Hi-I’m trying to convince my Mom that electrolysis will produce better results than laser, just from everything I’ve read on this website. But just because more dermatologists recommend laser, she is worried that electrolysis may not be a medically ‘safe’ way to go. I was just wondering if anyone could give me a couple facts on why electrolysis is perfectly safe and better, and why dermatologists tend to recommend laser anyway, that I can show her. Thanks so much. 
Electrolysis has been around as long as Budweiser beer, meaning it has been a service / product that the public has been purchasing for about 130 years, that’s 13 decades! A product or service dies and goes away if people are not getting something they want or need. It’s economics 101. In other words, electrolysis if has been tried and has proved itself to be true to it’s claims of PERMANENT HAIR REMOVAL for 130 years ++++.
Laser has been on the scene for about 12 years and is meant for hair reduction only. It has been CLEARED by the FDA, not APPROVED by the FDA like electrolysis. It is not effective on thin hair, no matter what the color. It is not effective on blond, red, clear, or gray hair, even if the hair structure is thick. Laser hurts and laser is expensive. To purchase and maintain a quality laser for hair reduction costs thousands and thousands of dollars and it is in the interest of the dermatologist to bring people in for laser hair reduction so they can recover their expenses and make money on top of that. Sometimes, your best interest is not the motive of the person pushing the laser, so you have to watch out for that and protect YOUR interests and welfare.
Laser works well for some body areas if you are a good candidate - right hair color, thick hair on pale skin, otherwise, electrolysis will serve you much, much better because it works on all hair colors and skin colors. Dermatologists are not bad people for recommending laser over electrolysis, they are uneducated about hair removal and are only told horror stories about inept electrologists that have not given results to clients within a year to eighteen months and have caused skin reactions beyond what is standard. There are bad outcomes for both laser and electrolysis, so your Mom has to protect you and learn as much as she can about both methods. Ask her to come on hairtell or print out some pertinent information for her to peruse. Educate your Mom. If your Mom is too busy, help her out by learning all you can about laser and electrolysis. If you go to a laser specialist, go with your list of questions. Press them good and you will impress (or perhaps annoy) both your Mom and the laser doctor/technician. This is what every good consumer shoud do and kids are consumers, too, so learn all you can! Do be polite about it though. Review the laser faq’s page in the laser forum as that will help you put it all together so you will to be on top of your game.
If you live near a modern, skilled electrologist who has continued her/his education and has come on board with the best computerized epilators and surgical magnification, who does MicroFlash or PicoFalsh thermolysis, you will be in excellent hands. Interview the electrologist just like you would the laser provider. As you sort this out, Lagirl (and others) can help you for your laser questions and I (and others) can help you for your electrolysis questions. Electrolysis may be your only hope for permanent hair removal and the best for your Mom’s hard earned money. Don’t automatically trust the dermatologists on this one because most just don’t know enough about this hair removal business.
Now, what area bothers you? How thick is the hair? What color is the hair? No detail is too small - add anything you want.
Dee
Well, that’s technically incorrect. Laser and electrolysis are both good and work well in the right hands. However, laser should only be used on dark coarse hair. You don’t mention anything about the area you’re treating or the type of hair you have. If you don’t have coarse hair, laser is not an option anyway. You can read the FAQs below with an explanation of why this is the case.
Dee, I think your post is unfair to laser. Electrolysis hurts too and it is not any cheaper than laser on small areas and is actually more expensive on large areas. So implying that laser is more expensive is incorrect and unfair in my opinion. There would be no way for me to get a 95% reduction on my underarms for $500 total with electrolysis like I did with laser, for example.
Yes, there are many laser/IPL clinics out there who are pushy and concentrate more on sales than on results. But that doesn’t undermine the great results that can be achieved with laser in good hands. There are many bad electrologists out there causing pitting, scarring, painful treatments, etc. Finding someone who knows what they’re doing is most important with both laser and electrolysis. I feel your post basically compares bad laser clinics to great electrologists, which is once again unfair. If one compared bad electrologists to great laser clinics, they could make the opposite case that laser is the way to go.
I think it would be great for this forum if we stopped doing this. Let’s be fair and compare good laser techs to good electrologists and bad laser techs to bad electrologists.
Lagirl, you know me well enough by now to know that I have made all your above points before and we are basically of one mind on this topic so you need not lecture me on specific points.
This young lady’s mother is being told that more dermatologists say that laser is the best way to go and electrolysis may not be medically safe. She asked which one was more permanent. We know what the sure bet is under all conditions, don’t we? Do I need to copy and paste every positive post I have typed here about laser when it was deserved? I just posted a thumbs up post on laser this morning. So what’s the deal?
I know you understand the benefits of laser, Dee. But I thought the assessment was slightly unfair because you only mentioned the negatives about laser and not about electrolysis. I always try to state both if I’m mentioning any. We have no idea what area this person is looking to treat. For example, she could be looking to get her underarms or bikini done, in which case laser would be hands down the best choice if the hair is dark.
There are people like Rachelle on this forum who have been getting electrolysis for several years unsuccessfully due to incompetent electrologists. And many others who complain of permanent pitting and scarring due to the same. So electrolysis is not without problems either, but you didn’t mention any of this in your post.
Specifically, I thought these parts were unfair: “Laser has been on the scene for about 12 years and is meant for hair reduction only. It has been CLEARED by the FDA, not APPROVED by the FDA like electrolysis. Laser hurts and laser is expensive.”
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I think stating that laser is “meant for hair reduction only” is misleading because I think that gives an impression that you can’t get more than maybe half removed. 90-95% is a pretty significant “reduction” in my opinion. I would say that it’s not meant to provide 100% removal because at a point some remaining hairs will be too fine, but all the coarse hair can be easily killed.
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FDA grandfathered electrolysis in. That approval wasn’t based on any official studies. So I don’t think it’s fair to use that to suggest that electrolysis is any more “approved” than laser by the government.
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Laser hurts, but electrolysis also hurts. So I don’t think it’s fair to point it out for laser and not state that the same is true for electrolysis. And I already addressed the expense part. I would argue that the opposite it true in most cases, i.e. laser is cheaper than electrolysis. Of course the fact that laser should be only used on areas and type of hair that’s appropriate goes without question.
Bottom line is that in response to this post, I don’t think we can recommend one of the other without knowing what they’re looking to treat first. That’s why I asked more questions and stated what situations each method what best for and am waiting for more information before making specific recommendations of what’s best. It already seems that this person got the impression that laser doesn’t work based on reading this forum for some reason.
Electrolysis was grandfathered in as approved by the FDA not because they wanted to respect “dear, wise old grandpa” who has been shuffling around the house all these years, but because it has proven itself beyond what any study can possibly prove after 130 years of success for permanent hair removal, so don’t make this into something that was done more as a favor for the old guy. That’s being disingenious. It simply works for all hair situations. I don’t have to be redundant and talk about laser’s benefits because I have written “books” about that over the years. I call it how I see it, good and not so good about both modalities.
If an adolescent recieves electrolysis, whether it be on facial areas or body areas, it is very true that the SENSATION WILL BE MUCH LESS than with properly applied laser, hands down. Practitioner skill, MicroFlash thermolysis or even better, PicoFlash thermolysis aasures that. You, yourself said on many occassions, if laser does not hurt, then it won’t be effective. I can say with utmost honesty that electrolysis with newer tools and skill, doesn’t have to hurt to be effective and that’s a big plus for an adolescent girl or a queasy man or woman. As someone that does electrolysis seven days a week on all ages, I can tell you that my teenage girls do fabulously well or I guarantee you, they would not be coming back for more hair removal! I can also add that many of these teens had laser and said it hurt so bad that they just couldn’t continue with laser and THAT’S WHY THEY ARE trying ELECTROLYSIS. I don’t think I have misled the poster in any way. I live through these cases because I remove hair for a living. I am in a unique position to see what’s going on on both sides of the fence (laser and electrolysis). I hear the stories and I repeat the stories on this forum and others. I think I clearly stated what the best scenario she could expect IFFFFFF she got electrolysis with certain tools and a modern electrologist using specifically, the newer forms of thermolysis (MicroFlash and PicoFlash).
I asked before you asked what her areas of concern were,her hair color, the structure??? and that implied clearly that with everything that was said we would attempt to to pinpoint and advise her better if we knew what her areas of concern were. You know how I think because we have been doing this a long time together on hairtell and I will go ahead and assume that you are not calling me out on being biased, untruthful or territorial.
For Holly and Mom here is some base information about laser hair reduction from our “dear” government agency the FDA. This will start your education. I may come back and add to this thread, since I’m on the run right now. Lagirl and I are in agreement about the two best options for permanent hair removal/reduction, but we talk it out in this public forum on purpose (not with private messages), when it’s necessary, so YOU can put it together to make an informed decision. Best advise: Whatever you do, choose a good practitioner that understands and loves their job.
Dee
This needs to be shown and repeated often, straight from the FDA’s sight on hair removal:
[color:#009900]HAIR REMOVAL
The popularity of laser hair removal has increasingly grown, prompting many laser manufacturers to conduct research and seek FDA clearance for their lasers for this indication. The market is growing so quickly that FDA cannot maintain an up-to-date list of all laser manufacturers whose devices have been cleared for hair removal, as this list continues to change. To learn if a specific manufacturer has received FDA clearance, you can check FDA’s Website at http://www.fda.gov/cdrh/databases.html under the 510(k) database. You will need to know the manufacturer or device name of the laser. You can also call FDA’s Center for Devices and Radiological Health, Consumer Staff, at 240-276-3103, fax your request to 240-276-3151 or send an e-mail to: [email protected].
Manufacturers should be aware that receiving an FDA clearance for general permission to market their devices does not permit them to advertise the lasers for either hair removal or wrinkle treatment, even though hair removal or wrinkle treatment may be a by-product of any cleared laser procedure. Further, manufacturers may not claim that laser hair removal is either painless or permanent unless the FDA determines that there are sufficient data to demonstrate such results. Several manufacturers received FDA permission to claim, “permanent reduction,” NOT “permanent removal” for their lasers. This means that although laser treatments with these devices will permanently reduce the total number of body hairs, they will not result in a permanent removal of all hair. The specific claim granted is “intended to effect stable, long-term, or permanent reduction” through selective targeting of melanin in hair follicles. Permanent hair reduction is defined as the long-term, stable reduction in the number of hairs re-growing after a treatment regime, which may include several sessions. The number of hairs regrowing must be stable over time greater than the duration of the complete growth cycle of hair follicles, which varies from four to twelve months according to body location. Permanent hair reduction does not necessarily imply the elimination of all hairs in the treatment area.
FDA does not make comparisons between systems or how well or safely they work compared to another company’s system. FDA does not recommend one laser system over another.
Lasers cleared for body hair removal are also cleared for facial hair removal. [/color]
Additional Information on Removing Hair Safely
As you said, Dee, we ARE in agreement. I just felt what you stated wasn’t fair to laser, so I defended those points. I think if you read your first two paragraphs over again, you’ll see what I’m talking about.
In terms of pain, everything is relative. Laser hurts the most on the very coarse DENSE hair. But it also lasts a very short amount of time. One underarm takes 1 minute. On the other hand, I have had electrolysis with one of the best machines that you’re talking about, Apilus, with three different electrologists. None of those were painless, though I’m sure they’re a lot less painful than older machines. But most importantly, that pain lasts for long periods of time. To do one underarm, one probably has to spend at least 2-4 hours on the table bearing that pain. I would argue that many people would take 1 minute of slightly stronger sensation over 2-4 hrs of slow relatively painful sensation. Also, if someone is that sensitive, they can use a numbing cream with either method, which makes both even more bearable.
In terms of FDA clearance or approval, I don’t think it’s that relevant. I can understand using that information on its own to convince those against electrolysis or skeptical about it, but I don’t think it’s justified when comparing to laser. For example, we both know that treating underarms or bikini with dark coarse hair with laser is faster, cheaper, and as permanent, but FDA approvals don’t indicate any of that. So I don’t see the point of bringing that up, unless we know for a fact this person needs electrolysis only and we need to provide them with all relevant information.
Either way, I think we’ve given the OP more than enough information to work with now! Haha. Probably more than they wanted.
Andrea had something on the “Electrolysis was Grandfathered in” Cunnard posted on one of her many pages. In short, the proofs for Electrolysis were made with the then appropriate authorities at the time (mostly scientific and medical researchers, with peer review). Since Electrolysis and its proofs PREDATES THE FDA, there was no question of electrolysis’ effectiveness when the FDA was born. In fact, the proofs of electrolysis was done and accepted well before the American Medical Association was incorporated in 1897.
Have there been FDA commissioned studies to prove electrolysis? No, they saw no reason to waste money on that backwards research of something that was heavily opposed in the 1860’s, but proved its point well before 1920. Does that mean it was "Grandfathered in with no proof offered? NO!
I now go back to my “zipped lip” status
I have never claimed painless, lagirl, for either modality, but I will come very close to declaring much, much, much less sensation with the new Apilus Platinum or the Apilus Pure. That’s the kind of electrolysis I would wish for anybody in this day and age, especially for an adolescent girl or 20 something female. It’s just that good, even for the underarms, bikini line,etc. and I said so when I promoted PicoFlash thermolysis.
I do think the FDA statements are relavent. If they change the wording because new data has been discovered in the twelve years since laser hair reduction was cleared by the FDA, I will eagerly copy and paste that information, in the spirit of truth-seeking. But for now, the terms “approve” and “cleared” mean something just as the terms permanent hair removal and permanent hair reduction have differenet meanings and outcomes. I believe the wording should be conveyed precisely to the consumer.
It is some dermatologists, who wittingly or unwittingly, help promote laser hair reduction falsly. Just in my little part of planet, you wouldn’t believe the stories that are told to me by patients who were told they need laser hair removal for their upper lip, for example, when they have very light accelerated peach fuzz. Guess what? They fall for it and then fail because they trusted the good doctor. It didn’t work and then they come to me wanting discounts because they already spent a lot of money on laser. If you would like, I can write about more shameful examples and I’m only one electrologist that gets these ex-laser clients. So words do mean something and this poster’s Mother believes what some dermatologist told her about the evils of electrolysis and wonders of laser. I know you have no control over this nonsense, but it was not my sole intention to glorify laser, the dermatologists and laser reps already do that quite well. My role for this particular post was to point out the positive’s for electrolysis. She asked and I answered honestly. If she returns, then perhaps we can proceed to the next step after she answers the questions about area of concern, hair color and hair structure. But, maybe she won’t want to enter the hornets nest by risking another question 
Let’s hope she responds!
I have been getting sparse hairs cleared on the bikini area with microflash on the Apilus now for a while and I would say that it’s definitely painful, and I’m only on the table for 10-15 mins now. Personally, I prefer 10 mins of laser pain once every 2-3 months, which is enough to clear the entire bikini area that I wanted. It would have taken me 8-10 hrs at minimum just to get that same area cleared with electrolysis. It would have been more expensive and a lot more painful just due to the length of treatment. Thinking back on it, if I would have gone that route, I would have definitely had to use a numbing cream, which I never used so far for any of my laser or electrolysis treatments.
In terms of FDA, I don’t think and didn’t say it’s irrelevant altogether. I just don’t think it’s relevant to use it as a way to propose that laser doesn’t achieve as permanent of results as electrolysis, because I think we all agree that it does. I have proof in results and pictures and I know you’ve seen enough success stories to believe this too.
I quickly read through the responses and didn’t see an answer to this one. In my opinion, dermatologists recommend laser because they provide it, or their friend provides it. They also seem to know very little about electrolysis, since clients don’t disclose successful treatments to anyone.
I would say most dermatologists don’t know anything about laser or IPL and I wish they just didn’t say anything at all when asked instead of spreading misinformation.
As someone who has performed electrolysis in multiple dermatologists’ offices, I have observed…the older the dermatologist, the more likely he/she will refer to electrolysis over laser. The older docs know what is tried and true. The younger ones go for the newest gadget on the block, whether it works or not.
I have written bullit point style one page letters to family doctors and dermatologists when I get whiff of their ignorance on laser or electrolysis issues. Doctors can’t be expected to know everything after all. I get feedback from my clients that they were guided to laser because their doctor told them that it’s better than electrolysis because they are reading this in their journals or are being bombarded by the laser industry. They find out that is not always the case, eventually. It’s a real problem and that’s why I keep hanging around hairtell trying to keep things real, but this hype stuff is really hard to combat.
Thanks for your input Barbara and Choice.
I quickly read through the responses and didn’t see an answer to this one. In my opinion, dermatologists recommend laser because they provide it, or their friend provides it. They also seem to know very little about electrolysis, since clients don’t disclose successful treatments to anyone. [/quote]
Ah, it reminds me of an old saying, “It is hard to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on him misunderstanding it.”
Electrolysis has no Ex-Price-Is-Right Models traveling the country wining and dinning doctors and promising bonuses for 25 or more referrals in the next 30 days and I don’t know of any doctors servicing a $3,000 a month debt payment for their electrolysis room in their practice.
I prefer word-of-mouth testimony. Non-internet and first-hand only. That is as closest to the truth as you will get without doing it yourself. But I know that is hard to come by, you don’t usually talk about removing your mustache over lunch with friends. The internet is a great place for research, but also a great place for people to attempt to mislead you, or provide you with misinformation.
I’ve used both methods of hair removal. And I can personally attest that laser does work. I can also personally attest I have talked to other people face-to-face who have received laser and they have had successful results. It seems to depend on skin type, hair color, type of machine, and the training of the operator. If you match all of those things, you are absolutely nuts to pay an electrologist to remove those hairs when you could get it done for far cheaper.
Electrolysis has it’s place don’t get me wrong. Laser didn’t do anything for my light hairs, nor did my laser operator claim that it would.
When I visit this site and I see the electrologists who monopolize the forums, discrediting laser using generalized statements; it makes this site less credible.
hollym:
I think you will have a better understanding of why dermatologists tend to recommend laser hair reduction over electrolysis after reading this thread. There is a lot of credible, heartfelt expertise here.
Be assured that electrolysis is medically safe and the 130 year record of results proves that. Laser and electrolysis are the only two methods for permanent hair reduction/permanent hair removal available today. Electrolysis can remove any structure of hair (thick or thin) on any color of skin for any color of hair. Laser does better for coarse, dark hair on lighter skin. It cannot “see” finer, lighter hairs.
I’m sorry this turned into a long-winded adult debate that crushed your very simple questions. Good luck sweetie, with whatever decision you and your Mother make.
Dee
Hi!
So very sorry for the delay in response, I was out of town for awhile. Thank you so much for all your helpful answers and advice. I have pale skin and am looking to remove dark hair on the upper lip and chin. Right now I do a combination of waxing and bleaching, but my hair is really stubborn and grows back really fast and I probably spend about 4 hours a week maintaining it, and am looking for some way to avoid doing all this stuff in college. Some of the hair is more thin, but the parts I usually wax could probably now be considered coarse. I also have pretty sensitive skin, because it often scars and scabs after waxing but then quickly goes away. I’m not sure if the hair may be due to some hormonal imbalance, because I have this problem in other areas too, but from what I’ve read it seems that if done right electrolysis can still work in this case. I did a little research on electrologists in my area and got a recommendation on this site on someone good who is relatively nearby, who I will probably call if my Mom and I decide I want to go that direction. Again, thank you so much for the help, I really, really appreciate it.
You are very welcome.
I hope you and your Mom make the best decision, so you can get this behind you.
You stated that you hope electrolysis can still work in your case. ELectrolysis will work in ANY case, when performed properly by a skilled professional electrologist. That is a fact, not an opinion. Now that you have offered specifics about your chin and upper lip being your areas of concern, I would highly recommend electrolysis for you - not laser. It will take about 9-12 months, but you will look finished after your first one or two? appointments, but you must keep going as those hair growth cycles click in. No need to wait for or hope for shedding to occur, as needed with laser, as each hair is treated and then lifted out immediately.
I will stress once again that you need to find someone who is skilled that can do this speedily well. Most of my teens need between 8-15 appointments spread out over 9-12 months. Each session lasts 15-20 minutes. Cost ends up being under $500 spread out over a year. That is specific information as relates to my practice, but I think this may match what many professional electrologists do for their clients as well. I’m saying this without benefit of seeing a picture of your problem. I am relying on your verbal description and knowing what the hair patterns of teenage girls look like. People like specifics and that as close as I can come to being cautiously specific.
Come back if you need any help.
Dee
Thanks for all the help-we scheduled my first electrolysis appointment for this Tuesday, with an electrologist recommended from someone on this site. I usually use Proactiv (acne face wash) on my face and wanted to make sure it was okay to keep using it as I do electroylsis. Also, I’ll want to keep bleaching in between sessions and I think I’ve read that this is okay? I’ll probably ask the electrologist on Tuesday, but wanted to see if anyone had any opinions on this, because you have all been so helpful. Thanks! I’ll post how the first treatment goes on Tuesday.