Subscribe & Support This Site!
consumer hair removal forum
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >
Topic Options
Rate This Topic
Hop To:
#97541 - 04/06/12 12:02 AM Laser Rebound Years Later (To Geeeza, DPP, and...)
depilacionelectr
Unregistered


... all who have started Electrolysis after laser.


I'm working on a case that could be similar to yours. Male, multiple laser sessions, young (incomplete development of hairs), etc.
This man had laser in the chest, upper arms, neck, stomach and abdomen (for more than two years with an alexandrite).
When he first came to me in March 2011 for a trial session in his neck, I photographed all the areas he wanted to eliminate with Electrolysis. The last laser session was a year before the first photo. In this first trip, we did not touch the chest, because there was no time and his main priority was the neck (front and back), so the chest was not touched until July 2011. Notice how the density of hairs on his chest is substantially higher in July (actual date of start of Electrolysis) than in the photo taken in March . Thank God I did not work in this area in March, because if I have done, the appearance of failure would be brutal.

My intention in opening this thread is to help you understand that you probably will have more regrowth of what you expect, but your electrologist is killing all the hairs that are coming (whether the regrowth arrive by the induced growth, as if coming from a new development).

In March (NO START OF ELECTROLYSIS)


In July 2011 (before first clearance)


In November 2011 (before second clearance)


In March 2012 (before third clearance)




I hope this helps you understand how important it is to interpret the results based on what happened before of electrolysis treatments.

Top
Thread Sponsors
#97544 - 04/06/12 12:33 AM Re: To Geeeza, DPP, and.... [Re: ]
Geeeza01 Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 04/29/11
Posts: 105
Loc: uk
Thank you josefa...yeah some of mine has come through and what we figure from adjacent follicles bit nothing that can't be sorted given time. Im itching loads at moment especially during night. lol aloe helps. He is looking good in that pic! smile and what a difference...Im contemplating removing chest hair at moment! smile

Top
#97545 - 04/06/12 01:11 AM Re: To Geeeza, DPP, and.... [Re: ]
yb Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 02/03/03
Posts: 399
Loc: New York, NY
Just wow. Try telling a client coming to you after failed laser treatments that he or she can still have more regrowth after the laser more than a year later. No one will believe you.
_________________________
http://www.facebook.com/PreferredImage
NYC Electrology

Top
#97546 - 04/06/12 01:31 AM Re: To Geeeza, DPP, and.... [Re: yb]
C O'Connell Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 734
Loc: Sydney,Australia
Wow!!! Seeing this so graphically is absolute proof ,of what we have known for some time now. Thank you so much for sharing this Josefa.
_________________________
Christine O' Connell, D.R.E., F.I.E. ,M.B.I.A.E. (UK)
http://www.clinicalelectrolysis.com.au

Top
#97551 - 04/06/12 09:00 AM Re: To Geeeza, DPP, and.... [Re: C O'Connell]
DPP Offline
Contributor

Registered: 09/05/11
Posts: 32
THANK YOU JOSEFAAA!!! Thank you so much for sharing.
Your boy really muscled up by the end of it - he looks great!
Beautiful work, as always!!
_________________________
Electrolysis of arms - Total time so far: 35.5 hours.

Top
#97555 - 04/06/12 01:04 PM Re: To Geeeza, DPP, and.... [Re: DPP]
Johnson Offline
Top 20 Contributor

Registered: 06/29/08
Posts: 232
Thanks for the interesting pictures, but that man's hair was way too light to be treated with laser in the first place so I don't think even laser experts would have been surprised.

Top
#97558 - 04/06/12 01:38 PM Re: To Geeeza, DPP, and.... [Re: Johnson]
depilacionelectr
Unregistered


According to laser experts who worked on this man, he was the ideal candidate: pigmented roots in a very white skin, high contrast. They even convinced him to do at the top of the arms, when my client was reluctant.

I'm not campaigning against the laser here, I'm just protecting the work of the electrologist, revealing a phenomenon that tends to confuse the user of electrolysis.

Top
#97602 - 04/07/12 02:49 PM Re: To Geeeza, DPP, and.... [Re: ]
Geeeza01 Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 04/29/11
Posts: 105
Loc: uk
Well laser is crap. I just don't understand why it is so crap for some people and great for others. It seems at least fifty percent are unhappy with their treatments
. Whereas electrolysis really does work for most.

Top
#97603 - 04/07/12 03:14 PM Re: To Geeeza, DPP, and.... [Re: Geeeza01]
ekade Offline
Top 20 Contributor

Registered: 02/14/10
Posts: 306
Originally Posted By: Geeeza01
It seems at least fifty percent are unhappy with their treatments

It would be really interesting to know even approximate percent of success and failed LASER treatments.

Top
#97608 - 04/07/12 04:20 PM Re: To Geeeza, DPP, and.... [Re: ekade]
Geeeza01 Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 04/29/11
Posts: 105
Loc: uk
I think in most cases the results for women may be better for obvious reasons. With men it is so strange because they will report the swelling shedding even at high energies and its all back. I think another factor is that like myself.. i was not a good candidate for laser but still tried. laser clinics will always say they can treat with the exception of a few who take pride in there work and not just take your money. ELECTROLYSIS Is my last hope before i wax it all off lol. I think it may even be as high as 70% failure...for an approximation based on own experience others and from off here.

Top
#97610 - 04/07/12 04:48 PM Re: To Geeeza, DPP, and.... [Re: Geeeza01]
Deanna Stovall Offline
Contributor

Registered: 12/29/11
Posts: 24
Loc: Columbus, OH
Thanks Josefa - the fact that, 1 year after completion of laser treatments, your client had little hair on his chest, and then 3 months later, had a chest full of hair, confirms regrowth of treated hairs after laser can occur for a long time. How long is the question!!! I have asked this of laser practitioners and no one has given an answer supporting Josefa's find - maybe they don't even know. A study of this seems simple enough - laser 100 people for a set number of treatments, check after 9 months, 12 months, 15 months etc. Obvivously, it would not be 100% accurate, as individuals and their body's workings are just that, individual, but it would give some good insight. I assume for the FDA to allow laser hair treatments to be advertised as "permanent reduction" that many studies of this kind were done. Has anyone seen any such studies?

It is weird that laser delays regrowth for a much longer time than electrolysis does. Take the below example:


An 18yr. old women comes to me to remove her previously untouched lip hair. I do that, completing the area in 9-12 months with 4 treatments. She is hair free for 6 months and then in month 7 she gets some hair growth. I consider this new growth, to be from follicles that were not previously treated.

Now, take the above lip situation, treated by a series of laser treatments. The area remains clear for 6 months and then in month 7 hairs appear. It is possible and even likely, for these hairs to be the previously treated hairs (according to the laser practitioners I have talked with). I wonder why the long delay for the hairs to reappear.

Another interesting claim of laser is that it causes hairs to become less coarse, and that, the hair remains that way. If we treat a hair with electrolysis and weaken it (as all the necessary cells were not killed to destroy it) it will return as a weakened hair, but that hair, over time, will go back to its original structure. Why would the lasered hair react differently (by remaining fine)?
_________________________
Deanna Stovall
www.powellelectrolysis.com

Top
#97651 - 04/08/12 11:46 AM Re: To Geeeza, DPP, and.... [Re: Deanna Stovall]
depilacionelectr
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Deanna Stovall


Another interesting claim of laser is that it causes hairs to become less coarse, and that, the hair remains that way. If we treat a hair with electrolysis and weaken it (as all the necessary cells were not killed to destroy it) it will return as a weakened hair, but that hair, over time, will go back to its original structure. Why would the lasered hair react differently (by remaining fine)?




Perhaps this explanation makes sense: The laser impinges in the part of the follicle that has more pigment, ie, the bulb of the transient region. Enough to miniaturize the follicle, but not enough to remove hair permanently. Thus, part of the follicular tissue is replaced by scar tissue. For fine hair becomes thicker, it is necessary that the follicle, scroll down, that is, to go deeper
However, the fibrous tissue will not allow this. This could be performing a skin biopsy before and after laser in the same area, and probably someone has already done.

Top
#97706 - 04/09/12 08:09 PM Re: To Geeeza, DPP, and.... [Re: ]
t4ngent Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 85
Loc: Houston, TX
It should be noted that this kind of laser induced follicle stimulation only occurs on testosterone mediated follicles.

In other words, it is only a concern if you are a male receiving laser on your torso or upper legs, or if you are a female who is prone to androgen induced hair growth.

For males it is not much of a concern doing laser on the face because most males will have few remaining inactive follicles on their beard area by the age of 25-30. For females however it is very risky since those prone to androgen induced facial hair will have many inactive follicles which can easily become stimulated to grow terminal hairs by the laser.

In the case of the man pictured in this thread, his hair is definitely dark enough and skin light enough to have success with laser.. had he continued undergoing laser treatments eventually most of his hair could have been eliminated once there were no more follicles to stimulate (although that would have probably taken years worth of treatments, electrolysis is definitely the better option for him)

Top
#97718 - 04/09/12 10:49 PM Re: To Geeeza, DPP, and.... [Re: t4ngent]
DPP Offline
Contributor

Registered: 09/05/11
Posts: 32
Dear t4ngent,
I just thought I'd add that I have experienced laser stimulation in areas beyond what you have described above.
_________________________
Electrolysis of arms - Total time so far: 35.5 hours.

Top
#97899 - 04/16/12 08:55 AM Re: To Geeeza, DPP, and.... [Re: DPP]
Geeeza01 Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 04/29/11
Posts: 105
Loc: uk
I wonder how much money collectively everyone has thrown away on laser? Not to mention time. frown

Top
#97903 - 04/16/12 11:01 AM Re: To Geeeza, DPP, and.... [Re: Geeeza01]
DPP Offline
Contributor

Registered: 09/05/11
Posts: 32
Even at an individual level - too much. Especially when you're young, on low rates, and work like a bee in the hope that it'll be worth it... I could have traveled like my friends!

Not much one can do now other than try and prevent the same mistake being made by others.

I'm not dissing laser - it's just not for everywhere and not for everyone.
_________________________
Electrolysis of arms - Total time so far: 35.5 hours.

Top
#97904 - 04/16/12 12:17 PM Re: To Geeeza, DPP, and.... [Re: DPP]
Johnson Offline
Top 20 Contributor

Registered: 06/29/08
Posts: 232
I agree. You need very good circumstances and suitability for yourself for Laser to work correctly, and even then you might be in for a rude awakening. And even though Electrolysis is better overall, it's still hard to find competent technicians who can even compare to some of the skilled proffessionals on this site. Expensive/risky business this permanent hair removal.

Top
#97910 - 04/16/12 05:37 PM Re: To Geeeza, DPP, and.... [Re: DPP]
t4ngent Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 07/09/11
Posts: 85
Loc: Houston, TX
Originally Posted By: DPP
Dear t4ngent,
I just thought I'd add that I have experienced laser stimulation in areas beyond what you have described above.


DPP, do you have underlying hormonal or genetic issues which cause your hair growth?

The scientific journals I have read on this matter point to the vast majority of hypertrichosis cases studied being linked to androgen mediated follicles. However, it should be noted that certain people with hormonal or genetic abnormalities may be at risk in other areas due to atypical endocrine function (ie hirsute individuals may have androgen stimulated follicles in atypical locations, or covering the entire body in the most extreme cases)

Top
#98116 - 04/23/12 05:44 AM Re: To Geeeza, DPP, and.... [Re: t4ngent]
DPP Offline
Contributor

Registered: 09/05/11
Posts: 32
My doctor says I don't. But I have not had extensive testing done.
_________________________
Electrolysis of arms - Total time so far: 35.5 hours.

Top
#98119 - 04/23/12 12:19 PM Re: To Geeeza, DPP, and.... [Re: DPP]
dfahey Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 9556
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
DPP - are you a male?
_________________________
Dee Fahey, R.N., C.T.
Licensed by the State Medical Board of Ohio for Nursing license and Cosmetic Therapy/Electrolysis license
_____________________
ELECTROLYSIS FAQ'S:

British Institute & Association of Electrolysis

http://www.electrolysis.co.uk/?page_id=16

Top
#98121 - 04/23/12 01:04 PM Re: To Geeeza, DPP, and.... [Re: dfahey]
DPP Offline
Contributor

Registered: 09/05/11
Posts: 32
Yes I am...
_________________________
Electrolysis of arms - Total time so far: 35.5 hours.

Top
#98123 - 04/23/12 03:47 PM Re: To Geeeza, DPP, and.... [Re: DPP]
dfahey Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 9556
Loc: Columbus, Ohio
Okay. You don't need a hormonal workup for normal man hair, but if you feel better asking your physician about this, then follow your instincts.
_________________________
Dee Fahey, R.N., C.T.
Licensed by the State Medical Board of Ohio for Nursing license and Cosmetic Therapy/Electrolysis license
_____________________
ELECTROLYSIS FAQ'S:

British Institute & Association of Electrolysis

http://www.electrolysis.co.uk/?page_id=16

Top
#101811 - 10/17/12 08:02 PM Re: To Geeeza, DPP, and.... [Re: dfahey]
CareBearhair Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 94
Loc: B.C. canada
I was a laser tech 3 years before I was an electrologist and when I started my electrology course I had no leg hair (maybe 5-10 hairs) for me to practice on. At that time my legs had been hair free for at least a year from multiple laser sessions (started legs in 2005). Now 4 years later, I have a lot more leg hair to work on! More keep slowly coming back but, I'm still happy since the majority of my leg hairs are miniaturized (so fine and tiny that you can see only in certain lighting and/or magnification)

Laser reduced hair will probably creep back for several years to come.

Top
#109201 - 09/19/13 12:23 AM Re: To Geeeza, DPP, and.... [Re: CareBearhair]
SeanaTG Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 08/13/13
Posts: 988
Loc: The Great White North eh
Sigh...you aren't seriously saying I can still expect laser regrowth five years from now? Really? Sigh....I'm going to be practising electrolysis a LONG time


Edited by SeanaTG (09/19/13 12:23 AM)

Top
#113222 - 04/05/14 01:45 PM Re: To Geeeza, DPP, and.... [Re: Geeeza01]
dudechillin Offline
Member

Registered: 03/20/11
Posts: 8
Loc: west coast of U.S.
I've spent a lot of money on both IPL and laser. With each I did several treatments, a "full package" plus additional. I most recently finished one year of laser treatments spaced at about 5-6 weeks. Similar to my prior IPL experience, about four months after the last treatment the hair starts to come back thick.

I've had it with laser. Enough. I've spent over $8k for results which are well below my modest expectations of "reduction". Perhaps laser works for some, but it didn't for me.

Recently I started seeing a reputable electrologist. The results so far are very encouraging. It's a slow process, but actually faster than what I had imagined. No doubt it will be a long process, and perhaps another $3-4k. But it's comforting to know that I am finally on the right path.

Top
#113224 - 04/05/14 03:19 PM Re: To Geeeza, DPP, and.... [Re: dudechillin]
SeanaTG Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 08/13/13
Posts: 988
Loc: The Great White North eh
I cant say much to your post, because my experience was pretty similar.
Stick with the electrolysis. Eventually you will get to a point where the "tap will be turned off" for new hair and its a really nice place to be.

Seana

Top
#113235 - 04/06/14 06:25 AM Re: To Geeeza, DPP, and.... [Re: SeanaTG]
Brenton Offline
Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 06/09/11
Posts: 721
Loc: SoCal
Quote:
Perhaps laser works for some, but it didn't for me


From your post, first of all, IPL rarely works if at all, so I'm not surprised you didn't see results. With an actual laser, my guess from what you wrote is that you went to a "medical spa" with a package deal. Those places tend to not pump up the laser high enough to do some permanent results. Just a hunch

Top
#113246 - 04/07/14 01:51 PM Re: To Geeeza, DPP, and.... [Re: Brenton]
Helen1983 Offline
Top 20 Contributor

Registered: 08/28/13
Posts: 301
Also dependends on the area treated lots of people have reported more growth in face and arms from laser where as its rare to have this issue on body hair such as legs or under arms bikini or least I hope so as I plan to do bikini once saved up.

Top
#116285 - 11/22/14 12:45 AM Re: To Geeeza, DPP, and.... [Re: Helen1983]
Suzn Offline
Member

Registered: 11/18/14
Posts: 2
Loc: Bay Area, California
One phenomena that I have witnessed since the introduction of laser (and to a lesser extent IPL) is the "welding" of the follicle on large hairs. By welding, I mean that the outer layers of the follicle have been dried out and now adhere to the surrounding skin. At any one time, I have at least 2 clients who have done extensive laser electrolysis. For me as a galvanic operator, the heat generated results in lack of sufficient moisture to enable a timely removal, a condition that I have also witnessed with certain applications of thermolysis. Regrowth is not my only problem, it is the significant reduction in speed required to obtain a permanent kill.
_________________________
Electrologist 1992 to the present. Industrial hair killer to the transgender community. Top quality is always the priority. Specializing in face, body, ear, nose, and genital. "No place I won't go" . Laser re-work welcome but virgin skin clearings get high praise and best results.
You can always call 408-431-1143

Top
#116286 - 11/22/14 09:52 AM Re: To Geeeza, DPP, and.... [Re: Suzn]
Michael Bono Offline

Top 10 Contributor

Registered: 01/11/11
Posts: 3114
Loc: Santa Barbara, CA USA
Hi Susan,

Lovely to see you here today. BTW we are sharing a client (the Coast Guard guy who was living in SF, now in Virginia). He had nothing but praise for your work and I can attest that your results were superb ... well done indeed. Last week I quickly "cleared off" his back and I think there were only about 10 hairs! (I also finished-up the chest and stomach.) "Electrolysis really works folks!"

On this "welding?" Maybe there is a build-up of scar tissue in the follicle from repeated (unsuccessful) treatments? Of course, this "follicular" scar tissue is not visible. Scar tissue is, as you say, dryer and tougher than surrounding more vascularized tissue. "Weld" is a good term for this ... I like it and I'm going to use the term. "Laser-welded follicles" ... WOW!

Now that you mention it, I think I have been aware of this too ... I just didn't necessarily put 2 + 2 together. I DO notice a bit more difficulty when I encounter "pebbling" and this would, perhaps, point me in the same direction you have indicated. I will be thinking and looking now ... thanks. *

I hope we can get together some time soon and share notes. I'm not planning to be up in SF soon, but you never know. Definitely coming through in the Spring to visit friends in NoCal (Mendocino).

*In the "old days," before "constant current DC," you could immediately tell when you encountered dryer tissue because the DC meter would drop. Now, because voltage is automatically "pumped up" (or lowered) and regulated, you can't tell any more. Old DC meters also indicated when the person was relaxing or when they were encountering more pain. Now, this is gone. In some instances, with "new technology," something is lost too.

Top
#121578 - 04/05/16 01:22 PM Re: To Geeeza, DPP, and.... [Re: ]
Jad Offline
Major Contributor

Registered: 12/08/12
Posts: 55
Hi Josefa,

Can you please check your messages.

Apologies for posting it here smile

Top
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 4 >

Moderator:  Andrea 
Sponsored Links
Recent Posts
Local anaesthetic
by Smartbeauty
Today at 05:59 AM
Selling My Kree Imperial Deluxe
by templje
Today at 05:10 AM
KREE imperial ? Galvanic epilator help
by templje
Today at 04:32 AM
Tweezers
by Smartbeauty
Today at 04:28 AM
dearly departed zapper's family needs donations
by Iluv2zap
Yesterday at 10:47 PM
Top Posters
LAgirl 9994
dfahey 9556
James W. Walker VII 8039
Andrea 4148
Michael Bono 3110
Who's Online
1 registered (1 invisible), 98 Guests and 2 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod