I highly recommend Ahoova Mishael at Mishael’s Electrolysis. I had sample treatments with many electrologists in Atlanta before I found her. She is highly professional, thorough, clean & caring. Most importantly, I am done & my skin looks great. Her office is at 285 & 400 in Atlanta. Her # is 404-843-9993.
I’d like to thank God and everyone else who has made it possible for this to happen today.
This is what we have always wanted to provide on this site. <sniff> It makes me misty eyed.
Thanks to you, it works for all of us.
sevenyears. a few more questions:
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30-45 minutes to clear one side of bikini line seems very quick unless you only have minimal hair you’re removing. how large of an area were you treating? how long was each monthly treatment?
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monthly treatments seem to be spaced too far apart in the beginning even if you did clear the entire area which seems impossible unless your treatments were 4-5 hours long. what did you experience after the treatment, especially in the beginning. how soon would you see new hairs appear and why did you wait a whole month after that happened to go in to get these hairs? is that what the electrologist recommended?
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going to a dermatologist that provides “all types of hair removal” won’t really give you a good unbiased perspective. doing research on these forums will help a lot more as noone has anything to gain from providing you with information.
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what is the color of your hair? how much are you removing approximately? is it coarse?
I have been curious about that “non-responder” idea. My experience has given me the idea that the people who don’t have results have either one of two things in common.
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They had poor treatment. Some hairs ARE more difficult and the electrologist must make adjustments of their settings and even their technique.
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The client was not compliant with the electrologists recommendations. We recommend when they should come in next and they can’t or don’t. We tell them “no tweezing or waxing” and they tweeze or wax. This client also might lie about the tweezing or waxing. Many times, a client will say, “I saw you 3 weeks ago,” when it was actually 3 months ago. Time gets away from us all.
Wow, Seven years of electrolysis even with monthly visits is way too long for that amount of hair. I believe that Micro-thermolysis was mentioned in one of the posts. That method is also known as Flash Thermosis. It uses high power but for only hundredths of a second, so fast epilation is possible, however because only a very small area - probe point gets heat, it also requires the most skillful of insertions. There are problems killing curved or distorted hairs with this method as it becomes impossible to get the point to the correct point at the base of the hair. However, hairs can still be treated if caught just as the hair is coming out, but any longer time frame and the hairs get distorted again. If you had been coming to me, I would have probably changed to the Blend Modality long before this. It takes longer but has a higher kill rate. The different modalities all kill by different action. Straight Galvanic by means of Chemical Distruction, Thermosis by means of Coagulation and Flash which reaches temps above 212 deg F by dessication. Some people who do not respond with one modality need to be treated with another. As far as More Hair is concerned, electrolysis does not cause more hair to grow, but any iritation can cause velous hair to progress to becoming a terminal hair and grow larger and darker. This can make one believe they now have more hair then before, but in reality, they do not. As electrology cannot make hair that was not their before. It would be nice if it did, as I know a number of men who would gladly come in order to have more hair on their heads.
Martha Montgomery
Puget Sound Electrology
I’d like to share another perspective to add to martha’s great comments: I have had excellent and timely results on clients using microflash thermolysis, especially when I use the repeat function key on my epilator. I am an ardent blend practitioner,also, depending on the hair structure and client preference, but it has not been necessary to use blend on the bikini area for my clients. After the first clearance, as long as the client comes to me every 3 weeks for a little while, there are no curved follicles to contend with and we zip/zap through the second clearance and so forth, until there is no hair left to treat. Time wise we’re talking about a total average of 15 hours spread out over one year or less. Computerization has made our job easier, not to mention, skill, special techniques and choosing the correct probe size for working on coarse hair.
Dee
Update! I have an appt on Saturday with Ahoova thanks to laserhater’s recommendation! I can’t wait to get this started again. Maybe I won’t have to wear a skirt at the beach next summer!
There were a few more quesions posted that I will answer - I’m fair skinned but have course dark bikini hair. The hair I want removed extends about 2 inches down the front of my leg from my pany line on both sides. So I originally really just wanted about 8-10 square inches on either side cleared.
I guess I got new hairs a few weeks after my treatment. I had/have lots of ingrown hairs too. My electrologist said that there was no reason to come in more frequently than once a month. 45 minutes would usually get all of the ones at the top/front of my legs. I just decided that if we focused on those first, I’d worry aobut the ones further down later
I fortunately stayed on this forum long enough to find the recommendation and as indicated above, have ditched the idea of going to the dermatologist and am going to a practitioner recommended here.
I look forward to posting again in several months with my “sucess story”!
Sevenyears,
That area can clear pretty well. The only thing I can think of is that she was keeping her voltage far to low to avoid blistering and only hitting with a single blip -enough to free the hair, but not enough to kill. That skin is notably not as dry and more sensitive than the skin just immediately south, and can have a shallower angle to complicate things, not so much though that it should throw a pro off their mark . But really, I think you will have great, quick success with the proper approach. I’m sorry you have had to deal with an ineffective electrologist. And I do place the burden on the electrologist, from what I’ve read, because there should have been no problem clearing that area. Good luck.
Dee,
This is one area to jump up a needle size would you say? Bikini is coarse, Ballet F4G’s give a nice mellow thump to these stubbornly anchored hairs and allow the bottom of the follicle to be sensed quickly.
Someone hand James a tissue
Mantaray
I like using 4’s, but in the beginning, I will use 5’s or 6’s as well. Just depends. Some of those “bulbs” are pretty big! I usually end up with 4’s at some point later on in the treatment process.
I’d appreciate a tissue as well. Just getting people to name their location can really bring about the most useful information ever brought to this board because we may actually help the confused find someone in their community. It is enough to make us all cry tears of joy when everything clicks. Sevenyears, do you have any objections to listing your location in your profile now? If you decide to do that, James and I may need someone to pass a whole box of tissues our way.
Yes, we would be indebited to you 7years if you would come back and let us know how things are going for you.
Thanks and good luck on Saturday,
Dee
It is quite possible that your hair is unable to be treated by electrolysis.
You have something to gain by that statement, now don’t you?
Your spam site attached to all your posts proves that and your statement is grossly erroneous and for your personal gain. Get your antenna up consumers and beware of the above post. Do not let yourself be confused.
When are you going to correct the information on laser being, uhhhh, almost “painless and by far the best method”? It is best not to mislead the consumer,MH.
From reading some of this thread I’m very amazed at your stamina. Seven years? After seven months I would have been very worried things were not progressing at all. First of all it sounds like your electrologist is using some form of thermolysis. For bikini line hairs this is probably not the best way to go. These hairs are usually pretty deep. Back in the 1940’s they found out that trying to treat deep, terminal hairs was ineffective. You need to go completely the other way with this. Find someone who does straight galvanic electrology for the next few sessions. You may have a problem of curved, deep follicles which will be completely unresponsive to thermolysis. The lye formed by actual electrolysis can get to the hair producing cells, even if the follicle is curved. Whatever you do you need to change electrologists. You are being plucked of hairs and money. If it is intentional or not, you are not getting your money’s worth. Tell your new electrologist your dilemma and tell them you want straight galvanic. Don’t let them give you some bull about better types of procedures or that they have better equipment than other electrologists. Don’t let them try Blend on you either since most electrologists turn up the thermolysis and almost negate the effects of galvanic by drying out the follicle. It may take you longer but if you’ve already waited seven years, what’s a few more months?
The 1940’s??? Many things have improved in the field of electrology since then.
Just curious as to whether you also use a computerized epilator? If you have never experienced the hands on art and skill of performing electrolysis with a modern epilator using special techniques and properly sized probes, you really should try it sometime. I’m not knocking straight galvanic,I know it works painstakenly slow, but I feel compelled to share with you what a lot of electrologists already know about handling this type of hair with microflash thermolysis. In short, it works as well,amazingly fast.
I don’t think you saw the part about this client not being on a proper schedule and God only knows what other important factors were missing as well to get her to the level of success she expected. Sounds like she is smarter now and on her way to success.
Update! I have an appt on Saturday with Ahoova thanks to laserhater’s recommendation! I can’t wait to get this started again. Maybe I won’t have to wear a skirt at the beach next summer!
There were a few more quesions posted that I will answer - I’m fair skinned but have course dark bikini hair. The hair I want removed extends about 2 inches down the front of my leg from my pany line on both sides. So I originally really just wanted about 8-10 square inches on either side cleared.
I guess I got new hairs a few weeks after my treatment. I had/have lots of ingrown hairs too. My electrologist said that there was no reason to come in more frequently than once a month. 45 minutes would usually get all of the ones at the top/front of my legs. I just decided that if we focused on those first, I’d worry aobut the ones further down later
I fortunately stayed on this forum long enough to find the recommendation and as indicated above, have ditched the idea of going to the dermatologist and am going to a practitioner recommended here.
I look forward to posting again in several months with my “sucess story”!
I would also urge you to read my story at the link below as I had a very similar situation to yours and got laser (GentleLASE) first and cleaned up a few strays with electrolysis. For me personally, this proved to be the best way for this area since the hair is very dark and coarse and my skin is very light like yours. I AM getting electrolysis on many other areas, but I found laser to be a great option for this specifically, given a good laser for your skin and someone who knows what they’re doing (as with electrolysis). Just something to consider. Hopefully, you’ll keep updating.
I’m going to have to apologize profusely up front for this next post but I have some things I need to get off of my chest. The current state of electrology is, sad to say, overrun with the flash thermolysis modality. The recent upswing in computerized flash thermolysis over the last 10 years is a lame attempt to compete with the rapid hair removal of laser. We can’t compete with the speed of laser hair removal and we shouldn’t be trying to either. We do, however, have a huge edge in the permanancy department. Flash thermolysis has it’s place but to rely on it exclusively is flat out wrong. Using flash for smaller, straight hairs is great and a prudent use of diathermy. Everyone has to be evaluated on an individual basis. Not everyone can be helped by a different computer setting. Sometimes a complete change in modality is the answer. There are many electrologists out there that are under the impression that every case can be treated with thermolysis and that the computerized magic box has all the answers. With published regrowth rates in the 80-90 percent range there’s a lot of plucking going on. If you are not willing to pull out your multiple needle galvanic setup now and then, if the case warrants it, you are not doing anyone any favors. Now don’t get yourself in a tizzy over that last line about multiple needle galvanic. I haven’t used mine in over a year but now and then, I do put it to use. I have everything from a computerized flash machine to old fashioned multiple needle. Without a range of equipment, I would be limited in the number and types of cases I could treat. Has everyone heard of the tortoise and hare fable? Who wins? I consider the flash thermolysis the hare and the blend/galvanic folks the tortoise. Every time I read the story the tortoise comes out on top. We should be concentrating more on what we can do better than laser not trying to compete on a speed basis. Take your time and slow down a bit. Clearing somebody fast is not what should be controlling electrology. There are some kinds of hair thermolysis just can’t treat. This original thread is probably a worst case scenario of flash thermolysis gone bad. I realize she was not on a great schedule but seven years?
No need to apologize profusley for your thoughts. All are welcome here at hairtell as long as there are no personal attacks with vulgar words of language. I feel the need to say you have a right to your opinions and reasoning and you need to run your business the way that works best for you and your clients.
I agree with some of your statements and do not agree with others.
I, too, have a multi-probe epilator. It is a Gentronics Digital Combo Epilator, Model “MC160D”. I don’t consider it old-fashioned, but rather another great modality for performing electrolysis. If anyone came to me and specifically requested the multi-probe modality be used on them, I could do it proficiently. In, fact, I think it is a fun modality to work with. Trouble is, the client is usually the one that gets worked up about how long it is taking even when I repeat that great fable about the tortoise and the hare.
Why would I use multi-probe electrolysis if I am getting timely and permanent results using microflash thermolysis? Why would I want to delay getting a client to that precious first clearance and keeping her clear until the end, so she is not having to resort to temporary methods anymore? I’m still permanantly removing hair and the 80-90% regrowth stuff is not what I’m seeing at all! On curvey hairly follicles, which I don’t see all that often, I switch to blend, still faster and as permanent as galvanic.
There is an all encompassing plan that fuses modern computerization, timely results and great skin outcome,not to mention the emotional high that comes to women and men when they see results as soon as possible. Why would I want to deny any client that outcome? I’m sold on microflash thermolysis for many reasons, even though is harder to do correctly. It works great and the clients are pleased hands down.
Likewise,if I may be redundant, I respect your opinion about all this, but there is more than one path or approach to all this hair removing. It is good to show all the cards, so consumers can gain from careful, passionate explanations from people like yourself. What you believe in and do for your clients works well for you and thanks for sharing your insights.
Dee
One last little rant before we get off the topic. This is all being typed with a smile on my face. I’m not angry in the slightest, just concerned. I’m trying to make a very important point which may change some people’s way of doing business. I mentioned the 1940’s because the laws of physics haven’t changed since then. The laws of alternating current haven’t changed since first investigated by Tesla in the 1870’s. High frequency, especially when used at the ISM frequencies approved for electrology, are very limited in their ability to spread out from the tip of a needle. The pattern will tend to crawl up the needle before a large area of treated tissue can be found at the tip. Too much energy and you’ll treat surface skin, not the follicle. Now how does this relate to hair removal? Looking at it from a scientific point it becomes very simple. Deep, terminal hairs, when treated with diathermy alone (flash or manual thermolysis) will have a very low kill rate. This is due to the limited scope of the tissue damage which can be applied before surface skin damage occurs. This is why thermolysis alone has a 80-90 percent regrowth rate. The regrowth rate quoted is also a scientific fact and can’t be changed by a magic black box with computerized controls. What you are doing when you use thermolysis on deep, terminal hairs is applying enough energy to allow the hair to be removed easily from the follicle but not enough to kill all the cells that make new hair. You’ll never know if the hair was actually killed or not since this hair will now take about 6-8 weeks to regenerate. On a subsequent clearance it will just look like new growth and you’ll now treat the same follicle again. You will be successful now since the hair is in the anagen stage. In effect, all you are doing on the first clearance is a glorified plucking with only a 10-20 percent kill rate. It is my firm belief, and the belief of the scientific community, that you must either use blend or straight galvanic if you want to perform any real work on the first clearance of deep, terminal hairs. If you plan on using thermolysis only, do your clients a favor and have them wax the hairs first and tell them to come back when the hair starts growing back. You’ll be able to clear the anagen hairs at that point using thermolysis. Do not try to get a first clearance using thermolysis since it’s been scientifically proven not to do much of anything but waste everyone’s time and money. It may put a little more money in our pockets but that’s not what this should be about. Again, not angry, just concerned. My Science Background: B.S Biochemical Pharmacology, State University of New York at Buffalo, 1983, M.S. Electrical Engineering, Columbia University, 1986
Gosh, you are really a smart person!
I won’t bore you with my humble educational background, so I’ll just get right to it… I would just be curious to know what brand of epilator you have experience with? Apilus SX-500? Silhouet-Tone VMC? Fischer? etc.? How many clients have you completed using microflash thermolysis? I love the blend as well and use it frequently. Are you a galvanic only practitioner or are you proficient at blend as well?
Most of my new clients are waxers and tweezers and the anagen hairs are ready and ripe for the taking when they first appear before me for help. Waxing is a strategy I implore some clients to do just once if we are starting out with virgin hair growth. So I agree with your hair growth points, those are good strategies and I do not keep that waxing first idea a secret from new clients because I want to get them finished as soon as feasible. It is in my interest to get them timely, permanent results. It’s good for business, but most importantly, it is good for the person who suffers with too much offensive hair.
I agree with the scientific principles you described as well, but remain unconvinced about your kill rates and abilty to destroy deep terminal anagen hairs using thermolysis. The equipment and engineering of professonal epilators have changed over the years even though the scientific basis regarding a hair follicle remains a constant. I would not be in business if I had to use an epilator produced in 1946. Same as, I would not be using a Smith Corona typewriter as oppossed to a computer word processor to write a report. There are several points that we are in unison on, but I’m just NOT seeing poor results with destroying hair in a timely manner using microflash thermolysis. In fact, my business is booming. So what am I doing wrong here in regard to modality used?
May I reiterate what I have said many times and in many ways, on this site and others, that there are three modalities listed under the term ‘Electrolysis’ and they all work and they are all practitioner dependent. Exhibiting skill is #1! Mechanics is #2. If you prefer multi-probe galvanic, then just do it and have fun. I’m sure you are very good at what you do.
Love,
Dee
Dee,
All I’m saying is ask yourself, if you use flash on anything but anagen new growth, how do you really know if you’ve plucked or not? If 80-90% of that hair grows back you’ll never know it if the client is on a good schedule since you’ll treat it on the next pass. The only way you’ll know it’s not working is a case similar to the one which started this thread. If the client waits until the hairs become terminal types and the electrologist is using flash thermolysis, she’ll be getting plucked every time. This will especially be the case if the follicles are curved at all. In that case, thermolysis on terminal curved hairs will result in almost a 100% regrowth which is exactly what we saw with this person. If the client of this thread had been treated with blend or multiple needle, she would probably have been done years ago. I am a huge fan of flash but only if you catch hair early in a growth cycle.
The client has the responsibilty to show up on schedule. The electrologist is obligated to stress what that schedule should be. The electrologist must persuade the client and underscore what the consequences are if the client chooses not to adhere to a specified schedule. In the case of the poster,“Sevenyears”, she now understands this important concept. Even if she had received blend or galvanic, are you saying she would have had success regardless of whether she stuck to an advised schedule or not?
Does straight galvanic work on telogen hairs? Are there telogen hairs present when we start work on an area like “sevenyears’s” bikini line?
Again, why would you not want to clear an area as fast as possible and then keep it cleared until there is no hair to treat? This brings real advantage to your client. If the fault lies with the client not staying on a schedule, what can you do about that? At the first consult, I tell my clients to stick close to me. I advise them on when to return. I reinforce these concepts throughout our time together. I nag and teach and teach and nag. If the client chooses not to show up, I accept no blame for their lack of success.
Now for method: It is a fact that deep, terminal anagen hairs can be destroyed on the first pass using the presently available quality computerized epilators, like the Apilus SX-500, Apilus Platinum, Silhouet-Tone VMC, etc. Hinkel and Lind would be so impressed if they were still alive. Giving your client advantage like this increases their excitement and keeps them motivated. Once the area is cleared, then the new hairs that keep presenting themselves after that first clearance are early anagen and can be deleted with microflash thermolysis, not flash, but microflash thermolysis. All works very well when the client shows up, of course.
Actually, it is inevitable for the hare to beat the tortoise, thanks to the better tools we have today, in skilled hands.
May I ask again what epilator you use for your clients? I think I’m understanding that you do all three modalities. Are you using microflash?
I have heard of great multi-probe electrologists like Barbara Leibowitz in NYC that was mentioned here on hairtell a short time back. What she does is not to be knocked or declared antiquated. I’m proud that she offers this modality with such skill. I know that it is a wonderful modality for removing hair, but honestly, I am so pleased and awed by the advantages that microflash thermolysis offers, that I would be hard pressed to offer the galvanic only modality to anyone, unless they specifically requested it. Microflash gives the fastest results from my experience and I am not seeing the 80-90% regrowth rates you cited with this technology in my practice. I’m able to treat any size hair with satisfaction.
Dee