, UK
Hey edokid, I'm type IV and my clinic treated me with a YAG (Apogee Elite). Once the YAG did all it could for me, they never suggested that I could move to the Lightsheer Diode, which they also have, to get a further reduction. I always assumed it was because I was not fair enough??
_________________________
31/F/UK
Laser for reduction on Underarms, Bikini, Full Legs & 3/4 Arms. Skin type IV
Electrolysis - Further details in: My sister's electrolysis diary
[27hrs of Blend, April 2008-Dec 2010 in UK, for coarse hair on lower sideburns, coarse chin hair, completed upper lip, shaped eyebrows]
[Sept 2011 to date, once yearly sessions with Josefa. Completed reduction of facial/neck fuzz in approx 27 hrs TTT]

Top
#86366 - 04/25/11 03:43 PM Re: London centers with Lumenis lightsheer duet [Re: stoppit&tidyup]
LAgirl Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 12/22/04
Posts: 9994
Loc: New York, NY
OP, don't look for speed. Look for someone who knows what they're doing and using good technique and settings. That's already hard enough to find.

Also, make sure you hair is coarse enough for laser. Your skin type is susceptible to induced growth, especially on this area.

Top
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2

Moderator:  Andrea 
Sponsored Links
Recent Posts
Thermocoagulation and Health Canada regulation
by Iluv2zap
Yesterday at 11:09 PM
One month on...
by Iluv2zap
Yesterday at 11:00 PM
Sterilization in Canada
by Iluv2zap
Yesterday at 10:55 PM
My Electrolysis Diary. Laser stimulated hair.
by Stephgold
01/13/18 11:49 PM
Hello again! Looking for advice and opinions.
by Stephgold
01/13/18 07:10 PM
Top Posters
LAgirl 9994
dfahey 9633
James W. Walker VII 8052
Andrea 4149
Michael Bono 3219
Who's Online
0 registered (), 55 Guests and 1 Spider online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod