Underarm LHR (Skin type V)

Hair Removal Methods Laser hair removal
1

I am an Indian female with skin type V (my skin is light brown). I am thinking of getting my underarm hair treated with laser and thought i’d start a thread regarding my treatments and progress. I’d like to do my bikini too, if i have success with the underarm area. I tried laser a few years ago on finer hair, but unfortunately didn’t do my research well and it was not effective.

I was wondering if there are any indians on this board who have had success (or not had success) with this area.

I have 2 consultations lined up. The first is with a place which has the GentleYag. I was thinking of getting test patches done at 20, 22, and 24J at 18mm. lagirl (or anybody else), do you think this would be a reasonable request?

I’m not sure which Nd:Yag laser the other place has.

I would appreciate any feedback and I will update regarding my consultations.

Thank you.

2

I have had 2 consultations so far:

  1. The first place had a GentleYag. They only had the 12mm spot size (not the 18mm) and it was set to 50ms (she said this could not be changed). I had test patches done at 26, 30, and 32J (max joules for the 12mm spot size was 60). I didn’t experience much pain and my skin didn’t react at all (no redness). The lady said she wouldn’t go above the 32J that day because she wanted to make sure my skin was okay. It’s been 5 days and the hair has started falling out if I tug on it a little.

  2. The second place was very strange. She said she had a Yag laser - Grade 4 medical laser (that was all the information i could get out of her regarding the brand). The spot size was tiny - like the tip of a pen. She said that this allowed her to use higher currents on dark skin as she could focus the energy on each hair. They charge by the hour and she said this method was best, but that no one used it because it takes longer (she said 2 hairs/second). I really didnt feel comfortable with the lady, so i wasn’t game enough to have a test patch done. Has anyone heard of this?

I’m pretty happy with the first place, but i think i might call back and ask if she can do some test patches at a higher setting. The fact that i didnt feel much and that my skin wasn’t even red makes me think she can probably go higher without affecting my skin. I really want to make sure that the highest setting that is safe on my skin is used. I know underarms and bikini are not large areas, but I spent over $2000 on LHR in the past and had no improvement at all so i want to be sure this time.

3

All medical related lasers are generally Class IV lasers based on FDA classification. This is due to the power they generate. There are a lot of YAG lasers used for other things. For example such as vein removal. What this sounds like is that they are trying to use a YAG designed for something else for laser hair removal. The idea of treating only one or two hairs at a time makes sense if you are doing electrolysis but not if you are doing laser hair removal. In fact, there have been good studies showing that spot sizes smaller than 7-10 mm in width are not large enough to treat hairs because they do not penetrate effectively deep enough to target the base of the hair.

There is a more philosophical issue here. When everyone does something a certain way using standard techniques and equipment there usually is a good reason for it. Then you run into someone who does things very different and their reason is that no one else does it because of (fill in the blank). That’s when you should be very skeptical. Sometimes they are right but usually they are not. I would suggest that in this case the idea that they do it this way but no one else does because it “takes longer” is not a good enough reason for why no one else does it that way. Especially when they are charging by the hour.

4

I would check out a few other places with the GentleYAG. See the Candela website and use the provider search there with your zip code to find more places in your area with that machine. If not, the first place sounds ok. But I would check out a few others too.

5

Thanks for your feedback lagirl! My thoughts about the second place were similar to yours. I figured that if it was something i hadn’t heard about before, it probably wasn’t the best method.

I live in Sydney, Australia, so i haven’t been able to search for places using the Candela website. I’ve tried the common search engines too, but that wasn’t helpful either with regards to finding places that used the GentleYag.

I was just wondering about the 50ms, which was fixed on this machine. Do you thing this is an okay setting? Also, how high should i be aiming for in terms of joules? I know this is highly dependent on skin, but would high 30s or 40J be enough to be effective, in your opinion? I asked the lady how high she goes on that machine on people with type V skin, and she said up to 40.

Thanks again for your all your help.

6

on GentleYAG, there are 3 elements: spot size, pulse, and joules. How high the joules go depends on the spot size being used, which is variable (what is the highest for your particular skin type is a matter of opinion based on previous experience - not a rule. it varies.). Also, 50ms should be variable if the spot size is changed. The basic theory is that the higher the joules, the lower the pulse, and the higher the spot size they can use without those settings burning your skin, the better.

I believe there was someone who posted a recent success story here from Sydney. You may want to run a search and check out his clinic. (I think the name was samuel104, but not positive and the laser used was LightSheer diode may be ok on you).

7

Thanks lagirl, i have searched for the poster you mentioned, but had no luck. The only success story from sydney i was able to find, was using the Gentlelase.

Since my last post, i went to the first place to try test patches at higher settings:
Clinic: Avana (Parramatta clinic)
Machine: Candela GentleYag
Pulse: 50ms
Spot size: 12mm
Joules: 36J, 38J
Area: underarms

This treatment was a lot more painful and some of the hairs came out of the follicle immediately. My skin was very sore for a while and swollen. Even a week later, there’s some tenderness in the centre where the 38J was used, but no visible skin changes. Is this unusual?

I also went to trial a diode laser, as lagirl suggested.

Clinic: Splash (Pennant Hills clinic)
Machine: Lightsheer diode
Pulse: 100ms
Spot size: she said 1cm(2) (so i guess 10mm?)
Joules: 22J
Area: underarms

Again this was painful, and she used the rolling method. I’m not sure i’m happy about the 100ms and the method used. Also, i had some red raised areas develop a few days later.

A few days later, i went back to the Splash clinic to have the rest of that underarm treated. A week later i have some red tender areas (kind of like large pimples - i’m not sure if these are blisters), but they seem to be improving.

So, in summary i have my left underarm done using the Gentleyag highest setting 12mm, 50ms, 38J) and my right using the lightsheer (10mm, 100ms, 22J).

I’m going to compare the results, but i think i will probably end up staying with the Gentleyag, because i’m not happy with the reaction i had after the lightsheer, and i’m a bit concerned about my skin.

lagirl, do you think i can expect results with the gentleyag at 36 or 38J?

Sorry about the very long post.

8

Thanks for such a detailed post. This really helps. The settings on the GentleYAG are good, but it seems that it may be just a tad much for your skin. Redness is ok for a few hours, and raised follicles are normal for a few days. However, bumps and blisters are not. I would ask them to look at the reaction you’ve experienced and adjust the settings. Maybe they can use the 15mm spot size and lower the joules to 28-30.

LightSheer seems ok on settings, but they have the 10mm machine, not the latest 12mm. Also, 100ms is on the high end as you know. The most bothersome is that they use gliding which has a lot of potential to miss spots.

I agree with your assessment to stick with GentleYAG and also decrease the joules a bit.

Let us know how shedding goes in 3 weeks.

9

Thanks lagirl. The bumps and blisters were with the diode machine (even though the pulse was 100ms).

With the gentleyag, my skin looks fine a week later. There’s just an area of tenderness in the centre of my underarm where 38J was used.

Unfortunately, they only have the 12mm spot size on the gentleyag and it is pre-set to 50s, so the only thing i can ask them to adjust is the joules. I think i will stick with 36J for my next treatment.

10

Ah, I see. Well, now you know for sure you’re too dark for LightSheer diode. Sounds like you will have great results with GentleYAG. Do come back and report back to us on your progress.

11

Hi. Thought I would update on my progress. I had treatments done about 8-9 weeks ago (a combination of test patches - details are in an above post). In summary i had my left underarm done using the Gentleyag highest setting 12mm, 50ms, 38J) and my right using the lightsheer (10mm, 100ms, 22J).

My left underarm:

  • I had some shedding and a lot of pepperspots for a few weeks following treatment.
  • Currently there is less hair there (but i understand that it has only been 9 weeks) and my skin is fine

My right underarm:

  • I had quite thorough shedding and no pepperspots. However because the rolling method was used, i had many missed areas in the form of lines
  • In addition to this, I had blistering which then led to hyperpigmentation (i develop pigmentation very easily - pretty much after any skin trauma, eg, scabs)
  • I think I have less regrowth on this underarm, but i also have hyperpigmentation
  • I think the diode is definitely not safe for my skin even though the skin is light on my underarms

Next treatment:
I have booked a treatment with the GentleYag. I think i will ask them to use 36J (the 12mm spot size and 50ms pulse is fixed). My only concern is that my right underarm has developed pigmentation, so i think i’ll ask her to use a lower setting - maybe 32J. What do you think lagirl?

I’m also going to get an extended bikini laser treatment done (including around the perineum and perianal area). I am very nervous about this!!!

I have a question for lagirl (or any other helpful person): I understand the concept of joules and pulse, but i cant understand why a higher spot size is more effective on hair? This place only has the 12mm and i havent been able to find a clinic in sydney which uses the GentleYag with a higher spot size.

12

GentleYags have an adjustable spot size. Every clinic should have the 15mm and 18mm “heads” for the machine. It just sounds like they don’t want to use the higher one.

You can search sslhr’s posts on details on its significance. It matters in terms of depth of penetration. If they use 18mm, the max is 30 joules. It can help avoid missed spots too since the “head” of the laser is bigger. And the treatment would be faster. My feeling is that they’re afraid of burning clients so they choose not to use it and go with “safer” settings instead. You should still get results at 12mm for the hairs at certain depth. I believe the pulse goes as low as 5ms on this machine.

There was someone on the forum who posted about getting great results in Sydney I believe a little while back. Maybe you can find it and the clinic recommendation.

13

Thanks lagirl! Your knowledge and willingness to help is much, much appreciated!

I had another treatment today. Details are as follows:

Area: Underarm (#2), bikini (#1)
Clinic: Avana (Parramatta clinic)
Machine: Candela GentleYag
Pulse: 50ms
Spot size: 12mm
Joules: 36J (underarms), 28J (bikini)
Pain during treatment: painful but tolerable, particularly the underarms in the centre where the hair is most dense
Post-treatment reaction: my skin was red for a while, but now, a few hours later, it’s fine

Cost: $150 underarms; $250 bikini; 50% off for first treatment. total was $200.
That is expensive compared to other clinics, but because of my skin, i didn’t have any other options.

Issues/questions:

  1. The first time i had my underarms treated at the same settings, my skin was really sore and I had to hold my arm out at right angles to my body for an hour or so. The area was also swollen. I cannot understand why that was not the case this time if the settings were the same. I’m not complaining, but i just find it unusual.

  2. The lady didn’t use compression (as in, she did not push the head of the laser into the skin, but rather just gently held it on the skin with no pressure). I know compression is important with the lightsheer, but does it matter with the GentleYag?

  3. I wasn’t impressed with the technician’s knowledge, but as the clinic will only use the 12mm spot size with pulse 50ms, there wasn’t much to adjust and as i’d had the test patches i thought it was safe (obviously i’d much prefer a more knowledgable technician, but i have been unable to locate another clinic with a Yag machine)

  4. She said we’ll go up to 30J on the bikini next time, but if i need to return for any missed patches i might ask her to test me at 30J,32J and possibly 34J. I wished i’d done that today, but never mind. Given the fact that they wont adjust spot and pulse, what do you think of these settings otherwise?

14

In regards to your first question, there could be several reasons:
#1. Has there been any sun exposure to your under arms?
#2. Have you been using any products on your under arms that may contain Glycolic acid, Retin A etc.? (The reason being is that products containing these substances can make the skin more photo sensitive)
#3. Has the density of the hair reduced significantly? (If the hair has reduced a lot in density and coarseness, it naturally means the light produced by the laser won’t react as violently with the hair, thus less trauma to surrounding tissues)
#4. Or it could simply be that your skin is becoming aclimatised to the laser (although I’m not sure how likely this is)

In regards to the technicians knowledge it’s not great that she doesn’t know enough to establish whether you were suitable for bigger spot sizes and so on, although as long as the treatments are safe and effective just stick with her and keep a look out for anywhere else that may appear to be better. I did the same in London and eventually came across someone who used a good laser and has some great skills and knowledge (although I know it’s easier said than done in Sydney).

Your settings appear to be quite good, just always be cautiaus when increasing settings, especially if your increasing them quite a bit. Letting them do the touch ups on those settings is a good idea, as it means it will only be little areas being treated and if your skin doesn’t agree with it it won’t be so catastrophic.

I’ll leave it to sslhr and the others to embark on the question about compression, as they would be able to answer it best. Hope this has helped.

Many thanks,
Benji

15

GentleYAG doesn’t require compression. This is only for LightSheer. All machines are used differently.

Benji addressed your first question well.

In terms of settings, those are a bit low on joules considering the lower spot size and average pulse. SSLHR should be able to help point out the max on 12mm, 50ms. I’m not positive, but I think it’s around 50j. However, for a type V skin, these are probably pretty good.

Do let us know how shedding goes.

16

Thank you Benji boy and lagirl.

With regards to the decreased reaction on my underarms, the only thing i can think of is that the reduced hair density led to a decrease in the skin’s reaction (although i think it was just as painful - but this is difficult to compare because my last treatment was 10 weeks ago)

lagirl, the maximum on the 12mm is 60J (according to the previous technician i saw). I think the 36J on the underarms is pretty good, as some hairs were jumping out of the follicle as the laser was going off and today (1 day later), i can tug the hairs out.

I agree that 28J might be on the low side, so if i have any touch ups that need to be done, i’ll get them done at higher settings as benji boy suggested. I’ll report back on how shedding goes in a few weeks.

As you suggested benji boy, i’m keeping a look-out for any other places with a yag laser…and hopefully some better skilled technicians!

Once again, thanks for your input.

17

I have been doing some more research on the net and came across a post by sslhr on another forum:

“Now as to the GentleYag. Max on a 18 mm is 30 joules, but this is a function of the machine power and pretty low. We never use an 18 mm spot on a yag, except perhaps for a man’s beard due to density. Max with the 15 mm spot is 44 joules. I personally believe that 20 joules on a YAG is almost worthless. We actually have treated people with multiple treatments at 20 joules on a yag in an effort to promote collagen build up and have seen no hair removal effect. And the same goes for 24 joules.”

sslhr, I hope you don’t mind me quoting you - if you do, or if you feel this is taken out of context, please let me know and i will remove it.

I was hoping sslhr could comment on my settings ie, 12mm spot, 50ms pulse and 28J/36J (i think the 28J is probably very low) for areas underarms and bikini? I was thinking a higher spot would be a better idea and i’ve been on the lookout for a place with a yag and willing to use a higher spot size, but if this is at the expense of joules, maybe i’m better off sticking with the 12mm?

Unfortunately, I have not been able to find one success story regarding Yags on darker skin people and i have no guide as to what settings i should be aiming for to obtain good results.

I’d really appreciate any input from sslhr as you seem to be the most well-informed person i’ve come across regarding laser hair removal and i would value your opinion.

18

Its been 9 weeks since my last treatment. The details of my treatment are in an above post.

Underarms: Most hair shed by 3 weeks after treatment. Currently a lot less hair at this stage and what is there seems somewhat finer

Bikini: I think i was really undertreated at 28J on the Gentleyag. Not all hair shed even after 8 weeks (although it didnt grow either - just remained as stubble). There is less hair currently, but its only been 9 weeks. I think the treatment was pretty much to no effect.

I found another clinic with a Yag laser and went for a consultation and test patch today
Clinic: Neutral Bay Dermatology and Laser Clinic
Machine: Cutera Coolglide
Spot size: 10mm
Settings: Underarms - 25ms pulse, 57J
Bikini - 30ms pulse, 57J

This clinic is more expensive. The technician seems slightly more knowledgable than the other clinics, but still not up to a standard that i’d like. I was trying to get her to lower the pulse to 15 0r 20ms, but she wouldnt.

My options now are to get my next treatment at Avana on the GentleYag:
12mm spot, 40J, 50ms pulse
price: around $350 (for underarms and extended bikini)

or at this clinic on the Coolglide:
10mm spot, 57J, 25ms pulse
price: around $500

Any suggestions? These are the only 2 clinics in Sydney which i’ve been able to locate who use a Yag machine.

19

The hair that remained as pepperspots was treated effectively. You’re underestimating your results. It wasn’t an ineffective treatment. Those settings are also not extremely low. They’re average. It sounds like you can handle higher settings, but those weren’t bad, just average. If the hair is not growing as usual, it was affected.

40j, 12mm is max on GentleYAG. So even with 50ms, those are high settings. Btw, if you can handle both of these settings fine without any side effects, you’re probably light enough for GentleLASE.

The Coolglide settings are good and high as well. Either option should be ok. It’s probably time for another treatment at this point at 9 weeks.

20

Hi lagirl. The max on the Gentleyag with a 12mm spot is 60j (according to the technician). I think 40J may be the max on the 15mm spot.

I think i’ll have one more treatment on the GentleYag and see how i go. I went in for a touch up after my last treatment and tried 40J for the underarms and 38 joules for the bikini. So i think i will have my next treatment at these settings in about a weeks time. I will update on my progress.