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#8979 - 09/01/02 11:49 AM Regrowth charts *****
allowit Offline

Member

Registered: 05/20/02
Posts: 36
i electolysed an area about three weeks back but now it seems that hairs are starting to regrow in that area. is this normal and does it take two or three tries before it goes away permenently?
also as my one touch dial is broken and stuck on two is it possible to permenently remove hairs while on dial 2, (perhaps leave it for 40 seconds instead of the recommended 15?)

[ March 31, 2003, 02:09 AM: Message edited by: Andrea ]

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#8980 - 09/01/02 05:03 PM Re: Regrowth charts
NoHair Offline
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Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 276
Hair grows back at different rates in different parts of the body. Typically hair will grow back in about 6 to 8 weeks, so at 3 weeks you are probably seeing hairs that were not visible when you did the treatment to that area. So although you may have good success at eliminating the hairs you did treat, you still need to treat the area repeatedly as other hairs surface. If you did not properly destroy the hairs that you did treat, then of course they may come back weaker or full force, depending on the skill of your initial treatment, and may need to be treated again.

I believe that 40 seconds is a much more controllable treatment time than 15. A few seconds of overtreatment at the lower setting will do much less damage than the same amount of extra time at a high setting. You should be judging the overall time by the success of the treatment of the previous similar hair; the time should be just enough to remove the hair without much force. Any extra time and you can do unwanted damage. Thicker and/or deeper hairs often require more treatment time at the same dial setting.

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#8981 - 09/03/02 12:29 PM Re: Regrowth charts
Andrea Offline
hairtell.com founder
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Registered: 03/22/02
Posts: 4149
Loc: Los Angeles
NoHair, there's a lot of debate about hair growth cycles, but it's probably likely that any hair at 6 to 8 weeks is still new growth and not regrowth of treated hairs.

allowit, you should treat hairs until they are able to slide out easily. Depending on the depth and coarseness of the hairs, this can take 15 seconds to a minute or more. At a lower setting, it can be even longer than that. After a few hairs of the same type, you should have a rough idea of how long they take to remove. After that much time, try the hair gently. If it doesn't slide out, treat it again. I ouldn't treat the same hair more than three times.

If your unit isn't recently purchased, you might try taking it back for a refund.

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#8982 - 09/06/02 09:40 PM Re: Regrowth charts
NoHair Offline
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Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 276
Gior's book Modern Electrology has a chart titled Regrowth Time Chart:

Hairline (front or back) F/M - 5 to 6 weeks
Eyebrows F/M - 5 to 6 weeks
Top of Nose F/M - 10 to 12 weeks
Upper Lip (vellus hair) F - 8 to 9 weeks
Upper Lip (terminal) F/M - 4 to 6 weeks
Side of Face (vellus) F - 12 to 14 weeks
Side of Face (terminal) F/M - 5 to 6 weeks
Chin (vellus) F - 6 to 7 weeks
Chin (terminal) F/M - 5 to 6 weeks
Neck (terminal) F - 5 to 6 weeks
Neck (terminal) M - 4 to 5 weeks
Ears (outside vellus) F/M - 10 to 11 weeks
Ears (outside terminal) F/M - 7 to 8 weeks
Breast F - 7 to 8 weeks
Chest (terminal) F - 7 to 8 weeks
Chest (terminal) M - 6 to 7 weeks
Back & Shoulders (terminal) F - 7 to 8 weeks
Back & Shoulders (terminal) M - 6 to 7 weeks
Arms (terminal) F/M - 7 to 8 weeks
Legs (terminal) F/M - 6 to 7 weeks
Hands (terminal) F/M - 7 to 8 weeks
Underarms (terminal) F/M - 7 to 8 weeks
Abdomen (terminal) F - 8 to 9 weeks
Inner Thighs (terminal) F - 5 to 6 weeks
Feet, toes (terminal) F/M - 6 to 8 weeks

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#8983 - 09/06/02 10:33 PM Re: Regrowth charts
Andrea Offline
hairtell.com founder
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 03/22/02
Posts: 4149
Loc: Los Angeles
Fino's estimates are not based on published clinical data.

Myers and Hamilton observed rates of 3 to 4 months for hairs to return after plucking from scalp, armpit, and thigh, as an example.

A more useful chart of growth cycles appears in Richards, p. 39:

T = duration of telogen
A = duration of anagen

Eyebrows: 16-20 weeks
T = 12 weeks A = 4-8 weeks

Ears: 16-20 weeks
T = 12 weeks A = 4-8 weeks

Beard (chin): 66 weeks
T = 10 weeks A = 52 weeks

Moustache (upper lip): 22 weeks
T = 6 weeks A = 16 weeks

Axillae (armpits): 28 weeks
T = 12 weeks A = 16 weeks

Arms: 31 weeks
T = 18 weeks A = 13 weeks

Legs & thighs: 40 weeks
T = 24 weeks A =16 weeks

The Richards/Meharg chart is by no means complete, since very few clinical studies have performed careful observations of individual hair follicles. They cite 14 published papers in compiling their chart of hair growth, and the chart itself as it appears in their book has many blank spots. Better to wait until someone performs clinical observations than to hazard a guess, they feel. I do, too.

I like and respect Fino Gior a lot, but he sometimes makes authoritative statements based on anecdotal observations rather than meticulous scientific data. This tendency of making authoritative-sounding statements with no basis in published medical data has led to loopholes exploited by hair removal quacks, such as a 1979 promotional brochure he authored which laid out a supposed "standard" by which epilators should be judged.

What this goes to show is that even people with the best intentions should base statements on careful clinical observation when dealing with something as complicated as hair removal. Fino's estimates of time to completion are very useful for consumers, but they are just that-- estimates. His regrowth chart is, in my opinion, spurious at best.

I believe the only way to determine long-term hair removal is to observe for 26 weeks after final treatment (a standard growth cycle for many types of hair), and the only way to determine permanent hair removal is to make observations 52 weeks after final treatment (two standard growth cycles for many types of hair).

[ September 06, 2002, 03:40 PM: Message edited by: Andrea ]

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#8984 - 09/07/02 01:01 AM Re: Regrowth charts
NoHair Offline
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Registered: 07/18/02
Posts: 276
I agree. Thanks for the info!

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#8985 - 09/10/02 02:32 AM Re: Regrowth charts
RJC2001 Offline

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Registered: 05/02/02
Posts: 1513
Loc: USA
Given that the anagen stage for the beard is about 52 weeks long, shouldn't that mean that fewer treatments would be required to remove the hair there? After all, there is a higher probablility of catching the beard in the growth stage. Of course I suppose it also depends on what percentage of beard hairs are in the growth stage at any given point in time.

Does the percentage of hair in the growth stage at a given time vary by body part too?

RJC2001

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#8986 - 09/10/02 06:36 AM Re: Regrowth charts
Andrea Offline
hairtell.com founder
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 03/22/02
Posts: 4149
Loc: Los Angeles
Funny you should ask! Also from Richards/Meharg, page 39:

Body part: % Telogen / % Anagen

Scalp: 13/85
Eyebrows: 90/10
Ear: 85/15
Cheeks: 30-50/50-70
Beard(chin): 30/70
Moustache (upper lip): 35/65
Armpits: 70/30
Pubic area: 70/30
Arms: 80/20
Legs/thighs: 80/20
Breasts: 70/30

Facial hair usually requires more treatments because it is heavily androgen-influenced. Although hairs are best treated in anagen stage, facial hair is usually so tenacious that it's hard to kill even in anagen stage.

[ September 09, 2002, 11:39 PM: Message edited by: Andrea ]

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#8987 - 09/11/02 03:23 AM Re: Regrowth charts
RJC2001 Offline

Top Ten Contributor

Registered: 05/02/02
Posts: 1513
Loc: USA
Thanks for the info. Andrea. That explains why I have more hair left on my upper arms than on my chest and back. At any given time a lower percentage of arm hair (only about 20%) is in the anagen stage. I would suppose that laser treatments though may alter those percentages. One of the links you provided on the hairfacts had an artilce that explained how laser may force some hairs into an earlier telogen stage and that eventually more hairs will be in the growth stage at the same time. In effect the growth stages could be more synchronized.

Could you provide the URL for the Richards article on growth stages?

Thanks
RJC2001

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#8988 - 09/11/02 03:39 AM Re: Regrowth charts
Andrea Offline
hairtell.com founder
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 03/22/02
Posts: 4149
Loc: Los Angeles
Yes, it stands to reason that laser may assist in synchronizing hair growth patterns after several treatments.

The complete Richards/Meharg chart is not available online as far as I know. Their site mehargelectrolysis.com appears to be down.

Hairfacts: Richards/Meharg publishing data

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Website www.medricltd.com

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