Proper Epilations and other good deeds.

Hair Removal Methods Professional Electrolysis
41

I would not treat an area as small as the upper lip twice in a week. One treatment per week. That’s it. If the skin is overtreated and looks angry, spread that out to every two weeks.

I’m concerned with your reaction and do not know if it is an equipment concern or a skill concern. Just don’t want you coming back here months later saying you think you are scarred.

For comparing purposes, I use gold probes with a computerized epilator. I can do 30 minute appointments on the upper lip easily and client feedback is that the pinkness/redness subsides in 30 minutes to a couple hours.No scabs either. Pain is not an issue - it is tolerable. At least the hairs were sliding out.
What I do is not unique. It is something many electrolgists repeat everyday. A good treatment with a good healing outcome is more than achievable and should be demanded. If she can’t deliver and you have other choices in your locale, please seek them out.

Please have a talk with her and see if she can do something better for you. Even those with sensitive skin can have healing outcomes where they are not swollen with scabs for 50+ hours. That is not acceptable eclectrolysis outcome.

You can buy an aloe vera plant and snip a piece off and rub in the really pure gel, with clean hands. It is sticky. There has to be some added ingredients in the "100%"gel you buy so fungus and bacteria’s don’t grow.

Thanks for posting hert9. One other thing, hert, do you have darker skin? For some reason, I think I remember that you did. Are you getting any hyperpigmentation problems?

Dee

42

I would not treat an area as small as the upper lip twice in a week. One treatment per week. That’s it. If the skin is overtreated and looks angry, spread that out to every two weeks. But,you better talk to her about the healing before you go on and keep repeating this.

I’m concerned with your reaction and do not know if it is an equipment concern, a skill concern or at worse, both. Just don’t want you coming back here to hairtell months later saying you think you are scarred.

For comparing purposes, I use gold probes with a computerized epilator. I can do 30 minute appointments on the upper lip easily and client feedback is that the pinkness/redness subsides in 30 minutes to a couple hours. No scabs either. Pain is not an issue - it is tolerable - no topicals required. Sometimes there are a few red dots,but they subside in a couple days.

What I do is not unique. It is something many electrolgists repeat everyday. A good treatment with a good healing outcome is more than achievable and should be demanded. If she can’t deliver and you have other choices in your locale, please seek them out. At least the hairs were sliding out.

Please have a talk with her and see if she can do something better for you. Even those with sensitive skin can have healing outcomes where they are not swollen with scabs for 50+ hours. That is not acceptable electrolysis outcome.

You can buy an aloe vera plant and snip a piece off and rub in the really pure gel, with clean hands. It is sticky. There has to be some added ingredients in the "100%"gel you buy so fungus and bacteria’s don’t grow.

Thanks for posting hert9. One other thing, hert, do you have darker skin? For some reason, I think I remember that you did. Are you getting any hyperpigmentation problems?

Dee

43

Yes, Dee, you remember correctly, I am a skin type 4. I had this one really bad treatment on my chin a long time ago from a lady I visited while my regular electrologist was on vacation, that gave me a real bad reaction, lots of these clear pustules, more heavily concentrated on the side she treated more. I had a lot of hyperpigmentation from that treatment and it has more than half faded after approx 7-8 mths. You know what though, James hadn’t made many comments but he did say that woman’s technique would kill the hair, and they did! That side of my chin got clear real fast after that treatment and had far less re-growth than the other! I still would choose the slow treatment…

I got hyperpigmentation on the rest of the chin too, but lot less and I am just waiting for it to fade out. I would say a good electrologist would spot it right away.

I will ask about gold probes again, she had tried it one time only and it had hurt more, she said its because gold gets hotter…maybe she can lower the settings even more, as long as the hairs release…

I also got these dry skin patches all through the winter under my chin, just below the treated area and more recently, actually on the treated area under my chin. Its just plain dry red itchy patches, but to me its another sign my skin just is tired of being messed around with. It’s something or the other, with laser its other stuff, but I have groaned enough…I just want this hair gone.

I agree Dee, I need to space out my treatments, but if so, I will have to go to another electrologist who uses flash to get more hairs cleared in the same 15 min so I can face people until such time I get to clearance. Also, I read that it may take 5-6 txs for a new area to get used to it.
I just wanted to know if maybe others have experienced similar things with their sensitive skin customers and how they may have made adjustments to avoid or heal faster…

Thanks for your advice, it really helps to have you guys to talk to.

44

You are welcome. I treat dark skin all the time with gold probes. In fact,I prefer gold for every color of skin. I just don’t get the “hotter” problem she talks about. If that is the case, then adjust the intensity and timing,or go to a larger probe size. Gold probes are more expensive, but if that is a problem, adjust your rates accordingly. We’re talking under a dollar per probe. Her probe choice is her decision and may be just one of several things that are affecting what you look like afterwards. Sensitive skin can definitely be treated successfully, but she must try other strategies to see what works best for you as an individual.

Please watch the treatment and healing afterwards so you don’t end up with any tell-tale signs that you have had electrolysis somewhere down the road. Scarring is not an option. That’s my advice! Keep us updated and good luck, hert.

Dee

45

Dee, how do insulated probes compare to gold probes in terms of impact on sensitive skin. I talked to my electrologist and she is willing to try the gold probes again and said she would lower the current further. She has used the insulated probes with a Fischer she had before she had this Hinkel but not since.

Also, I heard that blend is gentler on sensitive skin than thermolysis, is this true, and if so, would turning down the current further make it harsher on the skin rather than better?

46

Just wanted to update from my last treatment on upper lip. She used gold probes, size 2, and lowered the current further, don’t have the settings though. I got a lot less swelling and did scab but those are already falling off 48 hrs later. Thanks for your suggestions!

It felt like it took a lot longer to treat each hair, probably because of the lower current but she said the skin would get used to it after a few txs and we would be able to slowly increase the current.

Finally, I felt a lot more tugging of hairs before she started treating them. She said she does this routinely, it’s a habit she has (I didn’t remember feeling it before!) to loosen the hair from the skin because skin and hair sometimes grow around each other. Is this acceptable technique?

47

Size 2 probes are “hotter” .Is your hair really that small or could she go up to a size 3 or 4. She was right to lower the intensity if she used a size 2. Whatever modality she uses and uses well is the modality you want her to use on you. Microflash can be just as safe and gentle, but one needs to know how to use it correctly. I wouldn’t hesitate to use microflash, but if she is in her comfort zone using flash or blend, you are still going to get permanent hair removal. Do as you are and communicate with her about your healing outcome. Some people look like as if nothing has happened to their upper lip and some may exhibit little red dots or tiny scabs for several days. Everybody has a different skin type and everybody doesn’t always follow good aftercare instructions (and some are not even told about aftercare).

If you can not face people at work or on a social basis after a treatment and for a week or two later, then something needs to give. That’s where good feedback to your practitioner comes into the picture, so she can make adjustments and hopefully not excuses. You can’t expect to look picture perfect especially in the beginning because we are destroying tissue that makes hair grow, but you shouldn’t look like a pizza face afterwards for days and days either. There is a fine line as to what are acceptable temporary flaws and what are not acceptible temporary flaws after electrolysis. It is great treatment,in my opinion, if you look back to normal in under a week or less,especially in those begining treatments on a new area. I’m referring to facial areas. Body areas are always likely to scab and stay angry looking for a longer time.

The tugging issue is best answered by saying some hairs that have hard, dry, white bulbs are resistant and this sensation can be felt, but do tell her when you feel tugging as you shouldn’t feel this for the whole treatment. Nice moist anagen hairs release well, but I don’t know what the ratio of telogen to anagen hairs you have on your upper lip at the present time. That’s why I like pre-shaving personally. If you shave the area 3 days before your appointment, it helps in identifying the growing hairs verses the bummer telogen hairs. Trimming is a better option for those women that don’t like the shave stubble.

Dee

48

Hi Dee, skin looks much better on this treatment than the last. I have been waxing for years so I am assuming that all the hair that I see are anagen. How come a smaller probe is hotter than a larger one?

There is lots of thin dark hair and the coarsest ones are on the sides, she uses the same probe for all. I mentioned to her that I had heard the larger probe makes more comfortable insertions and she just said this is the only one she gets in gold.

I do find the tugging (she says she tugs in the opposite direction of hair growth) before insertion uncomfortable, I wonder if she used a larger probe, maybe she wouldn’t have to tug at all. I will ask if I get a chance.

I have used LMX on my treatments, the sides numb out real good, but towards the center, lipline and lowerlip hurts a lot. I have water constantly streaming down from eyes when we do the lower lip but we do so little of it as the upper lip is more crucial to get.

I will try and drink more water next time too. Thanks again Dee!

49

How safe is using hydrocortisone every week. I know its a steroid and its side effect is thinning the skin, which on chin and neck area is probably already on the thinner side. But it’s the only thing that helps with this insane itching on these areas after electrolysis.

I tried another brand of aloe called California Concept that my electrologist gave me for free, and it says its 100% pure fresh aloe, harvested from the very core of the leaves keeping the enzymes alive with less than 0.3% preservatives. and it has no color or fragrance. My skin turned pink and started stinging mildly right away rather than helping. SO I immediately applied the hydrocortisone on top of that (maybe I should hae washed first), that gave me some relief.

So is hydrocortisone safe for weekly use and is it normal to react adversely to aloe, whats wrong with me???

50

Here is what my PDR has to say on hydrocortisone cream

Drug Facts
Active Ingredient: Purpose:
Hydrocortisone 1% … Anti-itch
Uses:
temporarily relieves itching of minor skin irritations, inflammation, and rashes due to:
eczema, insect bites, cosmetics, psoriasis, detergents, soaps poison ivy, oak, sumac, jewelry, seborrheic dermatitis and for external anal and genital itching; other uses of this product should be only under the advice and supervision of a doctor
Warnings:
For external use only
Do not use for the treatment of diaper rash. Consult a doctor.
in the genital area if you have a vaginal discharge. Consult a doctor.
When using this product avoid contact with the eyes
do not exceed the recommended daily dosage unless directed by a doctor do not put directly in rectum by using fingers or any mechanical device
Stop use and ask a doctor if rectal bleeding occurs
condition worsens, or if symptoms persist for more than 7 days or clear up and occur again within a few days, and do not begin use of any other hydrocortisone product unless you have asked a doctor
Keep out of reach of children. If swallowed, get medical help or contact a Poison Control Center right away.
Directions:
adults and children 2 years of age and older:
apply to affected area not more than 3 to 4 times daily
children under 2 years of age: do not use, ask a doctor
for external anal and genital itching, adults:
when practical, clean the affected area with mild soap and warm water and rinse thoroughly
gently dry by patting or blotting with toilet tissue or a soft cloth before applying
apply to affected area not more than 3 to 4 times daily
children under 12 years of age: ask a doctor
Other Information:
• store at 15° to 30°C (59° to 86°F)
Inactive Ingredients: white petrolatum
Questions? call 1-800-223-0182 , Monday to Friday, 9 AM - 5 PM EST
How Supplied: CORTIZONE•10® ointment: 1 oz. and 2 oz. tubes.

51

I have been using the hydrocortisone once or twice a week, gives me enough relief that I am not climibing up the wall.

We have been using the gold needles but my electrologist doesn’t like them, she says that they don’t slide in as easy and also may be causing the increased hyperpigmenttaion (possible?) I have been seeing on my upperlip. It just looks splotchy and messy and any concealer I try to put on just flakes off because the skin is dry, I have to find some of that dermablend, is it available at CVS?

Also I had about 7-8 plugged pores last time so I went from using witch hazel only to alcohol and witch hazel alternatively. I have 4-5 this time.

We are goning to try the stainless needles again next time and see whether it causes less hyperpigmentation. Anything else we can try?

52

What kind of epilator does she use out of curiosity? I disagree with her gold probe negativism. They are definite gliders and they are NOT the cause of your hyperpigmentation. They are more pricey than stainless steel and maybe she doesn’t like that.

What kind of magnification does she wear? What size probe is she using?

I’m concerned about your skin reaction and having to use hydrocortisone all the time. Short term use should be okay, but I don’t see why you have to use this after a treatment. All I can say is there are a million excuses given to electrolysis consumers when there are problems. I just heard two funny excuses for horrible skin reaction from a potential new client today. Her last electrologist told her that she was eating too many tomato’s and other salty food and that was contributing to her swelling and redness that lasted for many days.

I can tell you, hert, that there are many electrologists that just do their job well with the best tools possible and do not need to make excuses to clients because their healing scenario is within acceptable limits so they don’t need creams and makeup to heal and hide their skin. I don’t know what is going on here, but I know I feel frustrated right now. I wish I could help you more.

Dee

53

some people say that hydrocortisone causes thinning of the skin. are pure aloe vera, witch hazel, tea tree oil, and/or ice not helping on their own?

54

Dee is on target Hert, I too favor gold over the stainless steel. The insertions are smoother.

If your tech is used to using SS and recently tried the gold because you asked her to, she needs to adjust her settings. When the electrologist changes an important variable like needle size or metal type, then the other variables need to be adjusted. Since gold is a better conductor, if she didn’t adjust her settings, you might very well be getting too much tissue trauma as the insertions on the upperlip are a bit more shallow.

You shouldn’t be having to give instructions to your tech.

55

Thanks Dee, wish I could go to this one other electrologist that mantaray sees but she doesn’t do evenings or Saturdays (only very occasionally and I work full time) and is much farther off and first open appt is 2-3 mths away so logistically just doesn’t work out.

Mine uses the Hinkel UC-2, and her probe size is 2. Her magnification power I don’t know, the one time I asked her she wasn’t sure, it’s that little rectangle set of glasses that looks like the ones on the arhinkel site
http://www.arhinkel.com/images/mags-2.jpg

She did acknowledge that all finer probes do get hotter, but she had adjusted the current down after my first upper lip tx (with SS) had a lot of swelling, she was quite willing to go to gold and also showed concern about my skin when I was there last. She gave me her nice aloe for free too, so I don’t think she is stingy or anything. She rarely uses gold so it may be a comfort thing that she thinks it doesn’t slide as easy, although she said hairs were releasing just fine when I asked. Maybe she needs to adjust current down further, it does hurt a lot. I will ask her the settings when I see her next.

lagirl, witch hazel and aloe don’t seem to help with the itchiness and the pink patches (odd thing is they are right at jawline and under the chin, and we hardly treat the chin much every week). I haven’t tried tea tree oil because I read somewhere that regular use of antibacterials makes us resistant to them over time and I didn’t think that would help with the dryness, although it may help with the plugged pores, but I am using plain alcohol for that which could be contributing to the dryness…sigh, you can’t win.

I try to remember that I have very sensitive skin, prone to dryness and weekly electrolysis is not easy for it to handle.

Arlene, you are so very right that I shouldn’t be giving instructions, it’s more like I ask questions and pose suggestions. She is very open to my feedback, which I thought was a good thing, but she is also not anal about skin reaction etc., like another lady verbalized when I sampled a tx with her. She keeps saying skin gets used to it, which is what I am hoping for also.

Having you all here to help talk about things from treatment to treatment is a such a blessing, thank you so very very much.

56

We continued with the gold probe.

Settings off the Hinkel UC 2 that are being used -

Electrolysis dial is set at 15 when current is passing through the probe. I think the markings go up to 60.
Thermolysis side is about 1.4, the markings go up past 6.
Corresponds to 3 units of lye, I don’t know how she did this calculation.

If you click on this link for the hinkel site, its the second product on the center drop down to see a picture.

57

sheesh, here is the link

58

3 units of lye? Your hair must be pretty thin. That’s not much lye for medium or coarse hair. I don’t know anything about the Hinkle U2, but the settings sound as if you have very fine hair.

Does she like the gold probe now? It’s a great probe to use for blend.

59

Yes Dee, the hair is mostly thin but corners are coarse, still not thick. I still got some swelling this time, subsiding quite a bit by now though. She just asked if we are still doing the gold and I said yes, so we continued with that. She didn’t make any comments about hard or easy insertions, she really isn’t that much of a talker :). She did ask if I had scabbed last time, and I said yes I had these real fine dots on the lower lip and she was surprised. I told her I am more concerned about the hyperpigmentation.
Also, I am totally confused about what to do with the lower lip hair, its short and fine but dark and the center fuzz is very visible coz its short and sticks out even with bleach. There is no way to get clearance of that in 20 min or a half hour, so do I not treat those and shave them?? So I am now going from waxing to shaving this area forever? Will waxing fuzz make it turn dark and thick?

60

If she has good magnification, she can see those fuzzies on the under lip. This is one area that I never do full clearance. I just pick out the longest and thickest hairs and treat them, scattering my work. You usually need a size 2 or 3 probe for these guys and the intensity needs to be lowered for sure.That’s where a computerized epilator earns it’s reputation over a Hinkle U2. The energy can be pinpointed just right so one doesn’t have to guess energy and timing levels with those useless dial machines. I wouldn’t attempt to have these hairs touched unless you can find someone skilled with awesome magnification, quality lighting and a good computerized epilator. A steady hand is very helpful as well. Waxing anything on the face is not my preference. Shaving/clipping would be better until you can choose electrologist who is experienced with this delicate area.

Dee