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#60183 - 02/24/09 01:10 PM Re: Regrowth charts ***** [Re: newbhairkiller]
James W. Walker VII Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 8041
Loc: Buffalo NY, & Traveling the US...
We are not being petty here, but I have to say on the point of knowing exactly which hair, or which follicle is which, scientists use one of two ways to mark them, radioactive markers, or with the insertion of fiberglas markers. Unless you go that far, you really don't know that it isn't a different follicle 15 microns to the left of the one you want to monitor.
_________________________
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Setting a goal is not the main thing. It is deciding how you will go about achieving it and staying with that plan. --- Tom Landry
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#60186 - 02/24/09 02:34 PM Re: Regrowth charts [Re: James W. Walker VII]
dfahey Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 9587
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
Hair follicles can be very, very close to each other and there millions of them. Some are empty and can never grow a hair, some are active and do grow hair on regular basis and some are dormant and have a hair in it, but the follicle is just asleep until something wakes it up! So, it is hard to convince someone that what they are observing is not really what they are observing.

I'm glad you found this site helpful. That's the intention.
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Dee Fahey, R.N., C.T.
Licensed by the State Medical Board of Ohio for Nursing license and Cosmetic Therapy/Electrolysis license
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#60220 - 02/26/09 10:50 AM Re: Regrowth charts [Re: dfahey]
F6Hawk Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 12/03/08
Posts: 128
Loc: S. Korea
Newb, trust these folks when they talk, they know about what they speak! Notice the number of posts by them, it's not just trying to fill bored time in their life.

It is hard to imagine at our level; I know, because I recently purchased my own equipment, part of which is a decent set of 5X loupes and a halogen lamp that really lights up an area. What looks to my naked eye like multiple (2-4) hairs growing out of one "pore" (follicle) is actually 2-4 hairs that are SO CLOSE to one another that they just appear to be in the same follicle.

On that note, there are hairs that are alone, with nothing around them... except about a hundred empty follicles. As Dee said, some are dormant, some don't grow hair at all. In a week or more, some of those empty follicles fill with hair. Some don't, and haven't for years. But with the proper stimulus (laser can provide this stimulus sometimes), hair begins to grow from these follicles.

When your book arrives, and as you begin to observe your hair under magnification, you will see that it is physically impossible to have multiple hairs in one follicle, or for hair to grow as fast as you describe. Not trying to say you are average; perhaps your hair DOES grow faster than average, but if Dee & James are telling you it's impossible to see hair regrowth that fast from an improperly treated follicle, then it is impossible.

The bad news is, the task of removing so much hair without instruction can be daunting, and it is easy to get discouraged. The good news is, the folks here will give you as much help as is humanly possible online. Stick with it, learn the ropes, and you CAN and WILL achieve your goal. It will take you much longer alone than it would take with a pro, but the price is right, and heck, you are going to spend the rest of your life with you anyway, so what have you got to lose? smile

Good luck to you, and many happy, permanently removed hairs!

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#60221 - 02/26/09 02:39 PM Re: Regrowth charts [Re: newbhairkiller]
Barbara_CPE Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 10/19/05
Posts: 1102
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: newbhairkiller
1) i am sitting here absolutely amazed. i pluck 160 hairs. 160 hairs come back 2 weeks later. so i wait a week to make sure they're all back. i pluck all of them again. 2 weeks later, 160 hairs are back. they don't break off, i can see the gel around the base. they'de all have to break off to come back with nearly 100% consistancy. my regrowth cycle in this area is 2 weeks. are u saying im the only one in the world who must pluck the same hairs every 2 weeks???? lucky me. well it will be easier to zap them anyway.


I know you are done hearing our consults, but I must throw this in. If each of your 160 tweezed hairs grows back in 2 weeks - then you only have 160 hairs. Do this for me. Don't tweeze in 2 weeks, wait 3. You will probably tweeze 240 hairs in 3 weeks....Oh My! You grew 80 new hairs!!!!

If you are like the rest of the human race, then your body is cycling in a few old hairs every day. If you are seeing 160 hairs in two weeks, then you are have 11 or 12 hairs cycling in every day. If you are only needing to remove these every 2 weeks, you are fortunate. I have women who used to tweeze for 30 minutes every day! They thought they were tweezing the same hairs every day.

Hair grows, hair sheds...none are synchronized.
_________________________
Barbara Greathouse, CPE
Kansas Licensed since 1980
Live by the 4 Agreements: Be impeccable with your word. Don't take anything personally. Don't make assumptions. Always do your best.



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#61024 - 03/31/09 08:20 AM Re: Regrowth charts [Re: Barbara_CPE]
toeman Offline
Top 20 Contributor

Registered: 01/27/09
Posts: 232
Loc: The Netherlands
ok I have read all of the posts but still my question remains....

I have a question about hair regrowth which I just can't seem to figure out....
I have been cracking my brains on this one but I just don't understand....

Like I said before I am getting electrolysis (blend) treatment on the genital area....
Normally if I would pluck the area the hairs would be back in about 2 weeks (and I am speaking of full regrowth)....

Now when I do electrolysis the area stays hairfree for many more weeks.
The regrowth comes back after like 5-8 weeks....
Now I know that is because of the normal growth cycle....
And that the hairs I would normally see after 2 weeks are new hairs....(and no the hairs didn't break off....)
But why don't they also show up after two weeks after I have been treated?
I mean, apart from the electrolysis, it is plucking like usual....
So something must be happening....But what!?
And when we speak of new hairs in the same spot....are these hairs from a different dermal papilla?

So why is it that with electrolysis the areas where hair does grow back, it takes such a long time compared to all the other times when I plucked it?

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#61029 - 03/31/09 04:17 PM Re: Regrowth charts [Re: toeman]
James W. Walker VII Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 06/03/02
Posts: 8041
Loc: Buffalo NY, & Traveling the US...
Properly performed electrolysis renders the treated follicle UNABLE TO GROW NEW HAIR. By definition no more hair ever grows from a properly treated follicle ever again. Therefore, any hair seen in that area would be from a different follicle.

As the grid in the regrowth chart post attempt to give you the visual, although you treat a follicle, when the next hair springs up from a follicle located 20 microns to the left, it looks like the same hair to the person who is just looking at that same area of skin 2 to 8 weeks later.
_________________________
http://www.executiveclearance.com/beforeandafter.html
Setting a goal is not the main thing. It is deciding how you will go about achieving it and staying with that plan. --- Tom Landry
Has this site helped you? Pay it forward. Donate to keep HairTell & Hairfacts Online at http://www.hairfacts.com/feedback/support-this-site/

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#61231 - 04/08/09 03:59 AM Re: Regrowth charts [Re: newbhairkiller]
lefty2g , LE, CPE Offline
Top 20 Contributor

Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 232
Loc: Massachusetts, USA
You said,"I know". Wanna bet? Communication is a big problem in this world. Between husband and wife, between parents and kids, between heads of state, between doctor and patient (usually because the doc is too busy), but worst is the communication between electrologist and client probably due to the emotional factor and the poor communication skills of most electrologists with the patient's lack of ability to comprehend what is going on. When I come across a patient who cannot understand, I suggest they get another opinion. So, for all of you who are having trouble with your patient.. because that last patient you had may be one who I suggested she get another opinion, or learn better communication skills.

Patients want miracles and we do not do that. Some of us are better at what we do than others so it may seem like a miracle, just like doctors or hairdressers (doctors call it "complications" when there is an boo boo. We do not have that luxury even if some patients do not heal well. Perhaps we oversell our work as we do not want to lose a patient because this is still a business. Patients have an emotional factor as well and they do not want to talk about anything except "remove the hair" today, NOW. Sometimes we become Psychiatrists to the patients because they feel SAFE and they have to get something off their chest and they do not know who else they can talk to (I could write a book about the stories I've heard but that is unethical). When you say ,"I KNOW", believe me ...you do not... IF I GAVE YOU A TEST on the basics of electrology YOU WOULD FAIL BECAUSE YOU DO NOT KNOW WHAT YOU DO NOT KNOW. YOU WERE TOLD EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANTED TO HEAR. HOW CAN YOU FIND ANYTHING WRONG WITH THAT? YOUR GUY WAS using some psychology. "Give 'em what they want. Tell 'em what they want to hear." That is exactly what they want and it is a little bit showbiz.

HAIR GROWS at the rate of about 1/2 inch per month but that does NOT INCLUDE the time it takes from when a hair is "plucked" and a new hair has to reorganize and then send up a new shaft. It takes time to reach the surface and that varies for each follicle because the depth of the follicle varies and the hair you see might not be a replacement for the one you plucked, therefore, you have to start with a hair that is cut at the hairline as in shaving. There is a more accurate method. It involves giving the patient one dose of a chemical marker (cystine) that follicles love. The chemical is picked up by a growing hair and it is incorporated into the hair chemistry. You know when the chemical was given and you know when the chemical is seen in hair that is poking through the surface. Therefore, you can measure the distance between the marker in the hair as the day you gave the patient a marker to the day when the marker no longer is in a hair. The distance from beginning to end of the marker in the hair tells you exactly how fast the hair was growing and you know how many days it took to reach the surface. A little bit of math and you can figure out the speed for each area of the body. You know when the dye was given and you can measure the distance from the first appearance of the dye to when the dye ends on the hair. The distance from the beginning of the dye to the end of the dye tells you how long the hair was growing and the rate of growth. Since you know when you gave the dye you can determine the exact date the dye was given and how much growth per day took place until the dye ended on the hair shaft. There is a type of follicle called a "compound follicle". It consists of multiple papillae that meet in a single follicle. Similar to a road where 2 or 3 lanes meet at a single lane. These hairs are not connected to one another. They are independent of one another except that they all come out of a single follicle (keep in mind that the follicle is only a way to get the hair out of the body. The papilla is where the hair begins as this is where the cells that become hair originate). It is common to see 2 hairs coming from one follicle, but it is probably more common than we see it because the hair can be wiped off with the friction of a towel.

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#61315 - 04/10/09 11:26 PM Re: Regrowth charts [Re: lefty2g , LE, CPE]
ded10
Unregistered


if I understand correctly, you said it was common that two hairs from one follicle. Sorry not to agree with you. The follicles are grouped in threes, parallel or crossed between them, but each is independent and should be treated. As shown by the drawings.
If I've misunderstood, Sorry. Thank you


Edited by ded10 (04/10/09 11:50 PM)

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#61343 - 04/11/09 08:23 PM Re: Regrowth charts [Re: ]
ded10
Unregistered


As shown by the drawings.
picasa pictures

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#61352 - 04/12/09 06:40 AM Re: Regrowth charts [Re: ]
lefty2g , LE, CPE Offline
Top 20 Contributor

Registered: 11/16/02
Posts: 232
Loc: Massachusetts, USA
I like this forum because of this. We can have different opinions and inform one another or disagree with each other. Here we are not competitors ..we are colleagues. When we are advertising for new business we are competitors.

Many (not all) electrologists will agree that it is common to see two hairs growing from a single follicle. Yes hairs do happen to grow in clusters of three, however, there can be three follicles growing in close proximity. There are also "compound follicles" where two or more follicle grow in close proximity to one another but they are like "siamese follicles". As the hair grows independently from each follicle they grow upward and meet at a fork in the road. Similar to 3 lanes of road merging to 1 follicle opening. The electrology text shows sketches of this. There are none in dermatology texts because, as one doctor told me,"Who Cares?" A chinchilla has 1000 hairs per follicle and there are no more in the wild. They are raised on ranches these days.

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