Questions about Tweezing, Waxing, etc...and Laser.

Hair Removal Methods Laser hair removal
1

Hello,

I used to be a forum member on Kitty’s Laser Hair Removal. I’m not sure if any of you are familiar with it, but it used to be a popular site and for whatever reason, she closed the site. Anyway, I used to post on there all the time because I was so upset with the adverse effects I had with laser hair removal (Candela Gentlelase). I have been doing laser since probably 1998 and I still go every 6 weeks. It starts of with wanting something simple done like the front of my neck. Then, I decided to take it a step further and have my forearms treated. Within 4-6 weeks of having my forearms treated, I started growing long black hairs all over my upper arms and shoulders. I mean real freak show stuff. I never had ONE hair on my upper arms and now I have a jungle. I have been treating this for so many years and also doing electrolysis. It’s mind boggling to think hwo much money I have spent to have this done every 6 weeks. I really shoudl just have it waxed and save myself the money, but I keep hearing how waxing or plucking will increase the strength of the hair and make it more difficult to remove. This basically leads to my question. When I receive laser hair removal, does it matter if I pluck additional hairs that were missed or in another growth stage? I’m assuming when you pluck the hair, the blood supply increases at the same site making the new hair more stout. Basically, I’m lasering and doing electrolysis at teh same time and trying to work down my arm. The reality is this will take 100 years, but I’m become obessive and I cannot stand the site of it. I jsut wantt o know since I’m plucking those missed hairs, when the laser hits it the next time, does it bring down the level of blood supply and make the hair maybe even more susceptible to being removed by electrolysis? If you have ever had laser, when the hair starts growing back, it’s very fine at first. After several weeks of nourishment, the hair gets thicker and longer. Maybe in the inital stage of growth after laser, it’s easier to be permanently removed by electrolysis. I know this sounds confusing and I probably should have worded this a bit more clearly, but hopefully you have an idea what I am asking. Please provide any input you may have.

Thanks,

Mike

2

a couple questions for you

  1. are you doing laser and electrolysis on the same exact areas? when you say every 6 weeks, what do you mean exactly if this is true. do you alternate electrolysis and laser every 6 weeks? it’s unclear. if this is true though, in my opinion, you’re being wasteful currently and need a better approach we can help you figure out.

  2. Are you still using GentleLASE for your treatments? What settings? What is your skin type? How coarse is the hair?

  3. Where are you located?

  4. How old are you?

p.s. to address the original issue you’re talking about, you are born with all the hair follicles you have now, but some things in life can cause to activate them to actually grow hair. for men, during puberty and also generally between the ages of 14-28 on average. Also, laser can stimulate some of them to get activated on the area you’re talking about. But it is possible to remove them with more treatments at high settings or electrolysis if they’re too fine (shouldn’t be at the same time though). We can provide more info once you answer the above questions about your situation.

btw, yes, many of the same people read that forum, however most consider this and the cosmetic enhancements one more unbiased.

3

Oh,yes, many are familiar with the now defunct ConsumerBeware site. Lagirl was being more diplomatic than I will. ConsumerBeware was like entering North Korea - say anything negative about LASER and Shelby, Kitty and sometimes Judy would push the knife to your throat. Very biased and very rude gang activity over there that was not conducive to learning or freedom of thought and expression. Who knows what happened to the site. I don’t miss it. I tried to be reasonable and fair with these people, but to no avail.

If you have gone every 6 weeks for laser treatment since 1998,that means 9 YEARS of laser! Holy cow,and people say electrolysis takes a long time. Are you related to Warren Buffett, I mean, I can’t even begin to imagine how much money you have spent and are presently spending just for hair removal.

Okay. It sounds like laser for you may be akin to waxing. Why don’t you just stay with electrolysis and finish a specific area? When the new fragile, tiny hair comes in, that’s when it is best to spend the time to clear the area with electrolysis. I wouldn’t do both modalities at the same time.

Can you post a picture, please? Have you gotten any reduction with laser that pleases you? If you have, and the hair is lighter, you will have to move on to electrolysis.

4

Hello,

So I will try and answer the questions as best I can.

  1. I first started laser in 98 for the front of my neck to alleviate irritation when shaving. I did that for several years, but did have good results. I still get hair here and there, but overall it turned out very well. Funny thing a lot of the hair did turn white. Not sure if it was the laser or just getting premature white hair. Anyway, I would say in 2002 I decided to have the base of my groin area treated and my foreams. The groin area turned out to be excellent with barely any regrowth today. However, as soon as we treated my forearms, I noticed my upper arms becaem very itchy and these little black beads started to form all over. It turned out to be hair and I was devestated. I felt so uncomfortable and embarrassed that I rarely ever wear short sleeves to this day. I’m a very active guy and work out religiously and competetive in sports, etc… Anyway, I cannot stand the site of the hair and it woudl just freak me out to actually shave my upper arm. I’m not a very hairy guy and it’s just really bizarre looking, so I have to keep treating it with laser. Also, another area that was treated with laser when I had this breakout was the two little strips on the back of your neck. For whatever reason, this idiot doctor decided to laser my neck all teh way across and I had no hair in the middle of my neck. At teh time, it was not a big deal because I had no idea that laser can stimulate hair growth for some people. So several weeks later, I start growing black long hair in teh middle of my neck. I mean it’s just so weird and frustrating. I know I keep drumming on here, but I just want to give you an idea as to what happened.

  2. So, I decided to go to another doctor for laser (who is excellent) and he continues the treatment for me. He keeps telling me how the treatments do not seem to be working and that maybe I should look at other avenues or even take an antidepressant, but I’m not a pill popper and I just want to take care of this problem. The settings initially at the first laser practive started at 20 Joules at 18mm and eventually went to 40 Joules at 12mm. It was very painful, but it did not help with the higher settings. I even think we tried 60 Joules and 8mm, but I may be wrong. I’m a 33 year-old male with fiar skin and dark hair. Basically, I’m teh idela client for this procedure. So I started going to electrolysis maybe 1.5 years ago to started treatment on my neck. I never did laser on my neck or forearms after that breakout. I was scared it might end up on my back. the electrologist just works on my neck for an hour usually once a week and we just keep trying to work down to my shoulders. The gial is to get to my upper arms and then I’m good. The reality is that it will take a lifetime to treat. My upper arms are just covered with hair and just treating my neck alone is taking forever. Whenever she moves to a lower spot on my body, I no longer treat that area with laser. I’ll make a marker so the dcotor does not touch it. Of course, money has been an issue, so I have not been able to go to the electrologist for almost a month now. I’ve spent thousands and thousands of dollars just to get back to wher I was before I even started this whole mess, so it;'s been a real bummer for me. Ooops, the courseness of my hair is moderatly thick. It’s not really course or wirely, it might be even somewhat fine, but the color is dark.

  3. I’m located in Cherry Hill, NJ.

  4. I mentioned this above, but I’m 33 years old. No one one either side of my family is hairy. Not even my grandparents or greatgrandparents. Not sure what happened here.

To sum things up, I just am hoping some cure whill come out. I have been following this topical gel SL-017 and I’m waiting for the clinical trial results for stage II to be released. I’ve read good and bad things, but I’m trying to be optimistic. I’m sick of living my life in a shell because I’m always thinking how people are going to judge me. I have always been really proud of my body because I take really good care of myself and this really changed my whole life. I’m always worried about how my shirt is hanging and if my shoulder my be exposed and they might see hair. I mean I have no hair on my chest or back and upper arm almost matches my forearm.

One other thing, I did go to an Endocrinologist and all my tests came back normal - everything. So, we ruled sugars, hormones, etc…

Any feedback would be great!

Thanks,

Mike

5

You may have reached the end of the road for laser treatment for the hair that his been treated and re-treated over and over again.

Medical side is normal. Psychological side is tipped in the direction of obsessing about hair and how people will judge you, as you have admitted, so please don’t take offense. I’m glad that you recognize that. It would be helpful if you could try and tip the scale back the other way, on your own accord and will, by positive thinking and expectations about what human beings have normally looked like for generations. People love other people for charactaristics other than hair distribution and I’m sure many people love you, too.

What kind of electrolysis does your practitioner perform? What you described sounds really too slow - 1.5 years, an hour a week!?? A picture of your neck would help. How many electrologists have you had treatment with? Many electrologists offer decent speed , good healing outcome and permanency. If you feel this is dragging along, maybe it is and can be better with someone else. I just don’t know without more information.

Interferring with the RNA in a cell may sound and be promising. No one can tell us if it will work and not cause side effects. How expensive will it be? I heard that physicians only will have to admisnister treatment…hmm. When will it available for the general market? Lots to be accomplished yet. This technology offers hope for blindness (age-related macular degeneration), those with Parkinsons, Diabetes, Huntington’s Disease, Oncology treatment, Asthma, Hepatitis C. We’re all waiting,watching and hoping for success, not only for hair removal, but for other diseases that mean life, disabilty or death. But until then, do try to keep your chin up and enjoy a beautiful life…

Dee

6

As Dee said, it would be very helpful to see some pictures.

From what you describe, laser is not and will not work for you. I suspect the hair is too fine for it. Those settings were as high as you can go, so the hair must not have enough pigment for it. Also, the fact that you have something to treat already at 6 weeks is indicative that it’s not working. it’s burning the hair a bit, but not really the root it seems. That’s what happened on my abdomen and I had to switch to electrolysis. Hair was too fine. You should concentrate on electrolysis 100%, but do it correctly to achieve the best results fastest.

To do this, you need to shave the area first and then go in for longer electrolysis treatments to get your first clearance as fast as possible. Shaving will help the electrologist only treat hair in anagen phase, so you’re not wasting time and money on treating hair that’s already dead or on the way out. Also, you should use thermolysis method of electrolysis for this as it’s fastest.

p.s. I would also consider some kind of therapy if this is really affecting your life. It sounds like it is and it’s really not a huge deal to others though it may seem like it is to you.

p.p.s. Also wondering what kind of supplements you are taking while working out. This is completely speculative, but there have been 3 other males on these forums describing similar situations and one thing they had in common is taking certain supplements for working out. I’m wondering if any of those things have potential hair producing side effects. It’s just a thought since I’m sure no research has been done there.

7

Hey, an idea.

If anyone wants to invest in RNAi technology maybe you will hit the jackpot if all these chemists and biologists actually discover a specific gene-turning-off drug to cure disease and unwanted hair. Just owning a winning stock may pay for your hair removal in the future. Take a look at the pipeline graph for the hairless gene. Who said drug companies are the bad guys?

http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=141787&p=irol-stockquote

Dee

8

Is cosmetic enhancements unbiased? I thought it was a tool for marketing laser? Try to get info. on electrolysis and tell me what you find.

9

the forums are unbiased. there are both an electrolysis and laser forum which are maintained by the same kind of people as here. actually, many of the same people are on both (Dee, sslhr, myself, etc).

10

You know, I don’t feel the bias on cosmetic enhancement forums even though,I believe it is supported by laser physicians and such. Please correct me if I am under the wrong assumption, lagirl or sslhr. The electrolysis section is given a fair shake and assessment by ‘licensed electrologist’ as long as I have been watching it. I have less time to devote to that site, but that’s fine because ‘blink’(lagirl) and ‘le’ are doing a great job anyway.

Maybe you were thinking of the Consumer Beware site, Arlene. The now defunct Consumer Beware was very biased and rude (North Korea-like) to anyone suggesting electrolysis might be a better option for their situation. If the subject of laser-induced hair growth on the face came up, you were threatened with being barred from the website. No free speech allowed.

Dee

11

they’re run by a company that manages some paid advertising for some of the laser companies. they are not really involved in the discussions at all. the only thing they asked me to do is to treat all clinics fairly and encourage consumers to sample various clinics (rather than badmouth the large chains right away since they are the large majority of the paid advertisements there). However, due to many bad reviews, I don’t even need to warn people anymore.

I participate in both electrolysis and laser sections as I do here and it feels exactly the same.

12

Dee, I did not mention Kitty’s website, nor did I refer to people’s posts at the cosmetic enhancements website.

I am referring to the actual content that is noted on the cosmetic enhancements website as information.

Whe you find the link that indicates, “Electrolysis” at the cosmetic enhancements hair removal forum website, at the time of this writing, this is the complete description of Electrolysis there:

[i]"Electrolysis

Electrolysis is an alternative to laser hair removal. Sometimes this is a good choice for candidates that have very light skin and gray hair.

The electrolysis procedure employs a needle that directs electric or radio wave energy to the hair follicle one follicle at a time. The energy destroys the follicle and the hair does not grow back.

There may be slight pain associated with this procedure. If after your consultation you find that you are not a candidate for laser hair removal electrolysis may be an alternative."[/i]

Looking at the content of the website, not referring to people’s posts, it is biased in favor of laser. No issue. However, if one tries to pass the website off as unbiased, I don’t see it.

Remember, the above quote is not someone’s post on the forum, it is information provided by the website.

If you navigate through the website, it is clear that it is a tool to market laser. Again, no issue. However, when one claims the site’s information is unbiased, as in “balanced”, well, it just aint so.

In any event, the information about hair removal at this HairTell website is superior and as an educational tool, I recommend it highly. In contrast, the cosmetic enhancements forum website has information that does not make sense.

In the above quoted informational text from the cosmetic enhancements hair removal forum webiste, can anyone spot the errors? :tired:

13

This is one of the kinder statements made about electrolysis, believe it or not. I see errors with their statement and more could be added. I’m with you on the description part of electrolysis, Arlene. It’s hard to know exactly where one is coming from when two or three statements are offered. I thought you were referring to posts on that site which I find are even handed and no one is threatened with banishment if they don’t stay in line.

Cosmetic Enhancements Forums is supported by laser companies, so how realistic is it to expect them to emphasize the benefits of electrolysis, when we are a competitor. This is why I personally show up on hairtell and CEF or anywhere one will listen. The consumer loses out if there is no balance or if there is totally wrong information, as there often is concerning electrolysis. Consumers end up wasting time, money and effort if they are led to believe a permanent hair removal modality is quick, painless and permamnent. Many loyal posters here and on CEF do a good job with keeping it real, despite what the laser companies want to write.

I am with you, now that I understand what you were trying to convey, and can spot alot of errors in many sources. I have specifically pm’ed lagirl in the past about information in her sticky concerning electrolysis statements on this forum. She and Andrea were very cooperative with corrections. I will need to go back and review that again. I hope the AEA will do more to get in the spotlight to correct misinformation, as well. The website is one source, so if anyone wants to take a look go to:

I’m sure that successful laser consumers and laser companies would not like the AEA’s description of laser either. So it works both ways.

Dee

14

My comment is simply a reaction to one who is claiming that the CEF website is unbiased; which, after extensive viewing, does not look that way to me.

It isn’t about freedom to advertise.
It isn’t about one supporting something.
It isn’t about marketing.
It is simply about comments that I see as inaccurate.

15

Noone said the website is unbiased. We stated that the FORUMS there are unbiased. You misread.

The FAQs on there (which are regularly give out to consumers) are something that I personally wrote, and are the exact copy of what’s on this site. I’m talking about this link: www.hairremovalforum.com/faq.cfm.

16

I am referring to the CEF website “informational/educational” contents, not the posting threads. Folks can say what they want, its a forum and biased or unbiased is not an issue when folks post their opinions. Again, I am referring to the CEF informational contents.

Now that I have been made aware that you (lagirl) are involved in creating the contents for that website, I understand why you are so defensive of it and why you plug it.

I was wondering if you would expand on the following link at your website.

At this time, the link shows the following:
[i]"Electrolysis

Electrolysis is an alternative to laser hair removal. Sometimes this is a good choice for candidates that have very light skin and gray hair.

The electrolysis procedure employs a needle that directs electric or radio wave energy to the hair follicle one follicle at a time. The energy destroys the follicle and the hair does not grow back.

There may be slight pain associated with this procedure. If after your consultation you find that you are not a candidate for laser hair removal electrolysis may be an alternative."[/i]

lagirl, since I “misread” as you put it, would you be so kind as to start explaining the very first paragraph from the above quote from your website? It reads: “Electrolysis is an alternative to laser hair removal. Sometimes this is a good choice for candidates that have very light skin and gray hair.” An explanation of that would be appreciated. I just don’t want to “misread” anything.

Also, lagril, I was reading about the history of hair removal at your website and noticed that electrolysis was excluded from the history of hair removal. At the time of this writing, the CEF website link omits electrolysis. If by the time the reader sees that electrolysis is included in the link below, it would have been corrected.

http://www.hairremovalforum.com/history.htm

OK then, pointing out any more problems with the contents of your website will be fine but I need to negotiate payment with your employer.

17

O.K. ladies, let’s calm down. The website is resourceful either way!

18

Arlene, are you purposely trying to misread every post? I’m being as clear as I can, but honestly, this is getting frustrating.

I am NOT personally involved in creating ANY content on that website. It is not MY website as you put it. I moderate the forum because the owners asked me since I was participating a lot already, like I do on this site. The only benefits that gives me is posting some information as sticky posts so that I don’t have to repeat the same things over and over again (and the FAQs, for the same reason) and deleting spam. That is the extent of my involvement.

Once again you’re missing the point and really are having an argument with yourself. The bottom line AGAIN is the FORUM is unbiased since the owners of the forum are not involved in it AT ALL. And it is the same type of information that consumers get on this FORUM. I believe that is all I said above and you’re still trying to prove something that doesn’t exist.

Noone said the rest of that website is unbiased. It’s not. They’re obviously selling a product, which is laser, so it won’t be unbiased. I don’t refer people to anything on there except the FAQs which I KNOW are unbiased because I wrote them. And the only reason I post that link to the FAQs is because it’s short and easy to remember for me by heart. If you had to retype the same thing over and over for 2 years, you’d prefer a shorter link too.

Btw, considering what you said above, you obviously haven’t taken the time to read any of my posts. Otherwise, you would know my stance on both laser and electrolysis much better, as Dee does. Also, if you want to be taken seriously, you should try being unbiased yourself. Being biased towards electrolysis is also not a good approach.

I hope we can put this absolutely futile discussion to rest now and go back to helping consumers.

19

Okay then, you are a moderator on the CEF.
Let them know that the history of hair removal that they have on their website is incomplete. I won’t mind you taking credit for that catch!

Closing notes:
When I give presentations about the history of hair removal, I don’t exclude laser. If I leave pertinent info. out, it would be a mystery, not a history.

Also, I never discourage a good candidate from choosing laser hair removal. I am connected to all types of hair removal.

If I see something that seems odd or confusing or unclear and it happens to be an issue that I am concerned about, I am going to address it – and I will not be waivered by spinning and insults.

20

Dear lagirl,

I reread through the posts and see where there is confusion.
The entire website is called the “Cosmetic Enhancements Forum” even though much of the website is not in the Forum style as is contains lots of information, other than postings, that is presented in an educational style.

After careful review, I still contend that the informational part of the CEF misrepresents Hair Removal by misinformation and omission of information.

When information is presented to the public as advertising, we all know its advertising and its easy to put in perspective. When advertising is presented as educational, like, “The History of Hair Removal”, at the CEF website, and it omits electrolysis, I view that as biased.

Book burning in the electronic age.